"Men Went Silent Because Of US" - Feminist BREAKS Down After Seeing How Deep The Damage Goes

[Scott]

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_NC6w2gkro4&t=1220s


I mentioned this video in another thread, but I hadn't actually listened to much of it when I did. I've now listened to the whole thing, quite sobering in my view. Some may note the errors in grammar and say that it probably wasn't -really- written by a feminist. Maybe it wasn't. But I've been hearing about things like this for a while and I think a lot of good points were made. I'll just transcribe the concluding remarks below:

**

What if an entire generation grows up never learning to connect across gender? What if separation becomes default? What if we've created permanent damage? Drive home crying again. Seems to be happening a lot lately. This wasn't supposed to be how it felt. This was supposed to feel like victory, like justice, like a better world. Feels like everyone losing. Sit down and write essay I'll never publish. Title it, "Men went silent because of us." Document everything I've found, everything I've realized. Write about intentions versus outcomes. Write about how the most conscientious men were most affected. Write about how we filtered for worse behavior by making good behavior impossible. Write about loneliness and isolation and fear. Write about my own crisis of faith. Write about still believing in equality while recognizing we've created new inequality. Write about not knowing how to fix it. Write about being afraid to even try. Finish essay and save it in folder I'll never open. Too dangerous to share. Too important to delete. Testimony to unintended consequences. Evidence of damage we didn't mean to cause. Apology to generation of young men we taught to disappear. Confession that we got it wrong somehow even while getting it right. Sit in dark office staring at screen. 45 years old, 23years of feminist work, countless students taught, dedicated life to making things better. Maybe did, maybe didn't, maybe both. Think about Marcus and Andrew and all the quiet men in my classes. Think about my son who doesn't date anymore. Think about my nephew who sits in back and says nothing. Think about data showing millions of young men withdrawing into isolation.

We told them their presence could threaten, so they left. We told them to listen instead of speak, so they went silent. We told them to be aware of their power, so they became powerless. We told them women's comfort came first, so they removed themselves from the equation. Perfect compliance with everything we asked. Catastrophic result we never intended. Whisper to empty office. Men went silent because of us. Saying it aloud doesn't make it better. Doesn't fix anything. Doesn't give me answers. Just names the thing I can't unfeel. The knowing that sits heavy in chest. That decades of righteous work created shadow consequences. That intentions don't prevent damage. That we broke something while fixing something else. And I don't know how to unbreak it. Don't even know if I'm allowed to say it's broken. Career and reputation rest on maintaining that everything we did was right. But sitting alone with research and data and testimonies of isolated young men can't maintain the certainty anymore. Something went wrong. Something is still going wrong. And we did it. Not maliciously, not intentionally, not with desire to harm, but we did it nonetheless. They went silent because of us. And the silence is deafening.
**

 

[QP!]

Without watching the video first i will offer my view on the challenges between men and women in this changing landscape.

 

[QP!]

The biggest challenge, imo, as many men and women struggle for definition in this new landscape is the challenge to understand how our evolutionary pressures formed and driving us, often at a subconscious level, over thousands of years collides with our intellectual selves in the modern age.

As "thinking" people none of us want to believe that subconscious drivers can still inform, often to a greater degree, what we feel or know to be better, more enlightened way to address certain situations. We do not want to see ourselves as basically 'cavemen driven by instinct' and yet that is often the biggest challenge we have, especially when we are unaware of its influence.

 

[QP!]

So as men's and women's traditional roles greatly change the 'relationship dynamic' largely for men, as it was driven for thousands of years is devolving to near a point of irrelevances.

Yes men who used to be seen as 'correct and authoritative' even if wrong (could demand wife shut up or slap her for arguing) are no longer perceived by their wives/partners that way.

Men who used to be the required income and nest driver, and thus women NEEDED them, are less and less that.

Men who could cheat or abuse their wives, and she could not leave and always had to be the one the to 'compromise' as him leaving her would leave her broke and he could take the children, if he wanted them, as she had no means of support... no longer compels her to stay in the marriage.


Many people WRONGLY romanticize that historical period as BETTER citing 'lower rates of divorce' etc, but that is not the case. When you have one partner with almost no choices (woman), she will find a way to compromise, even if compromise means capitulation to abuse.

Men got all the benefits of that era while many women were expected to suffer through it.

