Misogyny

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I do not think that today, Tucker Carlson and Pat Buchanon could have the conversation I just heard them have about Hillary Clinton, if it were about a black man.

And it is constant. Night after night after night. Just the most absolute, nastiest misogynistic, woman-bashing and passing of negative stereotypes. "Every man in America has heard that shrill voice at one time or the other from their wives". "There's just something about her that feels castrating". She's "calculating and ambitious". Please, somebody, name ONE male Presidential contender who IS NOT AMBITIOUS??? Just one. Only Hillary is termed so, over and over and over. And of course, someone like Rudy who has flipped positions on every major social issue since he started running, isn't "calculating". These are negative female stereotypes, and they are BULLSHIT. Chris Matthews, Tucker Carlson and Pat Buchanon are the biggest offenders. And I don't even watch FOX.

And I am really fed up to here with it.

The black intellectual feminist, Bell Hooks, to me, made a very convincing case in "Ain't I a Woman" that sexism is a stronger force in society than racism.

I believe that what is going on now is proving her to be right. YOu could not make those kind of stereotypical statements (whatever the racial equivalent of them would be) about Obama on MSNBC, you could not do it, night after night after night. But if you want to bash around a female, well, by God you can still do that in this country, and get paid good money for it.

And you know, I am getting to the point, where I am going to vote for Hillary just because of this shit. And because of issues, ISSUES, she is not my first choice, but this shit has got to stop.
 
And that is my rant for today, and if any of you men feel like disputing this post, make sure you are holding onto your balls, because there is something about me that just "feels castrating".

:)
:)
 
LOL, not me I agree, I think those "men" are just scared excrementless of her.

I would love to see her become president just to see those types have strokes.
It would be hillarious. No pun intended.

I think she would do ok as madame president as well, but the sideshow would be great.

I see the ERA is making a comeback, I hope it passes. But remember with equal rights comes equal responsibilities.
 
Me ? nope have not read it. I don't hate women, I think I treat them too good and they wind up taking advangage of me.

Just label me burned one time too many to want to be burned again.
 
I don't see how "calculating and ambitious" would be a negative for a Presidential Candidate. Nor would a strong presence that they call "castrating". Almost all of what they say about her they would expect to see in a male candidate.
 
"There's just something about her that feels castrating". She's "calculating and ambitious". Please, somebody, name ONE male Presidential contender who IS NOT AMBITIOUS??? Just one.

calculating and ambitious is par for the course for anyone who wants to be prez.

What do they expect? A Stepford wife? A stepford wife isn't cut out to be prez.
 
The black intellectual feminist, Bell Hooks, to me, made a very convincing case in "Ain't I a Woman" that sexism is a stronger force in society than racism.

I believe that what is going on now is proving her to be right. YOu could not make those kind of stereotypical statements (whatever the racial equivalent of them would be) about Obama on MSNBC, you could not do it, night after night after night. But if you want to bash around a female, well, by God you can still do that in this country, and get paid good money for it.

And you know, I am getting to the point, where I am going to vote for Hillary just because of this shit. And because of issues, ISSUES, she is not my first choice, but this shit has got to stop.

In my opinion it is inappropriate to compare sexism and racism or say one is worse than the other. They share some things in common. First they both arise out of ignorance and also a desire to monopolize the power structure. However there are far more differences.

One of the most insidious things about racism is that racism of the past will directly effect your life and that of your descendants. While with sexism man has passed down sexist ideas from generation to generation women are not burdened with the legacy through their genetics. A white woman has many things against her in this society but one advantage she can have that a black man cannot is having white priveledge handed down to her. I know you are well versed in this topic so for brevity sake I will not expand on the idea of white priveledge although anyone else curious about it may inquire.

Being a minority myself and being married to a black lesbian I may be more qualified than average to see the effects of different types of discrimination and how they affect different groups.

You brought up the issue of media. You are correct in your assessment that women are not as shielded from being stereotyped as blacks are. However media representation is not everything and shouldn't be the only barometer of how different minorities are being treated in relation to one another.

This is something I am all too familiar with. It often irks me that people of asian descent can so readily be mocked in the media especially those of south asian descent. Watch enough television and you will se what I mean. Asians are seen as a model minority and thus it is ok to make fun of them. Hell we had an incident on this very site a few months ago that demonstrated this phenomenon.

