More problems in Iraq

wiseones2cents said:
It is still very possible. Massive civil war was diverted when many groups decided to join the political process, though if they lose faith in the political process, there will be violence.
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yes, it is still possible. It is also still possible that Jesus and Mohamed will come back strolling the streets of Baghdad hand in hand.

Funny how you proclaim democracy failed in Iraq only to then state above that the civil war so many on the left proclaimed was happening in 2006, turned into 'many groups deciding to join the POLITICAL process'.


America is lucky that Sadr's militia stood down when it did. It would have been a blood bath on both sides. Sadr chose that diplomatic/political route and as a result maintained(and kept alive) his power base.
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I agree it would have been a bad situation for both sides had Sadr not chosen the DEMOCRATIC route vs. a continuation of the blood bath on both sides. Thanks for admitting that Democracy is indeed working in Iraq.

Though if the Americans dont withdraw Dec 2011? They will come out swinging and they will be much more prepared and armed.
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Most likely true.

I have stated from day one, that ALL Iraqis(Shiite, Sunni, Kurds, ect..) should have strong representation in government. More of a council than a presidency. Only then will there be equality and peace in Iraq.
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Who the fuck are you to tell them how they should run their government. They have the ability to decide if they want a 'council' or a 'President'.

What do you consider 'strong' representation? The people of Iraq have elected their leaders. The Sunni, Shiite and Kurds are all represented in the government. The Sunni by virtue of demographics are the dominant party. We are also starting to see more secular leaders being put in place. Which is a positive sign.

To be clear, the democracy is still young in Iraq. They are still finding their own way and tailoring the system to fit their culture/country. There will likely be terrorist attacks for many years to come as the last thing terrorists want to see is democracy spread throughout the middle east. ESPECIALLY if the governments elected trend towards secular vs. sectarian.
 
wiseones2cents said:
Really? I guess you dont read the news about the Kurds complaining and the fact that Maliki has been going after Sunni politicians that were elected.
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Feel free and post links to stories highlighting what you are claiming. The bulk of what I have seen has been more Kurd vs. Kurd factions as to who controls the KURDISH vote. They still hold over 55 seats. Which is fairly representative of their population vs. the population as a whole.


Comparing Iraqi society to American is ridiculous you moron.
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I am not comparing Iraqi society to American as a whole. I am comparing the political environment to there to here. There are many similarities, though Iraq would more closely represent the UK's multi party system vs. our two party system.

You deny that there was sectarian violence in Iraq for years? It has calmed down other than a few isolated incidents in the last few weeks attacking Shiites, since most have chosen the political path. Though tensions are still high and if the political process fails, you will see sectarian violence re-emerge. SOunds to me like you have been living in a cave and have no clue of what has been going on in Iraq since the invasion.
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No you moron. I have never stated there wasn't sectarian violence. That is simply a moronic attempt to create a straw man on your part. But sectarian violence has most certainly diminished since 2006. Most of the deaths in recent years have been due to Al Queda vs. Iraq attacks. Not due to Sunni on Shiite (or vice versa).

Sounds to me like you want to live in 2006 and continue pretending that what was happening then is still happening now.


Sure they were and still hold some degree of weight. Why do you think the Americans/Iraqis had to crack down on the Mehdi Army? They disbanded in 2008 but are now regrouping. So they are relavant today.
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Seriously, do you just randomly pull shit out of your ass? I never stated that Sadr's army was irrelevant nor did I state they couldn't reform. I do however continue to state that you are flat out wrong in your assertion that democracy has somehow failed in Iraq.

You yourself have stated that the groups are still trying to work things out POLITICALLY.
 
Superfreak said:
yes, it is still possible. It is also still possible that Jesus and Mohamed will come back strolling the streets of Baghdad hand in hand.

Funny how you proclaim democracy failed in Iraq only to then state above that the civil war so many on the left proclaimed was happening in 2006, turned into 'many groups deciding to join the POLITICAL process'.
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Its clear you do not read much news. At least not carefully. The Sunnis for the last week have warned that if they are left out of the political process, sectarian violence will flare up. But I guess you know more than the iraqis(note sarcasm).

Yes, the political process to REMOVE AMERICA from their soil. Considering that the majority of Iraqis are Shiites? Democracy would give them all the power and isolate the rest. Which would be understandable since the Majority rules, if not for the fact that a large part of the population which are Sunni have run the nation and do not want to give up their power. Therefore if they cannot reach a political agreement, there will be sectarian violence. This is why western democracy will not work in the middle east.

