Maybe when everybody has....

[NiftyNiblick]

...healthcare, workers' rights, and education,

I'll give a fat flying fuck about which family members are getting payments from where and whom.


Whom do you people think you're distracting with irrelevant stories like these?

 

[Yakuda]

...healthcare, workers' rights, and education,

I'll give a fat flying fuck about which family members are getting payments from where and whom.


Whom do you people think you're distracting with irrelevant stories like these?

You mean health coverage not care. Anyone can go to the hospital for care. Rights belong to individuals not groups, that is until leftists got into the "rights" business. Everyone already has an education, it's mandatory.

 

[Lightbringer]

...healthcare, workers' rights, and education,

I'll give a fat flying fuck about which family members are getting payments from where and whom.


Whom do you people think you're distracting with irrelevant stories like these?

Maybe we need the "new socialism?"

Right...fucktard?

 

[Walt]

Anyone can go to the hospital for care.

That is not true. Emergency rooms are required to give emergency care, but the rest of the hospital has no such requirement. Once you are stable, you are on your own.

 

[T. A. Gardner]

...healthcare, workers' rights, and education,
I'll give a fat flying fuck about which family members are getting payments from where and whom.
Whom do you people think you're distracting with irrelevant stories like these?

So, you okay with everyone being forced into some mediocre, half assed, government run version of these things? Is having everyone getting shitty healthcare, worker's rights, and education okay with you?

 

[Matt Dillon]

...healthcare, workers' rights, and education,

I'll give a fat flying fuck about which family members are getting payments from where and whom.


Whom do you people think you're distracting with irrelevant stories like these?

Fuck your commie Utopia, commie.

Maybe when people can pay for their housing for the month with 1 weeks' worth of work.

You know, like it was in America for well over 200 years.

As if nobody knows.

 

[Mason Michaels]

Fuck your commie Utopia, commie.

Maybe when people can pay for their housing for the month with 1 weeks' worth of work.

You know, like it was in America for well over 200 years.

As if nobody knows.

That America doesn't exist anymore!

 

[NiftyNiblick]

So, you okay with everyone being forced into some mediocre, half assed, government run version of these things? Is having everyone getting shitty healthcare, worker's rights, and education okay with you?

It works everywhere else in the civilized world except here.

Our social regressiveness doesn't bother people willing to hold our republic to very low standards, i.e., conservatives.
It only bothers people who expect us to be at least as good as anybody else.

 

[T. A. Gardner]

It works everywhere else in the civilized world except here.

Our social regressiveness doesn't bother people willing to hold our republic to very low standards, i.e., conservatives.
It only bothers people who expect us to be at least as good as anybody else.

No, it's accepted everywhere else by those that have no choice about it. For those with a choice, they often go outside the socialized medical system for treatment because the socialized system sucks.
It's much like that in the US where parts of the system are socialized. An example of this is the VA hospital system. Only veterans that don't have other health insurance or means use the VA. I don't know one veteran that has an alternative using the VA by choice. It's widely viewed as the last resort, rather than a good option.

Canada has socialized medicine. Canadians that want better service come to the US or even go to Mexico for health care. For example, Algodones Mexico across from Yuma Arizona is overrun with dental offices offering low cost, high quality service:

Only a delusional fool thinks the government will provide better health care than private industry can. And, only those that can't or won't pay for private care are demanding the government run the health care system.

 

[NiftyNiblick]

No, it's accepted everywhere else by those that have no choice about it. For those with a choice, they often go outside the socialized medical system for treatment because the socialized system sucks.
It's much like that in the US where parts of the system are socialized. An example of this is the VA hospital system. Only veterans that don't have other health insurance or means use the VA. I don't know one veteran that has an alternative using the VA by choice. It's widely viewed as the last resort, rather than a good option.

Canada has socialized medicine. Canadians that want better service come to the US or even go to Mexico for health care. For example, Algodones Mexico across from Yuma Arizona is overrun with dental offices offering low cost, high quality service:

Only a delusional fool thinks the government will provide better health care than private industry can. And, only those that can't or won't pay for private care are demanding the government run the health care system.

I'm inclined to believe, TAG, that everything that you've opined above is total bullshit, quite consistent with most of your opinions on most other subjects.
Truth be told, your entire way of thinking is extremely repugnant to me, which isn't something you'd need care about, of course; it's just the truth.