However although my minority group is more negatively depicted and lampooned in the media I would never present an argument that predjudice against Asians is worse than that directed at another minority group. I have experience my share of public outrages at various insensitivies: Howard Coble, Sue Myrick, Hillary Clinton, Shaquille O'neal and don't even get me started on New York radio. On the other hand I also know that I am less likely to be denied employment because of my appearance than a black man usually is.

It is all different and frankly I think we should aim our attention at the perpetrators of ignorance instead of keeping score as far as how we're doing vs. other minorities.
 
I hope that this comes out right, I'm putting my answers in bold.

IHateGovernment said:
The black intellectual feminist, Bell Hooks, to me, made a very convincing case in "Ain't I a Woman" that sexism is a stronger force in society than racism.

I believe that what is going on now is proving her to be right. YOu could not make those kind of stereotypical statements (whatever the racial equivalent of them would be) about Obama on MSNBC, you could not do it, night after night after night. But if you want to bash around a female, well, by God you can still do that in this country, and get paid good money for it.

And you know, I am getting to the point, where I am going to vote for Hillary just because of this shit. And because of issues, ISSUES, she is not my first choice, but this shit has got to stop.

In my opinion it is inappropriate to compare sexism and racism or say one is worse than the other. They share some things in common. First they both arise out of ignorance and also a desire to monopolize the power structure. However there are far more differences. No, it's not a matter of saying one is worse than the other, or to in any way compare the victims of each. She set out to show which was a stronger force in history. This is a black feminist writing, first off, about the marginalization of the black woman from both the civil rights movement of the 60's (Stokey Charmichael's "there is a place for women in the movement, it's prone), where she shows that the black male had become, or felt really, so demasculanized by white society that this turned into a really virulent sexism. Further, how the black woman was also maginalized from the feminist movements, both first wave (obviously) and second wave as well. The second wave feminist movement, in this country, was largely a white, middle to upper middle class movement, which did not even take into account less economically fortunate white women, and pretty much left out black women all together. So she speaks of both racism and sexism, and then sets out to show which has proved to be the stronger force in holding the black woman back.

One of the most insidious things about racism is that racism of the past will directly effect your life and that of your descendants. While with sexism man has passed down sexist ideas from generation to generation women are not burdened with the legacy through their genetics. A white woman has many things against her in this society but one advantage she can have that a black man cannot is having white priveledge handed down to her. I know you are well versed in this topic so for brevity sake I will not expand on the idea of white priveledge although anyone else curious about it may inquire. Yes, when you speak solely of white women, the arguement changes a bit, certainly. And I'm not going to argue that white privilege isn't an enormous benefit, of course it is. So is being a man. The question becomes, which bestows the most priveledge at birth. A white woman has more priveledge, bestowed upon her birth, economically, than a black man. Just as one example, her family are far more likely to own a home, avery valuable asset, which will in some form, be passed on to her. But she is not as priviledged upon birth as a white man.

Being a minority myself and being married to a black lesbian I may be more qualified than average to see the effects of different types of discrimination and how they affect different groups.

You brought up the issue of media. You are correct in your assessment that women are not as shielded from being stereotyped as blacks are. However media representation is not everything and shouldn't be the only barometer of how different minorities are being treated in relation to one another. I agree, that this is absolutely true. But I was speaking of the attitudes of the white male, and the white male only. And I think that sexism is still rampant in them, and I think that they show it at any given opportunity, and further, I think they are gleeful about it! Now I will tell you I have my doubts that the white man will vote for a black man as President in large enough numbers to make him President. But I have less doubt that they won't do it for a woman. And historically, this has held to be the case, and therefore, we should have a black male president before we have a white female president. What will not have in our lifetimes IHG? A black female president. Why not? Because the black female, the victim of both racism and sexism, is still saddled with far too much.