As divorce laws and child support laws improved (to the point of over correction many times) women now had choices and those choices are what have lead to a lot of men feeling they have been 'silenced' or 'devalued' by todays more "feminists" women.

But the actual driver is that men's value, being created by thousands of years evolution as the income earner and protector has been driven increasingly down as women can now get those things increasingly without men or women contribute more in a 50/50 type dynamic.

It is not the 'fault' of feminist demands, imo, as to why men can feel silenced. Men, who suffer this, have not figured out what their power is... what their role is, in this changing landscape.

Not all men are trapped by this evolutionary feeling of 'needing to be the bread winner', 'needing to be the protector' to feel they have a roll and voice and those who can escape that evolutionary trigger can be happy and have voice in a more balanced relationship with a strong "feminist" partner.

But it also goes the other way, as many (not all) women are also trapped by their evolutionary triggers, and struggle to value any men who do provide that historical role, even as the woman achieves great success and wealth herself.

So as you can see, i see this topic as very related to the prior one i commented on. A search for answers to things, that occurs at surface levels while missing the much more impactful and deeply rooted evolutionary triggers that lead us to these places and often to the wrong answers.

 

[Scott]

So as men's and women's traditional roles greatly change the 'relationship dynamic' largely for men, as it was driven for thousands of years is devolving to near a point of irrelevances.

Yes men who used to be seen as 'correct and authoritative' even if wrong (could demand wife shut up or slap her for arguing) are no longer perceived by their wives/partners that way.

Men who used to be the required income and nest driver, and thus women NEEDED them, are less and less that.

Men who could cheat or abuse their wives, and she could not leave and always had to be the one the to 'compromise' as him leaving her would leave her broke and he could take the children, if he wanted them, as she had no means of support... no longer compels her to stay in the marriage.


Many people WRONGLY romanticize that historical period as BETTER citing 'lower rates of divorce' etc, but that is not the case. When you have one partner with almost no choices (woman), she will find a way to compromise, even if compromise means capitulation to abuse.

Men got all the benefits of that era while many women were expected to suffer through it.

As divorce laws and child support laws improved (to the point of over correction many times) women now had choices and those choices are what have lead to a lot of men feeling they have been 'silenced' or 'devalued' by todays more "feminists" women.

But the actual driver is that men's value, being created by thousands of years evolution as the income earner and protector has been driven increasingly down as women can now get those things increasingly without men or women contribute more in a 50/50 type dynamic.

It is not the 'fault' of feminist demands, imo, as to why men can feel silenced. Men, who suffer this, have not figured out what their power is... what their role is, in this changing landscape.

Not all men are trapped by this evolutionary feeling of 'needing to be the bread winner', 'needing to be the protector' to feel they have a roll and voice and those who can escape that evolutionary trigger can be happy and have voice in a more balanced relationship with a strong "feminist" partner.

But it also goes the other way, as many (not all) women are also trapped by their evolutionary triggers, and struggle to value any men who do provide that historical role, even as the woman achieves great success and wealth herself.

So as you can see, i see this topic as very related to the prior one i commented on. A search for answers to things, that occurs at surface levels while missing the much more impactful and deeply rooted evolutionary triggers that lead us to these places and often to the wrong answers.

I think you make some good points, but I also think you're missing the gist of what's brought up in the video that I mentioned in the opening post- I also quoted part of it in the opening post as well...

 

[SmarterthanYou]

Not all men are trapped by this evolutionary feeling of 'needing to be the bread winner', 'needing to be the protector' to feel they have a roll and voice and those who can escape that evolutionary trigger can be happy and have voice in a more balanced relationship with a strong "feminist" partner.

But it also goes the other way, as many (not all) women are also trapped by their evolutionary triggers, and struggle to value any men who do provide that historical role, even as the woman achieves great success and wealth herself.

So as you can see, i see this topic as very related to the prior one i commented on. A search for answers to things, that occurs at surface levels while missing the much more impactful and deeply rooted evolutionary triggers that lead us to these places and often to the wrong answers.

The single point of failure in all of this is women. The subconscious need of most women to require security from their chosen mate, bigger and stronger for protection, smarter and wiser for financial, gets relabeled to avoid them showing any hypocrisy about traditional gender roles.

 

[Jake Starkey]

It is MAGA type people that will not reach the gender gap, not women.

 

[QP!]