But here's the thing: even if public services are noticeably inferior to private ones in quality,
A CIVILIZED NATION IS NONETHELESS MORALLY OBLIGATED TO PROVIDE THEM TO WHOMEVER NEEDS THEM.

Further, whichever citizens seeks to impede such social necessities should be dealt with in a most Draconian manor.
I'm not sure that there's anything that I believe more than this, and I will continue to support every effort to make this our way of doing things.

You're probably, in this nation that doesn't support human decency, entitled to your opinions,
just as I'm entitled to view you as being in the same moral category as terrorists, child molesters, and scabs for having them

 

[T. A. Gardner]

I'm inclined to believe, TAG, that everything that you've opined above is total bullshit, quite consistent with most of your opinions on most other subjects.
Truth be told, your entire way of thinking is extremely repugnant to me, which isn't something you'd need care about, of course; it's just the truth.

But here's the thing: even if public services are noticeably inferior to private ones in quality,
A CIVILIZED NATION IS NONETHELESS MORALLY OBLIGATED TO PROVIDE THEM TO WHOMEVER NEEDS THEM.

Further, whichever citizens seeks to impede such social necessities should be dealt with in a most Draconian manor.
I'm not sure that there's anything that I believe more than this, and I will continue to support every effort to make this our way of doing things.

You're probably, in this nation that doesn't support human decency, entitled to your opinions,
just as I'm entitled to view you as being in the same moral category as terrorists, child molesters, and scabs for having them

Let's see:

You open with an Appeal to the Stone in the form of an ad hominem. That is, you dismiss my claim without even trying present a tiny shred of evidence and then insult what I presented rather than respond to it.

After that, you launch into a tirade of irrelevant Appeals to Emotion, Appeals to Motive, etc. Your position boils down to 'I want..." and nothing more. If I change the item in your argument, anyone can see the absurdity of it thus:

But here's the thing: Even if the automobiles are noticeably inferior to private ones in quality, A CIVILIZED NATION IS NONETHELESS MORALLY OBLIGATED TO PROVIDE ONE TO WHOMEVER NEEDS ONE.

That argument could be made about ANY material thing and it is equally absurd in every case. I'm equally entitled to view YOU as being in the same moral category as utopians and communists have been throughout history, monsters destroying nations and societies in the name of progress and fairness.

 

[NiftyNiblick]

Let's see:

You open with an Appeal to the Stone in the form of an ad hominem. That is, you dismiss my claim without even trying present a tiny shred of evidence and then insult what I presented rather than respond to it.

After that, you launch into a tirade of irrelevant Appeals to Emotion, Appeals to Motive, etc. Your position boils down to 'I want..." and nothing more. If I change the item in your argument, anyone can see the absurdity of it thus:

But here's the thing: Even if the automobiles are noticeably inferior to private ones in quality, A CIVILIZED NATION IS NONETHELESS MORALLY OBLIGATED TO PROVIDE ONE TO WHOMEVER NEEDS ONE.

That argument could be made about ANY material thing and it is equally absurd in every case. I'm equally entitled to view YOU as being in the same moral category as utopians and communists have been throughout history, monsters destroying nations and societies in the name of progress and fairness.

We've abused the forum with excessive verbiage, perhaps I more than you, TAG.

This can be said more simply.

We agree on nothing, never have, never will,
and even beyond that,
we would intuitively not like one another
even before expounding on ideals and philosophy
because some people are just like that.

You've certainly seen that as well.
They're not going to get along just on the basis of how their atoms interact.
Even if it's only over the internet.

 

[Ross Dolan]

No, it's accepted everywhere else by those that have no choice about it. For those with a choice, they often go outside the socialized medical system for treatment because the socialized system sucks.
It's much like that in the US where parts of the system are socialized. An example of this is the VA hospital system. Only veterans that don't have other health insurance or means use the VA. I don't know one veteran that has an alternative using the VA by choice. It's widely viewed as the last resort, rather than a good option.

Canada has socialized medicine. Canadians that want better service come to the US or even go to Mexico for health care. For example, Algodones Mexico across from Yuma Arizona is overrun with dental offices offering low cost, high quality service:

Only a delusional fool thinks the government will provide better health care than private industry can. And, only those that can't or won't pay for private care are demanding the government run the health care system.

Only a delusional fool would think that the GOP has better input into getting more people covered for healthcare...than the Democrats.

