looking forward to obamacare?????

[Cancel 2020.1]

how can I move goal posts when his premise puts forth an all or nothing scenario?

The original goalpost was that the free market is great. I said it isn't great for all things - and used protecting the environment as an example. You said that was patently ridiculous, but now you seem to be saying that gov't regulations ARE needed for those kinds of priorities, and that the free market ON ITS OWN will not take care of that.

So, we seem to agree. Glad you came around.

 

[SmarterthanYou]

The original goalpost was that the free market is great. I said it isn't great for all things - and used protecting the environment as an example. You said that was patently ridiculous, but now you seem to be saying that gov't regulations ARE needed for those kinds of priorities, and that the free market ON ITS OWN will not take care of that.

So, we seem to agree. Glad you came around.

once more for the reality impaired...Free market has NEVER meant ZERO regulations, despite the hysterical hyperbole bandied about by both the left and the right. Free market simply means the minimum regulation necessary, but don't let the facts and truth get in the way of your obfuscation.

 

[christiefan915]

Why do I never see it?
Never seen a waiting list.
Never heard of a bed shortage.
Never seen soiled bed linen re used for a new patient.

The USA had the best healthcare on earth!

You don't see it because you don't look for it. But I'm going to help you out because I'm not wearing blinders.

"Kaiser Permanente will be assessed a record fine today for its haphazard investigations of questionable care, physician performance and patient complaints at its California hospitals, according to state HMO regulators.

The California Department of Managed Health Care said it will levy a $3-million fine against Kaiser, the largest HMO in the state, with 29 medical centers and more than 6 million members. If Kaiser makes necessary improvements, agency director Cindy Ehnes said, she will forgive $1 million of that."

http://articles.latimes.com/2007/jul/26/local/me-kaiser26

How American Health Care Killed My Father

http://www.theatlantic.com/magazine...american-health-care-killed-my-father/307617/

"Hospitals should be places you go to get better, but too often the opposite happens.

Infections, surgical mistakes, and other medical harm contribute to the deaths of 180,000 hospital patients a year, according to projections based on a 2010 report from the Department of Health and Human Services. Another 1.4 million are seriously hurt by their hospital care. And those figures apply only to Medicare patients. What happens to other people is less clear because most hospital errors go unreported and hospitals report on only a fraction of things that can go wrong."

http://www.consumerreports.org/cro/magazine/2012/08/how-safe-is-your-hospital/index.htm

Medical Errors Harm Huge Number of Patients

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/08/29/medical-errors-hospitals-harm-patients_n_1839814.html

 

[Cancel 2020.1]

once more for the reality impaired...Free market has NEVER meant ZERO regulations, despite the hysterical hyperbole bandied about by both the left and the right. Free market simply means the minimum regulation necessary, but don't let the facts and truth get in the way of your obfuscation.

It isn't obfuscation. I was speaking in principle about what the free market is good at, and what it isn't good at. It was a pretty simple concept, actually.

 

[SmarterthanYou]

It isn't obfuscation. I was speaking in principle about what the free market is good at, and what it isn't good at. It was a pretty simple concept, actually.

yeah, no regulation vs. total regulation is pretty simple for the simple minded.

 

[zappasguitar]

This has NOTHING to do with socialized healthcare though, does it?

Of course it doesn't...but it sure tugs at the ol heart strings, eh?

EEEEEEEVIL NHS "Doctors" torturing a patient...it's all very sad, and to this day still completely UNPROVEN.

007 sure has a laundry list of anecdotal "evidence", unfortunately he falls a bit short in the "actual proof" category.

 

[zappasguitar]

Why do I never see it?
Never seen a waiting list.
Never heard of a bed shortage.
Never seen soiled bed linen re used for a new patient.

The USA had the best healthcare on earth!

IF you have the money to pay.

 

[007]

You don't see it because you don't look for it. But I'm going to help you out because I'm not wearing blinders.

"Kaiser Permanente will be assessed a record fine today for its haphazard investigations of questionable care, physician performance and patient complaints at its California hospitals, according to state HMO regulators.

The California Department of Managed Health Care said it will levy a $3-million fine against Kaiser, the largest HMO in the state, with 29 medical centers and more than 6 million members. If Kaiser makes necessary improvements, agency director Cindy Ehnes said, she will forgive $1 million of that."

http://articles.latimes.com/2007/jul/26/local/me-kaiser26

How American Health Care Killed My Father

http://www.theatlantic.com/magazine...american-health-care-killed-my-father/307617/

"Hospitals should be places you go to get better, but too often the opposite happens.

Infections, surgical mistakes, and other medical harm contribute to the deaths of 180,000 hospital patients a year, according to projections based on a 2010 report from the Department of Health and Human Services. Another 1.4 million are seriously hurt by their hospital care. And those figures apply only to Medicare patients. What happens to other people is less clear because most hospital errors go unreported and hospitals report on only a fraction of things that can go wrong."

http://www.consumerreports.org/cro/magazine/2012/08/how-safe-is-your-hospital/index.htm

Medical Errors Harm Huge Number of Patients

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/08/29/medical-errors-hospitals-harm-patients_n_1839814.html

The NHS has no accountability.
Thank you for showing us how the USA holds crap drs accountable.

 

[007]

IF you have the money to pay.

Or took responsibility and purchased quality insurance.

 

[zappasguitar]

Or took responsibility and purchased quality insurance.

Which one can do ONLY IF they have MONEY.

 

[007]

Which one can do ONLY IF they have MONEY.

S O G E T A J O B!!!!
The you will have money.
90% of the country have jobs, it's not that difficult!!

 

[Rune]

S O G E T A J O B!!!!
The you will have money.
90% of the country have jobs, it's not that difficult!!

Actually good jobs with decent benefits are very difficult to get. That is why we have a high unemployment rate, in case you hadn't noticed.

 

[Cancel 2020.1]

yeah, no regulation vs. total regulation is pretty simple for the simple minded.

Regulation is a function of gov't. No regulation is a function of the free market.

The free market isn't great for everything; sometimes gov't is needed.

Can't simplify it any more than that.

 

[zappasguitar]

S O G E T A J O B!!!!
The you will have money.
90% of the country have jobs, it's not that difficult!!

90% of the country have GOOD PAYING jobs that allow a minimum wager worker to buy "quality" health insurance?

A family of four living just above the poverty line and paycheck to paycheck can afford "quality" health insurance?

You really are an insensitive tool.

 

[007]

Actually good jobs with decent benefits are very difficult to get. That is why we have a high unemployment rate, in case you hadn't noticed.

Unemployment has nothing to do with availability of work,
It has everything to do with willingness to work.
I used to work a second job to pay for my health insurance.

 

[007]

90% of the country have GOOD PAYING jobs that allow a minimum wager worker to buy "quality" health insurance?

A family of four living just above the poverty line and paycheck to paycheck can afford "quality" health insurance?

You really are an insensitive tool.

168 hours in a week, you can work 90 with ease.
I've done it!!

 

[Pointgold]

Actually good jobs with decent benefits are very difficult to get. That is why we have a high unemployment rate, in case you hadn't noticed.

And they're about to get scarcer.

 

[Cancel 2018. 3]

Actually good jobs with decent benefits are very difficult to get. That is why we have a high unemployment rate, in case you hadn't noticed.

how do you get that correlation?