The single point of failure in all of this is women. The subconscious need of most women to require security from their chosen mate, bigger and stronger for protection, smarter and wiser for financial, gets relabeled to avoid them showing any hypocrisy about traditional gender roles.

That is way too reductionist to put 100% of blame on women for these struggles.

Men also have their subconscious evolutionary pressures. Many men simply cannot handle a woman who makes far more money than them. Many men cannot handle women women as equals who have every right to 'talk back' and not face any threat of violence for doing it.

While a lot of men are adapting to the changing dynamic, a ton of men struggle with it thus making successful relationships more difficult to achieve and maintain.

 

[QP!]

It is MAGA type people that will not reach the gender gap, not women.

Magat men, in particular, have the most challenges with this and many men became magat men over this issue.

The Make America Great Again movement has within it a promise, WRONGLY, to push men and women back to traditional gender roles, where men will be the primary bread winner, and women stay home, have babies and are take a subordinate role to the males.

None of that will happen which means those magat men will only face increasing distance and isolation from a growing group of women.

 

[SmarterthanYou]

That is way too reductionist to put 100% of blame on women for these struggles.

Men also have their subconscious evolutionary pressures. Many men simply cannot handle a woman who makes far more money than them. Many men cannot handle women women as equals who have every right to 'talk back' and not face any threat of violence for doing it.

While a lot of men are adapting to the changing dynamic, a ton of men struggle with it thus making successful relationships more difficult to achieve and maintain.

I said 'MOST' women, not all. so your premise is already incorrect.

To a certain extent, you are correct here. Men do have subconscious pressures. What most of them have realized that those pressures a man faces doesn't matter to anyone else, especially women. Most men CAN handle a woman that makes more money. It's most women that can't handle making more than their man. Most end up leaving that man with resentment because they feel that they were having to support that man instead of the other way around.......i.e. hypergamy. Most women also have the problem of not dealing with that power dynamic. When most women have that financial power, they abuse it.

Let's be realistic for a moment..............SOME men are adapting to that changing dynamic by becoming the submissive.........and later paying for it.

MOST men struggle with it due to unfair societal pressures that favor women.

The top 10% of men have no struggle at all because hypergamy still leaves them with a plethora of choices

 

[QP!]

I said 'MOST' women, not all. so your premise is already incorrect.

To a certain extent, you are correct here. Men do have subconscious pressures. What most of them have realized that those pressures a man faces doesn't matter to anyone else, especially women. Most men CAN handle a woman that makes more money. It's most women that can't handle making more than their man. Most end up leaving that man with resentment because they feel that they were having to support that man instead of the other way around.......i.e. hypergamy. Most women also have the problem of not dealing with that power dynamic. When most women have that financial power, they abuse it.

Let's be realistic for a moment..............SOME men are adapting to that changing dynamic by becoming the submissive.........and later paying for it.

MOST men struggle with it due to unfair societal pressures that favor women.

The top 10% of men have no struggle at all because hypergamy still leaves them with a plethora of choices

you said 'the single point of failure is women' that means 100% of the blame.

While i will not try to quantify if men or women are adapting more easily, as that is not really knowable, i will say there are massive communities of online men (incels and others) who are showing they are not adapting easily or at all.

And i know several men, with wives who earn more and have yet to meet any who i would say the men became 'submissive'. One of my best friends is a male school teacher, and was a jock (top in judo and football) and he married a gal who worked in Insurance and became a top executive making almost 5 times his annual salary. He not only had no issues with it, but loved it as he loved the lifestyle she could provide that teaching did not. He loved teaching and loved being a coach to his students and recognized that her earners allowed that without any financial pressures on their family.

No one calls him submissive.

And i am not denying hypergamy is part of the womens challenge. It is a real thing amongst the other challenges both sexes face.

 

[SmarterthanYou]

you said 'the single point of failure is women' that means 100% of the blame.

While i will not try to quantify if men or women are adapting more easily, as that is not really knowable, i will say there are massive communities of online men (incels and others) who are showing they are not adapting easily or at all.

And i know several men, with wives who earn more and have yet to meet any who i would say the men became 'submissive'. One of my best friends is a male school teacher, and was a jock (top in judo and football) and he married a gal who worked in Insurance and became a top executive making almost 5 times his annual salary. He not only had no issues with it, but loved it as he loved the lifestyle she could provide that teaching did not. He loved teaching and loved being a coach to his students and recognized that her earners allowed that without any financial pressures on their family.

