Marx

[IBDaMann]

Imperialism and crony capitalism is a system.

You just once again pivotted away from "capitalism" (sound economic principles) to politics. Do you have any intention of discussing this topic honestly? You began by bitching and moaning that Marx (the thread title) wasn't being addressed, yet EVERY TIME I lock onto Marx (and the problems with his ideology), you pivot to a different topic, e.g. "freedom", political corruption, poor financial decisions, the "CIA", whatever. Then you declare "capitalism has failed" which is a slogan that is devoid of meaning.

The bottom line is that I debunked your religion and you are pretending that none of the preceding posts ever took place.

Why does the CIA have to go in and coup socialists governments?

Who says they do? When did the CIA have Venezuela, China and North Korea overthrown?

.

 

[goat]

You just once again pivotted away from "capitalism" (sound economic principles) to politics. Do you have any intention of discussing this topic honestly? You began by bitching and moaning that Marx (the thread title) wasn't being addressed, yet EVERY TIME I lock onto Marx (and the problems with his ideology), you pivot to a different topic, e.g. "freedom", political corruption, poor financial decisions, the "CIA", whatever. Then you declare "capitalism has failed" which is a slogan that is devoid of meaning.

The bottom line is that I debunked your religion and you are pretending that none of the preceding posts ever took place.


Who says they do? When did the CIA have Venezuela, China and North Korea overthrown?

.

You're going in circles by refusing to do any research. The list of governments overthrown by the CIA is too long to list. Yugoslavia is no longer on the map because they refused to be part of the IMF and world bank. Do a search on how many countries are trying to apply to become part of BRICS.

 

[goat]

Nazis mess with the Sistas and cost the taxpayers $8.5 million.

 

[IBDaMann]

The list of governments overthrown by the CIA is too long to list.

The list you provided is empty, and that certainly fit into your post.

I'll ask again: When did the CIA have Venezuela, China and North Korea overthrown?

Answer my question before you move on.

I will consider the possibility that the CIA brought down the Incas, Rome and Carthage, but I don't see any evidence for any others.

Yugoslavia is no longer on the map because they refused to be part of the IMF and world bank.

That's NOT why there is no longer a Yugoslavia.

Do a search on how many countries are trying to apply to become part of BRICS.

Let's see how that works out. I can tell you've been reading a lot of propaganda on that. You are going to be heavily disillusioned.

 

[goat]

The list you provided is empty, and that certainly fit into your post.

I'll ask again: When did the CIA have Venezuela, China and North Korea overthrown?

Answer my question before you move on.

I will consider the possibility that the CIA brought down the Incas, Rome and Carthage, but I don't see any evidence for any others.


That's NOT why there is no longer a Yugoslavia.


Let's see how that works out. I can tell you've been reading a lot of propaganda on that. You are going to be heavily disillusioned.

The banks have collapsed 3 times in 15 years. Gen Y and Z are studying Marx. How many wars can the US start to remain relevant in the 21st century?

 

[IBDaMann]

The banks have collapsed 3 times in 15 years. Gen Y and Z are studying Marx. How many wars can the US start to remain relevant in the 21st century?

We've come to the end of the Marx discussion, although it apparently ended a ways back.

At some point in your life you became ensnared in Marxist propaganda and sadly, you let it do your thinking for you, and now you are screwed up. You don't know what's what and apparently nobody can help you.

I'll leave you with this:

1. "Capitalism" was just Marx's slur for "sound economic principles" ... and those can't go bankrupt.
2. When you look around the world at everything that has been built, that is a result of an economy, i.e. capitalism
3. When you look around the world and you see massive tyranny, that's what Marxism brings.
4. When you are equating "capitalism" with some aspect of American life/society/government, you are simply spewing the unmitigated HATE for America that you have had reamed into you when you were bent over furniture.
5. You have no grasp of economics, yet you believe that your Marxist faith somehow has bestowed a broad economics understanding upon you, thus you won't learn anything when others offer to help you. As a result, you treat the Communist Manifesto and Das Kapital as inerrant, as fundamentalist Christians treat the Bible. Unfortunately, Marx's works are awash in errors and you have no way to either recognize or understand them. You are relegated to simply reciting and praying the words therein.
6. You have become the epitome of one who lets others do his thinking for him. When you speak or write, you are expressing the thoughts of someone else. Your thoughts have been cast aside as being worthless.

These kinds of discussions will not go well for you. You are thoroughly ill-equipped to formulate a coherent, independent thought, and you will remain such until you learn some economics.

 

[goat]

We've come to the end of the Marx discussion, although it apparently ended a ways back.

At some point in your life you became ensnared in Marxist propaganda and sadly, you let it do your thinking for you, and now you are screwed up. You don't know what's what and apparently nobody can help you.

