Liberal Democrats Making it so Nobody Wants to be a Police Officer

There is no reason to vilify the police.
To be able to retire at 45, are you military, police. Got your twenty and retired.

If your ex-police than you know the comments in this forum are off the wall:
“Brown was poor and the cop killed him” really?
“You think if Brown was rich the cop would have killed him”. Yes, if he ran toward the officer like Brown did.
“Cops don’t protect you”. As much as possible they will protect you. How many cops died rushing into the world trade buildings to help people.
“Cops protect and serve the government and very rich”. Absurd if the statement only applies to the rich.
 
"There is no reason to vilify the police." Tk #61
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?
You haven't included a quotation in this post, so I can't determine the context you'd intended.

- Do you think I have vilified the police?

- Do you think "they" have vilified the police"? If so, who's "they"?

But I challenge you to live in NYC, or Newark, NJ and say that.
The statistics I've read indicate Blacks in particular and minorities in general are targeted by the police in numbers disproportionate to the population.

I gather if police treated them as equals, such minority opinion might more closely mirror the attitude of Whites toward police.
"If your ex-police than you know the comments in this forum are off the wall:" Tk #61
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It's a recreational current events BBS, reflecting the opinions of those with enough spare time on their hands to contribute.

It's fairly easy to profile posting members. Their vocabulary, their grammar, their syntax, and their logical / political consistency provide indications of their region, their socio-economic background, and their education level.

I don't read such posts for information, as much as I do to sample what others are thinking.
“Cops protect and serve the government and very rich”. Absurd if the statement only applies to the rich." Tk #61
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?
"You take the king's shilling, you do the king's bidding."
Some police are loyal to their oath.
Some police are loyal to their chain of command, whether that command chain is law abiding, or as crooked the Gordian knot.
Some COPs are mainly out for themselves. Their methods are common, carrying a "drop knife" with them on duty so if they shoot an innocent person they can plant the "deadly weapon" on the corpse, and claim self-defense.
Collecting drug bust evidence and selling as a drug dealer is also fairly common. It's yet one more reason to end the Drug War.

It is said that power corrupts, but actually it's more true that power attracts the corruptible. David Brin
 
Tkaffen said:
There is no reason to vilify the police.
To be able to retire at 45, are you military, police. Got your twenty and retired.

If your ex-police than you know the comments in this forum are off the wall:
“Brown was poor and the cop killed him” really?
“You think if Brown was rich the cop would have killed him”. Yes, if he ran toward the officer like Brown did.
“Cops don’t protect you”. As much as possible they will protect you. How many cops died rushing into the world trade buildings to help people.
“Cops protect and serve the government and very rich”. Absurd if the statement only applies to the rich.
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There is no reason to vilify the police doing their job properly. It is the duty of every citizen to vilify the thugs and murderers on police forces everywhere.
 
Yes. The public vilifies the police when a police shooting against a black man goes national. The public reacts without the facts. It’s not just police shooting either.

Your right data does suggest that blacks are disproportionately likely to die at the hands of police.

According to US Census Bureau 13% of Americans are black.
According to the Bureau of Justice Statistics black offenders committed 52% of homicides between 1980 and 2008.

Blacks were disproportionately likely to commit homicide and to be the victims. In 2008 the offending rate for blacks was seven times higher than for whites and the victimization rate was six times higher.
93% of black victims were killed by blacks.
Why aren’t we having a discussion about black on black crime. That is were the problem is.

FBI data shows that black criminals carry out 38% of murders compared to 31.1% for whites.

Data shows that the proportion of black suspects arrested closely match the proportion of offenders identified as black by victims in the National Crime Victimization Survey.
The study does not support the idea that police are unfairly discriminating against the black population.

A study in Cleveland found that violent crime was linked to poverty not race as the biggest factor.

Poverty does not justify violent crimes.

No I never lived in NYC or Newark. However I was born and raised in Detroit during the 60’s.
 
"According to US Census Bureau 13% of Americans are black.
According to the Bureau of Justice Statistics black offenders committed 52% of homicides between 1980 and 2008." Tk #66
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I'd be exceedingly careful about regarding such statistics.
Even if the number is accurate, sometimes the wording is so poor it misleads the reader.

For example, as you've posted it you seem to be asserting over half the homicides in the U.S. are committed by Blacks.
I consider that unlikely.

First of all if Blacks were as intrinsically criminally predisposed to murder as that stat. suggests, then such murder rates should prevail in African countries as well. According to what I've read of it, they do not.
So that suggests, if crime rates for Africans in the U.S. are higher than the crime rates for the same crime in African countries, then if it's not genetic, it's some other cause; you know, like being a discriminated against minority, on a lower income scale, being forced to live in less safe neighborhoods, etc.
"Why aren’t we having a discussion about black on black crime. That is were the problem is." Tk
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Start one.
BUT !!
The success of a topic (thread) is often strongly influenced by how well the reader can determine the topic by the subject line.

"WTF" may get no posts at all. But:
"Crime rate differentials between Whites & Blacks in the U.S." should at least attract some lurkers.
"Poverty does not justify violent crimes." Tk
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Generally not.
The cliche' exception is the starving baby scenario.

Barry Farber addressed that by saying: if poverty causes crime Calcutta would be one of the most crime-ridden cities on Earth. It isn't.