No one calls him submissive.

And i am not denying hypergamy is part of the womens challenge. It is a real thing amongst the other challenges both sexes face.

Typical feminists, and male feminists, have an impediment to understanding that the exception does not make the rule. The exceptions you are referencing are less than 1% of the population demographics

 

[Jake Starkey]

That makes no sense, STY. What an idiotic statement.

 

[evince]

The single point of failure in all of this is women. The subconscious need of most women to require security from their chosen mate, bigger and stronger for protection, smarter and wiser for financial, gets relabeled to avoid them showing any hypocrisy about traditional gender roles.

You obviously hated your mother

 

[evince]

That makes no sense, STY. What an idiotic statement.

He hates women

Asking an asshole who hates women why men and womens roles have changed in society is meaningless

It’s like asking a child molester why children Make them horny

They would merely answer because they are sexy

Their minds are fucked up

They have MAJOR BRAIN MALFUNCTIONS

 

[evince]

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_NC6w2gkro4&t=1220s


I mentioned this video in another thread, but I hadn't actually listened to much of it when I did. I've now listened to the whole thing, quite sobering in my view. Some may note the errors in grammar and say that it probably wasn't -really- written by a feminist. Maybe it wasn't. But I've been hearing about things like this for a while and I think a lot of good points were made. I'll just transcribe the concluding remarks below:

**

What if an entire generation grows up never learning to connect across gender? What if separation becomes default? What if we've created permanent damage? Drive home crying again. Seems to be happening a lot lately. This wasn't supposed to be how it felt. This was supposed to feel like victory, like justice, like a better world. Feels like everyone losing. Sit down and write essay I'll never publish. Title it, "Men went silent because of us." Document everything I've found, everything I've realized. Write about intentions versus outcomes. Write about how the most conscientious men were most affected. Write about how we filtered for worse behavior by making good behavior impossible. Write about loneliness and isolation and fear. Write about my own crisis of faith. Write about still believing in equality while recognizing we've created new inequality. Write about not knowing how to fix it. Write about being afraid to even try. Finish essay and save it in folder I'll never open. Too dangerous to share. Too important to delete. Testimony to unintended consequences. Evidence of damage we didn't mean to cause. Apology to generation of young men we taught to disappear. Confession that we got it wrong somehow even while getting it right. Sit in dark office staring at screen. 45 years old, 23years of feminist work, countless students taught, dedicated life to making things better. Maybe did, maybe didn't, maybe both. Think about Marcus and Andrew and all the quiet men in my classes. Think about my son who doesn't date anymore. Think about my nephew who sits in back and says nothing. Think about data showing millions of young men withdrawing into isolation.

We told them their presence could threaten, so they left. We told them to listen instead of speak, so they went silent. We told them to be aware of their power, so they became powerless. We told them women's comfort came first, so they removed themselves from the equation. Perfect compliance with everything we asked. Catastrophic result we never intended. Whisper to empty office. Men went silent because of us. Saying it aloud doesn't make it better. Doesn't fix anything. Doesn't give me answers. Just names the thing I can't unfeel. The knowing that sits heavy in chest. That decades of righteous work created shadow consequences. That intentions don't prevent damage. That we broke something while fixing something else. And I don't know how to unbreak it. Don't even know if I'm allowed to say it's broken. Career and reputation rest on maintaining that everything we did was right. But sitting alone with research and data and testimonies of isolated young men can't maintain the certainty anymore. Something went wrong. Something is still going wrong. And we did it. Not maliciously, not intentionally, not with desire to harm, but we did it nonetheless. They went silent because of us. And the silence is deafening.
**

This is not real


I don’t trust your source

 

[Scott]

This is not real


I don’t trust your source

I actually mentioned in the opening post that I myself questioned the source. That being said, I also mentioned that I'd been hearing of things of this nature for a while now, so in a sense, it doesn't matter whether the source is not actually a feminist with second thoughts.

 

[Jake Starkey]

Men having nothing to be worried about from women.

Be respectful is all.

 

[Scott]

Men having nothing to be worried about from women.

Be respectful is all.

Did you see the video or at least read the bit from it that I quoted in the opening post?

 

[Jake Starkey]

Scott, it is nutty stuff. You believe nutty stuff. Because you were treated badly growing and are nutty now is not going to start anyone to hurt women.