This is something I am all too familiar with. It often irks me that people of asian descent can so readily be mocked in the media especially those of south asian descent. Watch enough television and you will se what I mean. Asians are seen as a model minority and thus it is ok to make fun of them. Hell we had an incident on this very site a few months ago that demonstrated this phenomenon. This is a great example of people only seeing, or no, mostly seeing, only what is personally infuriating to themselves, because I have not noticed this on television. I do vaguely remember an incident here, but not the particulars. I'll try to be more open to noticing this.
However although my minority group is more negatively depicted and lampooned in the media I would never present an argument that predjudice against Asians is worse than that directed at another minority group. I have experience my share of public outrages at various insensitivies: Howard Coble, Sue Myrick, Hillary Clinton, Shaquille O'neal and don't even get me started on New York radio. On the other hand I also know that I am less likely to be denied employment because of my appearance than a black man usually is.

It is all different and frankly I think we should aim our attention at the perpetrators of ignorance instead of keeping score as far as how we're doing vs. other minorities. I agree, and I don't think that she nor I in quoting her, was trying to make the case of one being worse, but rather of showing which was a stronger force. And in this case, which one is today, a more acceptable force, among the boys. This does not mean that racism is no longer institutionalized, and doing its quiet, under the table harm, every day. It is and it does. But you can't get a couple of white guys sitting around laughing about it on television, and that to me, is very interesting.
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Damocles said:
I don't see how "calculating and ambitious" would be a negative for a Presidential Candidate. Nor would a strong presence that they call "castrating". Almost all of what they say about her they would expect to see in a male candidate.
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Well of course it wouldn't be a negative. What if you had an uncalculating President? One who didn't calculate the possible negative and positive outcomes of an action?

Oh, well actually, we know what would happen! So I guess, in a way, a calculating person is the political opposite of an ideologue, and really, something that most of us do want in a President. And of course, most of the men running for president, and have run for president, and have been president, have been calculating.
 
IHG, feel free to dispute me on anything I've said here. I'm extremely fascinated by this subject and am constantly reading more and more about it. The reading on this can get difficult, because you know, the really interesting stuff isn't Betty Friedan. That is so white bread, it's not even funny. You first get opened to the some class perspective, and some Freudian and Marx perspective when you read DeBeauvoir, and you know where my heart leans to, and that just leads you to if you want to read American feminists, to the black intellectuals because they are nearly the only ones writing from not just the gender perspective, and definitely not from the priviledged class' perspective.

And I am open to other viewpoints on this, which, on many things I am not. lol
 
uscitizen said:
LOL, not me I agree, I think those "men" are just scared excrementless of her.

I would love to see her become president just to see those types have strokes.
It would be hillarious. No pun intended.

I think she would do ok as madame president as well, but the sideshow would be great.

I see the ERA is making a comeback, I hope it passes. But remember with equal rights comes equal responsibilities.
Click to expand...

Ok usc, I can only let so much go!

Equal responsibilities? Usc I get that you were married to someone who was lazy, I guess apparently did not work either outside of the home or inside it, but your home was not a microcosm of the country at large.

Study after study has consistently shown that women are not only working outside of the home, but continue even today, to take on a larger than 50% share of the housework and the child-rearing.

The typical family is now dependent on her salary as much as her husbands (I am not saying this is a good thing), and she is still cooking, cleaning and raising the children. NOt solo, (if she is married of course), but there is a lot of evidence that the working woman continues to shoulder more than her fair share of the homework so to speak.

So, she already has equal responsibility, and in many cases, and then some.
 
And I think that sexism is still rampant in them, and I think that they show it at any given opportunity, and further, I think they are gleeful about it!
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To be fair sexism is still rampant in minority communities as well. Particularly communities rooted in religion. From my own experiences there is definitely institutionalized sexism within the church and outside the church. I don't think its fair to say its a white male issue.
 
Darla said:
Ok usc, I can only let so much go!

Equal responsibilities? Usc I get that you were married to someone who was lazy, I guess apparently did not work either outside of the home or inside it, but your home was not a microcosm of the country at large.

Study after study has consistently shown that women are not only working outside of the home, but continue even today, to take on a larger than 50% share of the housework and the child-rearing.

The typical family is now dependent on her salary as much as her husbands (I am not saying this is a good thing), and she is still cooking, cleaning and raising the children. NOt solo, (if she is married of course), but there is a lot of evidence that the working woman continues to shoulder more than her fair share of the homework so to speak.