But I would add to Farber's insight:

What may tend to promote crime is steep gradients of deprivation levels of poverty in close proximity to opulent, extravagant wealth.
Part of the anger of such situation is that in such gradient, it's often the impoverished that work harder than the wealthy.
So they work much harder, for much much less.
It's a conspicuous injustice. And while to you and me it's merely if not mainly conceptual, for those for whom it is a lifelong reality, it can foment crime-motivating resentment.
 
sear said:
I'd be exceedingly careful about regarding such statistics.
Even if the number is accurate, sometimes the wording is so poor it misleads the reader.

For example, as you've posted it you seem to be asserting over half the homicides in the U.S. are committed by Blacks.
I consider that unlikely.

I’m just quoting stats. The data does confirm over half of homicides are committed by Blacks. The majority being black on black. Based on the shootings in intercities like Chicago, St. Louis and Baltimore I believe the data is accurate.

Im not sure what could be misread in these stats. When a homicide occurs they record whether it committed by a white, Black or other race.
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Tkaffen said:
sear said:
I'd be exceedingly careful about regarding such statistics.
Even if the number is accurate, sometimes the wording is so poor it misleads the reader.

For example, as you've posted it you seem to be asserting over half the homicides in the U.S. are committed by Blacks.
I consider that unlikely.

I’m just quoting stats. The data does confirm over half of homicides are committed by Blacks. The majority being black on black. Based on the shootings in intercities like Chicago, St. Louis and Baltimore I believe the data is accurate.

Im not sure what could be misread in these stats. When a homicide occurs they record whether it committed by a white, Black or other race.
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how long have you been KKK, white trash?
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"I’m just quoting stats." Tk #68
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My point precisely.
So I had a quick peek. There are various sources for such things. The CDC keeps some stats. The FBI's may be more well-known.
Here's what I found:
* From 2002 to 2011, the average homicide rate for males
was 3.6 times higher than the rate for females. The
average homicide rate for blacks was 6.3 times higher than
the rate for whites.
https://www.bjs.gov/content/pub/ascii/hus11.txt
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The following is a URL to a more detailed table: https://ucr.fbi.gov/crime-in-the-u.s/2016/crime-in-the-u.s.-2016/tables/table-21
"Im not sure what could be misread in these stats. When a homicide occurs they record whether it committed by a white, Black or other race." Tk
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It's complicated.
Some statistics are based upon arrests.
Some statistics are based upon convictions.
Not all homicides are investigated with equal zeal. It's unwise to consider whatever number is reported as god's absolute truth.

Further information can be reviewed here: https://www.cdc.gov/nchs/pressroom/sosmap/homicide_mortality/homicide.htm
 
I’m not sure where you got your information but the crime rate in African countries are high.
I did some research.

In South Africa for the time period from April 2016 to March 2017 there were 19,016 murders which is 34.1 murders per 100,000 people. These figures don’t include other violent crime.
Other countries with high murder rates include Ivory Coast (11.63 per 100,000), Cape Verde (11.49), Lesotho (41.25), etc.

Let’s also not forget the numerous wars and conflicts.
In 2017 thousands died in Somalia, South Sudan, Nigeria to name a few.

Your statement is silly to relate crime in US to that of Africa (African male to an African American male)
Your suggestion that crime is related to race is also stupid.

I thought you were half way intelligent but I was wrong. Your statement that “blacks were as intrinsically criminally predisposed to murder” is just dumb. You took the stats and twisted them to what you want to believe.

Just to let you know Africa doesn’t have the highest murder rate. The region with the highest murder rate is in Central America including Brazil, Honduras, Venezuela,etc.
Are you now going to tell me how predisposed to murder people from Central America are.
I didn’t take you as being a racist but with your comments I’m changing my mind.

Living in an unsafe neighborhood or having a lower income status does not justify violent crime.
I’m going to rape and murder you because I’m poor and I live in an unsafe neighborhood. That makes a lot of sense to me.

I’m going to shoot your stupid theory out of the water.
The highest poverty rate in the country is at 39% (reservation Indians), non reservation Indians at 26% and for blacks 25%.
However the crime rate for Indians is 7 per 100,000 which is similar to the general population.
The crime rate for blacks as of 2015 was 20 per 100,000.

Do you think Blacks were the only people that suffered discrimination. What about the Japanese during the war, the Chinese and Irish, the American Indian and Latinos.
In an NPR poll conducted in October 2017 most Americans think their own group faces discrimination.
 
Don’t you read the post before commenting.
I said “2008 the offending rate for blacks was 7 times higher than for whites and the victimization rate was 6 times higher”.
You said “the average homicide rate for blacks is 6.3 times higher than the rate for whites”.
Did looks like our numbers are close.
Don’t you remember I said the majority of the homicide rate is black on black.

Collecting data is not that complicated.
I do agree that not everything is reported. So the actual numbers could be too low.
 
I’m so glad you were able to say something intelligent to the subject. Thank you for your contribution. I see you must have researched the internet for such a profound statement.
 
South Africa is not the best choice of African nation to choose for such statistics, due to its unique African history.
"I’m not sure where you got your information" Tk #71
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That's what the source URL's are for.

Perhaps I should explain. My background is high tech. I have decades of on the job use of applied statistics. I'm not a mathemagician. But I can recognize a blatantly bad stat when I encounter it.

You've listed murder rate stats for a few non-South Africa nations. Fine.
But then you failed to list the murder rate stats for Whites in those same nations. So your contrast is incomplete.
"Your statement is silly to relate crime in US to that of Africa (African male to an African American male)
Your suggestion that crime is related to race is also stupid." Tk
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Oh yes! Tremendously stupid, for sure!
You're the one that introduced it.
"According to US Census Bureau 13% of Americans are black.
According to the Bureau of Justice Statistics black offenders committed 52% of homicides between 1980 and 2008." Tk #66
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