LOOK deeper, majority FOR health care reform to go further!!

Bittermark said:
If you add up the total amount of people wanting this reform or something left of it you definitely get a sizable majority.

And let's be honest. The left-wingers who "oppose" this bill are just playing a gambit. They would be happier under this system than the current worst healthcare system in the world.
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That's not indicated at all. Though they may support socialized health care, they may just believe the current proposal makes things worse. In other words, they do not see it as a step in the right direction.
 
And on second thought, there is no reason to assume they support socialized health care at all. I support extensive reforms, but not socialized health care.
 
RStringfield said:
And on second thought, there is no reason to assume they support socialized health care at all. I support extensive reforms, but not socialized health care.
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:-/

I'd say about 20% probably support it from a socialized standpoint (I do believe I've read polls to this effect elsewhere, but I can't remember where, so it's valid for you to disagree with me on this). You're right that not all oppose it from that standpoint.

That's still puts some form of leftist/moderate HCR in majority territory, though.
 
You guys can talk till you're blue in the face but the problem continues to grow. Working people and those losing their jobs every day are in serious trouble and need help. Those with jobs are finding it tougher to afford their insurance and small companies can't even think about offering it. It's so obvious that the right would rather dump trillions into wars for oil and pipelines while the Americans who pay for their fucking wars go without. The right has had 30 years to do something and now they are gaming the our government to insure their profits. I say it's time to get affordable healthcare for ALL Americans and if the minority doesn't like it fuck you.
 
RStringfield said:
And on second thought, there is no reason to assume they support socialized health care at all. I support extensive reforms, but not socialized health care.
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I don't know what "socialized healthcare" means. It's a ill-defined and nebulus word I hardly ever see used anywhere except in the rightwing media.


What we're talking about is government-financed healthcare. That's the bottom line.


And, in response to your assertion, I have a reason why people support government-financed healthcare. There's already over 100 million americans on government-financed healthcare. And of the 45 million uninsured, I'm willing to be a majority of them would LOVE to have TRICARE, Medicare, or CHiPs.

I see zero evidence that these americans are, in any measurable way, running for the hills to get away from their government financed healthcare. And I see zero evidence in Congress that anyone is willing to eliminate Medicare, Tricare, CHiPs, or Medicaid.

What I do see, is that a lot of teabaggers, and erstwhile listeners of rightwing talk radio who are apparently unaware that Medicare is a government-funded health insurance program. I'm not surprised. George Bush didn't know social security was a government program in his 2000 campaign.


In 2008, the number of people insured by Medicaid and Medicare also increased, to 42.6 million enrolled in
Medicaid and 43.0 million enrolled in Medicare.4


10.1 million people in the government-funded and managed CHIPs program.


Military health care and government TRICARE insurance = 3.1 million

8 million fed employees and dependents enrolled in the government-funded and managed FEHBP

Approximately 12 million State Government and Local Government employees, the vast majority presumably on government-funded health insurance.

Total Number of Americans on Government-funded healthcare = 119 million Americans


http://www.census.gov/prod/2009pubs/p60-236.pdf
http://www.cbo.gov/budget/factsheets/2009b/chip.pdf

http://www.data360.org/dsg.aspx?Data_Set_Group_Id=228
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It really is about time America joins the rest of the civilised world and develops universal healthcare. To leave citizens to the whims of the 'death panels' in insurance companies, or worse, to the measure of wealth, is just barbaric in the modern world.

You'd expect it from backward nations in South America, but not from the civilised north!
 
KingCondanomation said:
How do you explain a Republican senator getting elected in the furthest left state of Mass to stop healthcare reform then?

I've always felt the use of the word "reform" is extremely disingenuous considering that the bulk of this "reform" is really just a large expansion of social welfare spending that will add immensely to the debt when it is already being added to at a record pace. We already pay over $800 billion per year and rising fast for EXISTING government healthcare programs like Medicare and Medicaid and we cannot afford that - it is insane to even propose so called reform that greatly adds to that.

The Democrats are going to turn a positive word like "reform" into something negative - just like they did with the word "welfare".
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Look what happenes when the Right elects a man based on his stance on a single issue...the guy went right out and voted FOR Obama's Jobs bill that Republican Congressional Leadership opposed...whoopsie!
 
AnyOldIron said:
It really is about time America joins the rest of the civilised world and develops universal healthcare. To leave citizens to the whims of the 'death panels' in insurance companies, or worse, to the measure of wealth, is just barbaric in the modern world.

You'd expect it from backward nations in South America, but not from the civilised north!
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Now there's somebody I haven't seen in some time.
 
Cypress said:
I don't know what "socialized healthcare" means. It's a ill-defined and nebulus word I hardly ever see used anywhere except in the rightwing media.


What we're talking about is government-financed healthcare. That's the bottom line.


And, in response to your assertion, I have a reason why people support government-financed healthcare. There's already over 100 million americans on government-financed healthcare. And of the 45 million uninsured, I'm willing to be a majority of them would LOVE to have TRICARE, Medicare, or CHiPs.

I see zero evidence that these americans are, in any measurable way, running for the hills to get away from their government financed healthcare. And I see zero evidence in Congress that anyone is willing to eliminate Medicare, Tricare, CHiPs, or Medicaid.

What I do see, is that a lot of teabaggers, and erstwhile listeners of rightwing talk radio who are apparently unaware that Medicare is a government-funded health insurance program. I'm not surprised. George Bush didn't know social security was a government program in his 2000 campaign.
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Who wants to bet it was not a coincidence that gumby forgot to mention the unfunded liability of those government health care programs?
 
Superfreak said:
Who wants to bet it was not a coincidence that gumby forgot to mention the unfunded liability of those government health care programs?
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Again, to "fix" the baby boomer problem with medicare and SS would require minor tax raises and minor benefit cuts. It's not an insurmountable problem unless we wait until 2050 or so to deal with it.
 
Bittermark said:
Again, to "fix" the baby boomer problem with medicare and SS would require minor tax raises and minor benefit cuts. It's not an insurmountable problem unless we wait until 2050 or so to deal with it.
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If you still think we have until 2050 after this downturn you are absolutely and irrevocably ignorant.
 
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