Yes...the government CAN do a better job of handling the healthcare coverage than the free market place. The entire of the industrial world with the exception of the United States realizes that...and structures the issue with that in mind. WE, because of thinking like you are doing, pay much, much, much more for our healthcare...and our healthcare does not actually stack up well against those other systems.

 

[T. A. Gardner]

We've abused the forum with excessive verbiage, perhaps I more than you, TAG.

This can be said more simply.

We agree on nothing, never have, never will,
and even beyond that,
we would intuitively not like one another
even before expounding on ideals and philosophy
because some people are just like that.

You've certainly seen that as well.
They're not going to get along just on the basis of how their atoms interact.
Even if it's only over the internet.

You believe in the concept that humanity is altruistic, or if they aren't they can be forced to be. That's a fundamental concept of the Left.

I believe that altruism is up to the individual to determine. When it becomes forced, society is diminished not enriched.

You put society ahead of individuals. I put individuals ahead of society.

 

[T. A. Gardner]

Only a delusional fool would think that the GOP has better input into getting more people covered for healthcare...than the Democrats.

Yes...the government CAN do a better job of handling the healthcare coverage than the free market place. The entire of the industrial world with the exception of the United States realizes that...and structures the issue with that in mind. WE, because of thinking like you are doing, pay much, much, much more for our healthcare...and our healthcare does not actually stack up well against those other systems.

Did I mention anywhere Democrats or Republicans? All I stated is, that government cannot and should not be trusted to run our lives because they suck at it. Government doesn't do a better job of it anywhere. They don't do a better job of risk management. Just look at how fucked up flood insurance is. That's run by FEMA. After Katrina, FEMA colluded with the USGS to increase the size of floodplains across the US. This was done not because those floodplains were the wrong size, but rather in order to force more people to buy flood insurance because their mortgage company now demanded it based on the new numbers. That brought tens of thousands of new customers into the flood insurance market giving FEMA more money to shore up their losses due to incompetence in actuarial methodology.

 

[Nordberg]

So, you okay with everyone being forced into some mediocre, half assed, government run version of these things? Is having everyone getting shitty healthcare, worker's rights, and education okay with you?

Other industrial countries have better healthcare, they cover everybody for half the cost. When Americans work abroad for while, they say our healthcare is one thing they do not miss.

 

[T. A. Gardner]

Other industrial countries have better healthcare, they cover everybody for half the cost. When Americans work abroad for while, they say our healthcare is one thing they do not miss.

Actually, for the most part they don't. What they often have is universal coverage for citizens.

 

[Ross Dolan]

Did I mention anywhere Democrats or Republicans?

No you did not.

Did I mention anywhere that you did?

All I stated is, that government cannot and should not be trusted to run our lives because they suck at it. Government doesn't do a better job of it anywhere. They don't do a better job of risk management. Just look at how fucked up flood insurance is. That's run by FEMA. After Katrina, FEMA colluded with the USGS to increase the size of floodplains across the US. This was done not because those floodplains were the wrong size, but rather in order to force more people to buy flood insurance because their mortgage company now demanded it based on the new numbers. That brought tens of thousands of new customers into the flood insurance market giving FEMA more money to shore up their losses due to incompetence in actuarial methodology.

Did I mention anywhere that government should be trusted to run our lives?

For the record, the government CAN run some things better than some private enterprise. Apparently you think otherwise.

Okay...that is allowed.

 

[Ross Dolan]

Other industrial countries have better healthcare, they cover everybody for half the cost. When Americans work abroad for while, they say our healthcare is one thing they do not miss.

How the American right misses that fact is beyond me. Our healthcare (and access to it) is about as screwed up as it is possible to be...and the American right just refuses to see it.

 

[NiftyNiblick]

You believe in the concept that humanity is altruistic, or if they aren't they can be forced to be. That's a fundamental concept of the Left.

I believe that altruism is up to the individual to determine. When it becomes forced, society is diminished not enriched.

You put society ahead of individuals. I put individuals ahead of society.

I believe that humanity is altruistic? Hardly. I'm not a utopian. Truth be told, I generally like dogs more than people.

The individuals that you put ahead of society, however, reap all the benefits of living in society.
Evolution didn't make lone hunters out of our species.
It made us social animals, and the ones who don't fit have to be culled from the herd for the inconvenience that they cause all the others.

Our species has constantly evolved from less to more socialism
from its very origin.
That's the arc of history that you're trying to struggle against, TAG,
and long term,
you have no chance of succeeding.

You're far more the idealist dreamer than I am.