Libertarianism

F

FUCK THE POLICE

911 EVERY DAY
Is it just me, or are we ridiculously ideologically?

For instance, whenever asked about monopolies, a libertarian will ignore the vast amount of monopolies that have existed in real life, and think in his head "The weakest is destroyed, the best comes to the top", repetitively, and entirely deny that monopolies are even possible under a free market. Instead of letting reality change their ideology, they critisize reality for not fitting into their ideology.
 
I've always maintained that trustbusting was an arguably useful and necessary function of government.

However, I do agree with anarcho-capitalists that many monopolies would not have formed without the involvement of state favoritism in industry.
 
It's just that, Warren, whenever I was in libertarian mode I always used to completely discount the possiblity that monopolies could exist in a free market, no matter what.
 
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Watermark said:
Is it just me, or are we ridiculously ideologically?

For instance, whenever asked about monopolies, a libertarian will ignore the vast amount of monopolies that have existed in real life,
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Such as... the state?

Watermark said:
and think in his head "The weakest is destroyed, the best comes to the top", repetitively, and entirely deny that monopolies are even possible under a free market. Instead of letting reality change their ideology, they critisize reality for not fitting into their ideology.
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Reality is that just about every coercive monopoly existed due to the state.
 
Did the monopolies exist due to the state or to due to the corporations influence on the state ?
Which came first the chicken or the egg ?
 
Corporations exists, largely, because of the state.

To be clear, I have no problem with corps other than the corporate veil, which is a totally statist creation. Why should they be able to limit their liability, without those limits stipulated in contract? Further, the state's tax structure encourages their dominance by taxing distributed income.
 
Libertarian ideology is myopic, delusional, and often just downright silly. It has never been, nor will it ever be accepted as serious thought, or embraced by most Americans.

For instance, "Reality is that just about every coercive monopoly existed due to the state."

That's stupid to the nth degree .. when in fact, the role of the state has often been to curb the growth and existence of monopolies. This is such an obvious truth that it boggles the mind as who would be dumb enough to believe this. To embrace such an obviously goofy thought, one would have to have no understanding of the history of 19th century robber barons or railroad monopolies, IBM, or even Microsoft in the modern day.

Corporations and monopolies are created by the power of money, not be the state. Did the state create Microsoft or did it simply license it to operate?
 
Ah, the libertarians busy speculating about fantasyland. The free market is a myth folks you should recognize that by now and freedom as defined as a 'level playing field' never existed either. Notice the Fed lowered interest rates, jeez and here I thought the market did that. Time you all grew up.
 
blackascoal said:
For instance, "Reality is that just about every coercive monopoly existed due to the state."

That's stupid to the nth degree ..
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Ignoring your typical peanut gallery disrespect of our philosophy, I will agree with you that I too cringe when I hear anarcho capitalists make such statements.

Even if "almost every" monopoly can be traced back to state favoritism, the existence of just one monopoly occurring naturally in the free market is enough to justify the government's role in breaking monopolies.

Such power should be used sparingly, and with caution.
 
midcan5 said:
Ah, the libertarians busy speculating about fantasyland. The free market is a myth folks you should recognize that by now and freedom as defined as a 'level playing field' never existed either. Notice the Fed lowered interest rates, jeez and here I thought the market did that. Time you all grew up.
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The free market is a myth? You're a myth.
 
Warren said:
Ignoring your typical peanut gallery disrespect of our philosophy, I will agree with you that I too cringe when I hear anarcho capitalists make such statements.

Even if "almost every" monopoly can be traced back to state favoritism, the existence of just one monopoly occurring naturally in the free market is enough to justify the government's role in breaking monopolies.

Such power should be used sparingly, and with caution.
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My "typical peanut gallery disrespect of our[your] philsophy" is well-deserved when one considers the kind of statements that come out of it. One would be hard pressed to come up with the slightest modicum of logic outside of the libertarian world for statements like "corporations exist largely because of the state."

My biggest problem with it is that it is completely devoid of any sense of socio-ethical responsibility. It places the individual above society and above America. That makes no sense.
 
blackascoal said:
My "typical peanut gallery disrespect of our[your] philsophy" is well-deserved when one considers the kind of statements that come out of it. One would be hard pressed to come up with the slightest modicum of logic outside of the libertarian world for statements like "corporations exist largely because of the state."

My biggest problem with it is that it is completely devoid of any sense of socio-ethical responsibility. It places the individual above society and above America. That makes no sense.
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No, it places the individual's Civil Liberties directly into the responsibility of the society, giving precedence where such protection belongs.
 
Damocles said:
No, it places the individual's Civil Liberties directly into the responsibility of the society, giving precedence where such protection belongs.
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No it doesn't and it has no real world application in a modern society.

It pretends the individual is more important than society and claims the individual has no responsibility to anything other than himself.
 
The individual is just as important as society. Society cannot exist without the individual. Although an individual can exist without society, it wouldn't be an existance worth noting. I'd say there's a mixed responsibility there but every individual deserves a lot of autonomy and independence from society.

This is a thing I think that people like the middle-easterners don't understand. Whenever an individual releases something that they find objectionable, they go and bomb a Dutch embassy or something that's composed up of individuals who had nothing to do with any of it. They are unable to understand the concept of the autonomous individual, and of tolerance towards individuals within a society. An inability seperate the I from the we.
 
uscitizen said:
Did the monopolies exist due to the state or to due to the corporations influence on the state ?
Which came first the chicken or the egg ?
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Tax laws made corporations, correct or was there another influence?
Free trade made monopolies.
Corporations are starting to have too much influence on lawmakers.
 
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