So, she already has equal responsibility, and in many cases, and then some.
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In the case of my second wife no children were involved....
She was the one with a college degree making much more money than I.
she ran up 50K on credit cards and then quit her job because it stressed her out.
I wiped out all assets to avoid bankruptcy, worked 2 jobs, etc, etc,etc

Now I realize that all women are not like this, but she was. The first wife was a slut, and I was incredibly niave to marry her. Was due to holy roller upbringing.
 
As I've said (too) often, I simply do not understand why so many people, especially -- though not exclusively -- on the right, seem to hate Hillary Clinton so much. I mean by that I really don't get it: the phenomenon leaves me genuinely perplexed and at a loss.

Lacking any other explanation, I have to conclude that Darla is right. A large part of the hate for Hillary is plain, old fashioned sexism. A man with the same personality traits would be a "golden boy" candidate and the front runner by far. Instead, she's having to battle this mysterious force of negativity that almost no one wants to put a name to.

Almost no one. :)

Sexism afflicts a greater number of people than racism does. Ironically, it impacts the majority of people in the United States, in fact. By that standard alone I think it's legitimate to say it's a bigger problem. In addition, I believe that many of the effects of sexism on the individual are actually more like the effects of racism than IH8 is crediting.
 
LadyT said:
To be fair sexism is still rampant in minority communities as well. Particularly communities rooted in religion. From my own experiences there is definitely institutionalized sexism within the church and outside the church. I don't think its fair to say its a white male issue.
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No I don't mean that it is. It is the white male who, dressed in the clothes of a respectable pundit or journalist, can get paid a lot of money to bash women on news programs however. In other words, it is the white man who can make sexism respectable and main stream.
 
No, it's not a matter of saying one is worse than the other, or to in any way compare the victims of each. She set out to show which was a stronger force in history. This is a black feminist writing, first off, about the marginalization of the black woman from both the civil rights movement of the 60's (Stokey Charmichael's "there is a place for women in the movement, it's prone), where she shows that the black male had become, or felt really, so demasculanized by white society that this turned into a really virulent sexism. Further, how the black woman was also maginalized from the feminist movements, both first wave (obviously) and second wave as well. The second wave feminist movement, in this country, was largely a white, middle to upper middle class movement, which did not even take into account less economically fortunate white women, and pretty much left out black women all together. So she speaks of both racism and sexism, and then sets out to show which has proved to be the stronger force in holding the black woman back.

Understood. I'm familiar with the movements of which she speaks.

[/i]Yes, when you speak solely of white women, the arguement changes a bit, certainly. And I'm not going to argue that white privilege isn't an enormous benefit, of course it is. So is being a man. The question becomes, which bestows the most priveledge at birth. A white woman has more priveledge, bestowed upon her birth, economically, than a black man. Just as one example, her family are far more likely to own a home, avery valuable asset, which will in some form, be passed on to her. But she is not as priviledged upon birth as a white man. [/i]

I fully agree

I agree, that this is absolutely true. But I was speaking of the attitudes of the white male, and the white male only. And I think that sexism is still rampant in them, and I think that they show it at any given opportunity, and further, I think they are gleeful about it! Now I will tell you I have my doubts that the white man will vote for a black man as President in large enough numbers to make him President. But I have less doubt that they won't do it for a woman. And historically, this has held to be the case, and therefore, we should have a black male president before we have a white female president. What will not have in our lifetimes IHG? A black female president. Why not? Because the black female, the victim of both racism and sexism, is still saddled with far too much.

Of this I am not sure I agree with you. You could be right. However, there are more females than ethnic minorities in the House and Senate. The Presidency is another matter but it seems than more men have been pulling a lever for a female than for a non-white candidate. Granted Women make 51% of the population so it could be simply that their are more female candidates because there are more females. I do not know if the proportion favors one group over the other.

I agree, and I don't think that she nor I in quoting her, was trying to make the case of one being worse, but rather of showing which was a stronger force. And in this case, which one is today, a more acceptable force, among the boys. This does not mean that racism is no longer institutionalized, and doing its quiet, under the table harm, every day. It is and it does. But you can't get a couple of white guys sitting around laughing about it on television, and that to me, is very interesting.

Within the realm of television punditry I would say the voice of sexism is stronger than racism. In other social situations the force of racism may be stronger than sexism. It really depends. If you watch your local television news you can see that it is doing more to promote racism than sexism by always being sure to show the picture of the big scary black man.
 
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