I'll leave you with this:

1. "Capitalism" was just Marx's slur for "sound economic principles" ... and those can't go bankrupt.
2. When you look around the world at everything that has been built, that is a result of an economy, i.e. capitalism
3. When you look around the world and you see massive tyranny, that's what Marxism brings.
4. When you are equating "capitalism" with some aspect of American life/society/government, you are simply spewing the unmitigated HATE for America that you have had reamed into you when you were bent over furniture.
5. You have no grasp of economics, yet you believe that your Marxist faith somehow has bestowed a broad economics understanding upon you, thus you won't learn anything when others offer to help you. As a result, you treat the Communist Manifesto and Das Kapital as inerrant, as fundamentalist Christians treat the Bible. Unfortunately, Marx's works are awash in errors and you have no way to either recognize or understand them. You are relegated to simply reciting and praying the words therein.
6. You have become the epitome of one who lets others do his thinking for him. When you speak or write, you are expressing the thoughts of someone else. Your thoughts have been cast aside as being worthless.

These kinds of discussions will not go well for you. You are thoroughly ill-equipped to formulate a coherent, independent thought, and you will remain such until you learn some economics.

Again, I'm an anarchist who has read various options on economic systems and sociology. Capitalism is in its late stage, like Marx predicted. Socialist governments are being elected all over the world.

 

[IBDaMann]

Again, I'm an anarchist who has read various options on economic systems and sociology.

All you did was learn some terms that were assigned by Marxists who wanted to use you as a tool to impose tyranny.

Anarchy is the path to fascism and tyranny.

A republic is the framework for securing individual liberties and freedom overall.

Any socialist/fascist will hate free republics and will seek to destroy them. Within free republics, economies flourish, and Marxists cannot abide that. Within free republics, individuals have personal freedoms and are free to pursue happiness, and Marxists cannot abide that.

The Marxist's slogan: "We're not happy until you're not happy."

So the Marxist strategy is get the happy people in the republic to hate the good thing that they have, i.e. inculcate dissatisfaction and unhappiness by convincing the people that they are VICTIMS and that things are UNFAIR. Whether they are or not is immaterial. Those who are happy, freedom-loving people will inevitably begin complaining about everything that they don't fully understand, and they will eventually seek to dismantle the existing framework that delivers the individual freedoms and happiness that they had been enjoying.

Anarchy never lasts long. Some charismatic leader of an oligarchy soon promises to solve all their problems, usually the one who caused the problems in the first place, if the peole only vest all power into him or his party ... and an oligarchy is born.

Then the weapons are confiscated.
Then freedom of expression, of religion and to gather are eliminated.
Then trials begin behind closed doors and the accused have no rights.
Then executions begin.
Then any lingering talk of elections is permanently silenced.

You advocate for tyranny. You are desperate to throw away the freedoms you enjoy.

 

[goat]

All you did was learn some terms that were assigned by Marxists who wanted to use you as a tool to impose tyranny.

Anarchy is the path to fascism and tyranny.

A republic is the framework for securing individual liberties and freedom overall.

Any socialist/fascist will hate free republics and will seek to destroy them. Within free republics, economies flourish, and Marxists cannot abide that. Within free republics, individuals have personal freedoms and are free to pursue happiness, and Marxists cannot abide that.

The Marxist's slogan: "We're not happy until you're not happy."

So the Marxist strategy is get the happy people in the republic to hate the good thing that they have, i.e. inculcate dissatisfaction and unhappiness by convincing the people that they are VICTIMS and that things are UNFAIR. Whether they are or not is immaterial. Those who are happy, freedom-loving people will inevitably begin complaining about everything that they don't fully understand, and they will eventually seek to dismantle the existing framework that delivers the individual freedoms and happiness that they had been enjoying.

Anarchy never lasts long. Some charismatic leader of an oligarchy soon promises to solve all their problems, usually the one who caused the problems in the first place, if the peole only vest all power into him or his party ... and an oligarchy is born.

Then the weapons are confiscated.
Then freedom of expression, of religion and to gather are eliminated.
Then trials begin behind closed doors and the accused have no rights.
Then executions begin.
Then any lingering talk of elections is permanently silenced.

You advocate for tyranny. You are desperate to throw away the freedoms you enjoy.

TL;DR

 

[Lightbringer]

Imperialism and crony capitalism is a system. Why does the CIA have to go in and coup socialists governments? It's because they nationalize their natural resources and use the profits to bring the people out of poverty.

The US is basically a banana republic ruled by a handful of elites.

No it's not. It's criminal behavior.

 

[T. A. Gardner]

Stupid.

Walmart teamed up with local government to build a public library. Walmart provided the funding and the local government expedited all the permits, zoning, paperwork, etc.
This is your definition of fascism. I reject your definition as being stupid.
You call me and some undefined group "fascists" but I have never teamed with government to build a public library.

Fascism is the reverse of this. Government decides something needs to be done, or whatever, so it makes laws, regulations, and rules that will force that behavior on corporations. To sweeten the deal, the government hands out bribes...err, subsidies.