And although I support democracy? I also see it as a tool for western elites to install puppets and buy out candidates to serve their interests and not the people's interests. This is not democracy. But only the illusion of democracy.




I agree it would have been a bad situation for both sides had Sadr not chosen the DEMOCRATIC route vs. a continuation of the blood bath on both sides. Thanks for admitting that Democracy is indeed working in Iraq.
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Democracy is not working. DIPLOMACY is working.

Who the fuck are you to tell them how they should run their government. They have the ability to decide if they want a 'council' or a 'President'.
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And who the fuck is America to stick their nose all over the world and install puppets when they cant even run their own fucking country right?

This is my opinion and I am entitled to it.

What do you consider 'strong' representation? The people of Iraq have elected their leaders. The Sunni, Shiite and Kurds are all represented in the government. The Sunni by virtue of demographics are the dominant party. We are also starting to see more secular leaders being put in place. Which is a positive sign.
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Sunni's by virtue of demographics?? UMMMM Shiites are the majority. Sunnis only came to power because they were backed by Western money and CIA info. Just as I thought. You dont know what the heck you are talking about.

To be clear, the democracy is still young in Iraq. They are still finding their own way and tailoring the system to fit their culture/country. There will likely be terrorist attacks for many years to come as the last thing terrorists want to see is democracy spread throughout the middle east. ESPECIALLY if the governments elected trend towards secular vs. sectarian.
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Western Democracy doesn't work in America. Since the politicians are corporate puppets and it wont work anywhere else.

Yes the sectarian candidates are financed by western elites and governments for profit. And they are recognized for what they are. Infidels.
 
Southern Man said:
No, about Iraq.
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I'm still waiting for you to point out my lie or contradiction. i have already clarified myslef to super freak.

As we seen by the election outcome? The Shiites will not recognize Alawi as the winner. So much for democracy in Iraq.

Now the two main Shiite parties are coming together and forming a government, leaving Alawi and the Sunnis in the dark.

This is NOT democracy.

Its political, Its diplomatic, but not democratic.

Anyways, I must go now, but I will be back tomorrow.
 
wiseones2cents said:
I'm still waiting for you to point out my lie or contradiction. i have already clarified myslef to super freak.

As we seen by the election outcome? The Shiites will not recognize Alawi as the winner. So much for democracy in Iraq.

Now the two main Shiite parties are coming together and forming a government, leaving Alawi and the Sunnis in the dark.

This is NOT democracy.

Its political, Its diplomatic, but not democratic.

Anyways, I must go now, but I will be back tomorrow.
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The west would finance a coup to over throw it.

Now in Iraq democracy has again proven to be a failure.
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The first sentence is a lie and contradicts the second.

But what's your point? We don't give a fuck about Iraq, as long as they don't cause us any problems.
 
wiseones2cents said:
Its clear you do not read much news. At least not carefully. The Sunnis for the last week have warned that if they are left out of the political process, sectarian violence will flare up. But I guess you know more than the iraqis(note sarcasm).
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AGAIN... POST LINKS TO STORIES THAT BACK UP YOUR CLAIM... IF THEY ARE 'SAYING' THAT, THEN THERE SHOULD BE SOMETHING YOU COULD LINK TO TO REFLECT THAT.

Yes, the political process to REMOVE AMERICA from their soil. Considering that the majority of Iraqis are Shiites? Democracy would give them all the power and isolate the rest. Which would be understandable since the Majority rules, if not for the fact that a large part of the population which are Sunni have run the nation and do not want to give up their power. Therefore if they cannot reach a political agreement, there will be sectarian violence. This is why western democracy will not work in the middle east.
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Except AGAIN... it IS working right now in Iraq. A point you continue to at times ignore and at other times proclaim. You are clearly lost on this topic and simply spouting talking points.


And although I support democracy? I also see it as a tool for western elites to install puppets and buy out candidates to serve their interests and not the people's interests. This is not democracy. But only the illusion of democracy.
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The Iraqi people chose their current leaders. The US is NOT benefiting from your proclaimed attempts to buy the leadership of Iraq as not one of the oil contracts went to a US firm. Again you are simply spouting off ignorant talking points that are simply your OPINION, without any basis in reality.

Democracy is not working. DIPLOMACY is working.
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the stupidity of the above is astounding.

