I don't think Trump will fail, but he won't succeed either. The hard decision I think will have to be made by someone willing to own the collapse of Afghanistan. Or failing that, a miracle.
More Troops to Afghan
- Thread starter Jarod
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I don't think Trump will fail, but he won't succeed either. The hard decision I think will have to be made by someone willing to own the collapse of Afghanistan. Or failing that, a miracle.
educate yourself: you can't nationbuild with 14k troops
Besides the nationbuild has already been done
https://www.cnbc.com/2017/08/21/tru...ly-to-focus-on-counter-terrorism-efforts.html
National security analysts say there have been bombings in major cities by the Taliban and other militant groups but that Afghan security forces have done a reasonable job of holding onto the population centers.
there's a need to increase air support as part of the counter terrorism effort too. "If we sharply increase the number of air sorties, that could do a lot to sustain things on the military side. And it would over time build up an effective Afghan force. So it could accomplish a great deal."
ugelman said there remain benefits to adding another 3,000 to 4,000 U.S. forces since "it would be able to better plug the gaps in capacity that we see from Afghan security force."
Kugelman also said it would help the Afghan security forces deal with weaknesses in intelligence collection and problems with air support and air cover.
Darth Omar
Russian asset
'Nation building' is a kind of catch-all buzz word.
As you pointed out, the 'nation' is already there. We're not out to overturn it and turn it in to something else.
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Pop quiz: anyone remember how long the Soviets were in Afghanistan?
Fools. These are people fighting this war.
Fools. These are people fighting this war.
that was an invasion.The Soviets tried to conquer Afghanistan
It can't be done. Afghanistan is the "Graveyard of the Empires"
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Former Vice President
Who was crowing about his amazing abilities to keep us out of war? Do you have quotes?
Trumps biggest mistake in his Presicency was firing Flynn and hiring McMaster
Darth Omar
Russian asset
"the west has the watches - we got the time" (Taliban)
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Yes well so be it, there are still soldiers in Korea since the armistice was signed in 1953. There were many thousands in Germany during the Cold War.
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It actually makes me queasy to hear your rhetoric on this & how easily you buy whatever Trump says, and at the same time realizing that people's children are going to die because of Trump's decision.
And be careful about bringing up any of Obama's or Clinton's conflicts here. I'm always opposed to using our military when there is not a direct, immediate threat to our national security. Everyone should be.
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Under Obama, Afghan was the "GOOD WAR"
I supported the initial effort under Bush, but came to regret that decision. I opposed all of Obama's military efforts.
So, who are you referring to? Certainly, no one on the right on JPP thought that - they all opposed any use of the military under Obama, but will now support anything Trump does.
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Why don't you just hand over Pakistan to Daesh now and get it over with!
The problem is still the same, Afghanistan isn't a single nation, it is tribal, we will have to stay several generations, educate the populace to bring about real change. It will take a huge investment in the country, are Americans willing? I don't think they are.
More military autonomy
Perhaps the biggest military change Trump announced Monday was to relax US authorities to attack the Taliban and other terrorist groups in Afghanistan.
The Obama administration placed restrictions on US offensive operations in Afghanistan after the Afghan forces took the lead on fighting the Taliban, a move that frequently frustrated commanders in the field.
inning ... but not nation-building
When Obama talked about the war in Afghanistan, he focused on bringing US troops home. Trump made clear he wants victory there.
"Our troops will fight to win. We will fight to win," Trump said. "From now on, victory will have a clear definition, attacking our enemies, obliterating ISIS, crushing al Qaeda, preventing the Taliban from taking over Afghanistan and stopping mass terror attacks against America before they emerge."
But the key thing Trump made clear to move away from — a nod to the isolationist wing of his supporters who backed a US pullout from Afghanistan — was nation-building.
"We want them to succeed, but we will no longer use American military might to construct democracies in far-away lands or try to rebuild other countries in our own image," Trump said. "Those days are now over."
Trump said bluntly that the US was "not nation-building again."
To finish the point, he added: "We are killing terrorists."
"Micromanagement from Washington, DC, does not win battles," Trump said.
He added that he would give military commanders the authority to act in real time and expand the authorities for US armed forces to target terrorists and criminal networks in Afghanistan.
"These killers need to know they have nowhere to hide, that no place is beyond the reach of American might and American arms," Trump said. "Retribution will be fast and powerful."
http://www.cnn.com/2017/08/21/politics/trump-afghan-plan-five-things/index.html
Perhaps the biggest military change Trump announced Monday was to relax US authorities to attack the Taliban and other terrorist groups in Afghanistan.
The Obama administration placed restrictions on US offensive operations in Afghanistan after the Afghan forces took the lead on fighting the Taliban, a move that frequently frustrated commanders in the field.
inning ... but not nation-building
When Obama talked about the war in Afghanistan, he focused on bringing US troops home. Trump made clear he wants victory there.
"Our troops will fight to win. We will fight to win," Trump said. "From now on, victory will have a clear definition, attacking our enemies, obliterating ISIS, crushing al Qaeda, preventing the Taliban from taking over Afghanistan and stopping mass terror attacks against America before they emerge."
But the key thing Trump made clear to move away from — a nod to the isolationist wing of his supporters who backed a US pullout from Afghanistan — was nation-building.
"We want them to succeed, but we will no longer use American military might to construct democracies in far-away lands or try to rebuild other countries in our own image," Trump said. "Those days are now over."
Trump said bluntly that the US was "not nation-building again."
To finish the point, he added: "We are killing terrorists."
"Micromanagement from Washington, DC, does not win battles," Trump said.
He added that he would give military commanders the authority to act in real time and expand the authorities for US armed forces to target terrorists and criminal networks in Afghanistan.
"These killers need to know they have nowhere to hide, that no place is beyond the reach of American might and American arms," Trump said. "Retribution will be fast and powerful."
http://www.cnn.com/2017/08/21/politics/trump-afghan-plan-five-things/index.html
Bigdog
Harris - make America a 3rd world shithole
I'm referring to the Left's messiah, warmongerer Obama, first and foremost.
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Most seem far too willing when it's not one of their family members fighting (and deference on that comment to anyone who DOES have a family member involved).
It's the old test: is the justification enough that you would have no problem sending your own kid, or another loved one? I don't see the compelling case here, at all. Just a lot of vague speculation on what might happen if we leave.
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we did that..we are past "educating the population/change" etc. It ain't happening.
we are now in the business of killing terrorist and their networks and supporting the ANAF
This is not a surge/escalation/nationbuilding..it's using the US forces effectively both independent and embedded
Bigdog
Harris - make America a 3rd world shithole
Ummm ... Republican President Nixon ended the military draft. We now have an all VOLUNTEER military