Corporations respond by doing what the government dictates. They really don't care so long as they are making good profits.

Thus, a better current example of fascism would be EV cars. The government by fiat passes a law outlawing other types of cars. They then give buyers and corporations subsidies to soften the blow in having to buy one. Corporations switch to making EV cars because that's what the government wants. They make good profits so they don't give a shit that they're making EV's rather than whatever they made before.

This is called "Statist Capitalism" and it is a staple economic theory used in fascist states.

 

[Lightbringer]

Fascism is the reverse of this. Government decides something needs to be done, or whatever, so it makes laws, regulations, and rules that will force that behavior on corporations. To sweeten the deal, the government hands out bribes...err, subsidies.

Corporations respond by doing what the government dictates. They really don't care so long as they are making good profits.

Thus, a better current example of fascism would be EV cars. The government by fiat passes a law outlawing other types of cars. They then give buyers and corporations subsidies to soften the blow in having to buy one. Corporations switch to making EV cars because that's what the government wants. They make good profits so they don't give a shit that they're making EV's rather than whatever they made before.

This is called "Statist Capitalism" and it is a staple economic theory used in fascist states.

This is just my opinion but I think it's the reverse. I think business drives the agenda and buys government.

 

[T. A. Gardner]

Imperialism and crony capitalism is a system. Why does the CIA have to go in and coup socialists governments? It's because they nationalize their natural resources and use the profits to bring the people out of poverty.

The US is basically a banana republic ruled by a handful of elites.

Except, history shows that heavy handed socialism by government does exactly the opposite. Natural resources are squandered because government has to ensure that those running the programs are loyal to the government first, and competent and capable second. That leads to a general collapse of the economy as poor decisions by government to make things "fair and equal" destroy the economy.

Venezuela serves as a good and recent example. There, for example, the government controlled flour imports. They were the source of that resource for the country. They dolled out flour to bakers who initially made products like cakes and desserts because these had higher profit margins on the limited amount of flour they were allowed to buy.

The government saw that and though it unfair that bakers were only making high priced items so they could make a profit and stay in business. The government wanted them to make cheap bread. So, the government made a law that 80% of the flour a bakery got had to be used to make bread and the government set the price it could sell at so low that bakeries were losing money. The bakeries started to go out of business. The government decided that was wrong too, and started putting bakery owners in prison for refusing to make bread.

The government then installed cronies loyal to the régime to run the bakeries in place of the now jailed owners. These people didn't know squat about baking so the wastage of flour rose precipitously. Now there was a general shortage of bread and people starved. That's how socialism works.

Or, in Britain the government socialized most of their auto industry (British Leyland). The workers got paid by the government a reasonable amount with benefits, but there was no incentive to do a good job. That's because the government allowed the union to remain in place. The union regularly demanded higher pay and struck often. The workers found the government couldn't fire them for doing a shitty job. So they slacked off, made shitty products--that is when they weren't striking and getting paid welfare by the government that was almost as much as they made when working.

People didn't want the shitty products they produced and the company lost its ass in the market. That's socialism.

 

[T. A. Gardner]

This is just my opinion but I think it's the reverse. I think business drives the agenda and buys government.

That's crony capitalism. That isn't fascist, it's just borderline criminal...

 

[Lightbringer]

That's crony capitalism. That isn't fascist, it's just borderline criminal...

East India Company.

 

[T. A. Gardner]

East India Company.

That's one that is kind of unique to history. It's a corporation but it is also really a quasi-government entity as it ruled colonial nations, had its own army and navy, raised taxes, mint its own money, and did a lot of other stuff governments normally do. The crown was all-to-happy to let them do it so long as they weren't doing it in England and the crown got its cut.

 

[Lightbringer]

That's one that is kind of unique to history. It's a corporation but it is also really a quasi-government entity as it ruled colonial nations, had its own army and navy, raised taxes, mint its own money, and did a lot of other stuff governments normally do. The crown was all-to-happy to let them do it so long as they weren't doing it in England and the crown got its cut.

Yeah, that's exactly my point. Business leads the way...government follows.

 

[T. A. Gardner]

Yeah, that's exactly my point. Business leads the way...government follows.

Government can lead the way. My example of EV cars is a good one of that. Nobody would buy the damn things if the government wasn't forcing them down people's throats. Tesla would have gone under more than a decade ago without massive government subsidy keeping it afloat.

 

[Lightbringer]

Government can lead the way. My example of EV cars is a good one of that. Nobody would buy the damn things if the government wasn't forcing them down people's throats. Tesla would have gone under more than a decade ago without massive government subsidy keeping it afloat.

Nobody is buying them anyway. And the battery plants have failed too.

 

[T. A. Gardner]

Nobody is buying them anyway. And the battery plants have failed too.

Don't count them out yet. So long as government is willing to subsidize and otherwise prop EV manufacturers up, they'll continue in business regardless of how poor their market is.