And who the fuck is America to stick their nose all over the world and install puppets when they cant even run their own fucking country right?

This is my opinion and I am entitled to it.
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yes, you are most certainly entitled to your opinion. That doesn't change the fact that your opinions are based on nothing more than 2006 talking points and are not based in reality. But again, you are entitled to be an idiot if you so choose.


Sunni's by virtue of demographics?? UMMMM Shiites are the majority. Sunnis only came to power because they were backed by Western money and CIA info. Just as I thought. You dont know what the heck you are talking about.
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My fault on that, I misspoke, I was obviously siphoning through too much of your crap and got ahead of myself when typing.


Western Democracy doesn't work in America. Since the politicians are corporate puppets and it wont work anywhere else.

Yes the sectarian candidates are financed by western elites and governments for profit. And they are recognized for what they are. Infidels.
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so bottom line, you are just wanting to vent against democracy in general???

You should have stated that from the beginning so that others would not waste their time with your idiocy.
 
Southern Man said:
The first sentence is a lie and contradicts the second.

But what's your point? We don't give a fuck about Iraq, as long as they don't cause us any problems.
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No contradiction.

The point is there are problems in Iraq like the thread title suggests. and America does give a fuck about Iraq because of its oil reserves.

And it is not them causing problems for you. It is America causing problems for THEM. Though if they kick your ass out of Iraq and retake control of the oil fields. You will be taught a good lesson.
 
Superfreak said:
AGAIN... POST LINKS TO STORIES THAT BACK UP YOUR CLAIM... IF THEY ARE 'SAYING' THAT, THEN THERE SHOULD BE SOMETHING YOU COULD LINK TO TO REFLECT THAT.
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There are hundreds. Do you even read the news? here is another just today.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/csm/20100505/wl_csm/299260

The problem is you are talking with your head up your ass. I read about 10 articles a day on the situation in Iraq and have been doing so for a number of years.



Except AGAIN... it IS working right now in Iraq. A point you continue to at times ignore and at other times proclaim. You are clearly lost on this topic and simply spouting talking points.
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WRONG! And it is clear it is NOT. Since the so called democratic winner(Alawi) will have very little say in government. Now I am absolutely positive you are clueless to Iraqi politics.

And wait until America leaves. We will see how your precious Democracy works in Iraq.




The Iraqi people chose their current leaders. The US is NOT benefiting from your proclaimed attempts to buy the leadership of Iraq as not one of the oil contracts went to a US firm. Again you are simply spouting off ignorant talking points that are simply your OPINION, without any basis in reality.
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Just because you got stupid written on your forehead, does not mean the rest do also. The man that supposedly won the elections will never get a chance to rule. When I say Western Elites? It also includes Europeans. Since European elites also rule America.

They are just using the American military to do its biding.



the stupidity of the above is astounding.
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No your stupidity is astounding. Even communist countries can be diplomatic.



yes, you are most certainly entitled to your opinion. That doesn't change the fact that your opinions are based on nothing more than 2006 talking points and are not based in reality. But again, you are entitled to be an idiot if you so choose.
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The Mehdi army was disbanded in 2008 and are now regrouping to push America out come 2011. How is that 2006 idiot?




My fault on that, I misspoke, I was obviously siphoning through too much of your crap and got ahead of myself when typing.
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One mistake is forgivable, but it is clear that you are clueless in regards to many things on Iraq.




so bottom line, you are just wanting to vent against democracy in general???

You should have stated that from the beginning so that others would not waste their time with your idiocy.
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Bottom line is that democracy is a joke. It will work where there is gullible people, but it wont work where people want to see action(like in the Middle east) not words and fake promises like in America.
 
wiseones2cents said:
No contradiction.

The point is there are problems in Iraq like the thread title suggests. and America does give a fuck about Iraq because of its oil reserves.

And it is not them causing problems for you. It is America causing problems for THEM. Though if they kick your ass out of Iraq and retake control of the oil fields. You will be taught a good lesson.
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We have more oil reserves in Alaska then they do in their entire country. We don't give a fuck about them as long as they don't make trouble for our allies.
 
Southern Man said:
We have more oil reserves in Alaska then they do in their entire country. We don't give a fuck about them as long as they don't make trouble for our allies.
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Again talking nonsense. The oil In Iraq is very good quality and cheap to refine.

Which spells major profit.

And the global elites want to make sure they control EVERY resource.

Tell me? Which one of your allies was Iraq bothering when the USA attacked Iraq?

Kuwait? Nah, Kuwait is Britain's bitch.

Do you want to know what happened there? Saddam cut western elites out of Oil profits. The Kuwaitis tried to slant drill from the Kuwaiti border to steal Iraqi oil. When Saddam informed the USA of what the Kuwaitis were doing, the USA said they don't get involved in border disputes, so Iraq attacked Kuwait. Which gave the western Elites the green light to attack and regain control of Iraqi oil fields.

Again. Tell me which of your allies Iraq bothered? Iran? America is the one that encouraged Iraq to attack Iran, since there was an anti-American revolution growing in Iran calling America the great satan. After they over threw the American puppet leader the shah.

Again. Tell me which American ally did Iraq mess with? If anything its western elites messing with the middle east.
 
wiseones2cents said:
Again talking nonsense. The oil In Iraq is very good quality and cheap to refine.

Which spells major profit.

And the global elites want to make sure they control EVERY resource.

Tell me? Which one of your allies was Iraq bothering when the USA attacked Iraq?

Kuwait? Nah, Kuwait is Britain's bitch.

Do you want to know what happened there? Saddam cut western elites out of Oil profits. The Kuwaitis tried to slant drill from the Kuwaiti border to steal Iraqi oil. When Saddam informed the USA of what the Kuwaitis were doing, the USA said they don't get involved in border disputes, so Iraq attacked Kuwait. Which gave the western Elites the green light to attack and regain control of Iraqi oil fields.

Again. Tell me which of your allies Iraq bothered? Iran? America is the one that encouraged Iraq to attack Iran, since there was an anti-American revolution growing in Iran calling America the great satan. After they over threw the American puppet leader the shah.

Again. Tell me which American ally did Iraq mess with? If anything its western elites messing with the middle east.
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And shipping the shit?

I suggest you read this to find out which allies Saddam was messing with.
http://search.barnesandnoble.com/Connection/Stephen-F-Hayes/e/9780060746735
 
Southern Man said:
And shipping the shit?

I suggest you read this to find out which allies Saddam was messing with.
http://search.barnesandnoble.com/Connection/Stephen-F-Hayes/e/9780060746735
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HAHAHAHAHAA! All the so called connections were proven to be? False!! Saddam is secular and is as anti-Islamic as it gets.

You ate all the B.S. but I on the other hand researched it and it was all B.S. with all the sources being PROVEN false. So try again.

Tell me which allies Saddam messed with?
 
wiseones2cents said:
HAHAHAHAHAA! All the so called connections were proven to be? False!! Saddam is secular and is as anti-Islamic as it gets.

You ate all the B.S. but I on the other hand researched it and it was all B.S. with all the sources being PROVEN false. So try again.
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Cite.
 
Southern Man said:
Oh look, first hit:

http://www.wnd.com/index.php?pageId=25153

Osama-Saddam links 9-11 commission missed
Overwhelming evidence of connection between al-Qaida, Iraq before attack

Your attack on the messenger is now joyfully anticipated. :)
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Yawn. More right wing propoganda.

This is all B.S. and the commission was a smoke screen.

Also the fact that they found new evidence 5 years after the fact all was proven false is more concocted evidence to keep naive people like you believing lies.

The FACTS are that Saddam had absolutely no ties to Al-Qaeda. This has been proven over and over again.

They were all lies made by the bush administration for a case for war. The WMD, The supposed yellow cake from Africa, the ties to Osama Bin Laden ALL PROVEN FALSE.

Here is a link for you to investigate.

http://www.sourcewatch.org/index.ph...den,_al_Qaeda_and_weapons_of_mass_destruction

The key link disappeared(Senate: No Prewar Saddam-al-Qaida Ties) but I went and googled it and am using a FOX news source. By the way. This is the CIA opinion. Not some mickey mouse journalist like the one you presented.

http://www.foxnews.com/wires/2006Sep08/0,4670,IraqReport,00.html
 
First off Al Qaeda in Iraq is attacking Sh'ites in Iraq to create internal factionalism so that Sunni and Shiites will fight one another and create further instability in the country. However, even if there were not there, Shiites and Sunni will never get along because of a serious rift in dogma. Sunnis are the minority and will find themselves marginalized more and more as the US withdraws from Iraq. 20 years after we are gone Iraq will be an Islamic nation.
 
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