Motts growing nightmare

Threedee said:
Apple, you're complete inability to move beyond materialism is what's wrong with your arguments. The American Founders were not leftists, and hence, absolutely nothing about their worldview was in any way driven by materialism. The Natural Rights that constitute American liberty are grounded in principle. Principles such as civic virtue, ordered liberty, belief in a higher power and purpose, and honor.

Stop looking at this matter through materialist prisms, such as class warfare and welfare bureaucracy. People experience liberty through independence and self-determination, also known as equality of opportunity. Not through equality of circumstance!

"The US Constitution doesn't guarantee happiness, only the pursuit of it. You have to catch up with it yourself."
-Benjamin Franklin
Click to expand...

The opportunity is not here today. Acquiring a piece of land requires more than a fast horse in a land rush. How many people can take a rifle and go hunt dinner?

When the ideas in the Constitution were put on paper the reality was different. People were a lot more equal in the sense everyone was required to do the same thing the same way. If one wanted a garden they had to dig the soil by hand which changed with the invention of the tractor and other farming instruments. The same applies to almost everything else.

The reality of 1776 is no longer. If one insists on sticking with the same principals we have to ensure other things are as equal as they were in 1776.

There is no "equal opportunity" today unless the government makes it so. For example, survival largely depends on education and acquiring an education is not an equal opportunity for everyone because not everyone can afford an education.

From products to services technology has replaced the idea the average person can earn a living simply by working. What we consider menial tasks today, tasks most anyone can perform, were "trades" and "professions" of yesteryear. Thus, everyone had the same opportunity. With a decent work ethic anyone could earn a living because earning a living did not require specialized knowledge. Most people were capable of doing some required job regardless of their education.

Considering opportunities and circumstances/reality have changed over the last 200+ years wouldn't the Founding Fathers still have wanted each and everyone to have similar opportunities and chances to pursue the benefits of liberty?

You're right. It wasn't about materialism in 1776 because it didn't matter then. The person with no education and no money had just as much a chance to acquire a piece of land and do a job as anyone else.

That has changed. Isn't it time we all adjusted to the reality?
 
apple0154 said:
The opportunity is not here today. Acquiring a piece of land requires more than a fast horse in a land rush. How many people can take a rifle and go hunt dinner?

When the ideas in the Constitution were put on paper the reality was different. People were a lot more equal in the sense everyone was required to do the same thing the same way. If one wanted a garden they had to dig the soil by hand which changed with the invention of the tractor and other farming instruments. The same applies to almost everything else.

The reality of 1776 is no longer. If one insists on sticking with the same principals we have to ensure other things are as equal as they were in 1776.

There is no "equal opportunity" today unless the government makes it so. For example, survival largely depends on education and acquiring an education is not an equal opportunity for everyone because not everyone can afford an education.

From products to services technology has replaced the idea the average person can earn a living simply by working. What we consider menial tasks today, tasks most anyone can perform, were "trades" and "professions" of yesteryear. Thus, everyone had the same opportunity. With a decent work ethic anyone could earn a living because earning a living did not require specialized knowledge. Most people were capable of doing some required job regardless of their education.

Considering opportunities and circumstances/reality have changed over the last 200+ years wouldn't the Founding Fathers still have wanted each and everyone to have similar opportunities and chances to pursue the benefits of liberty?

You're right. It wasn't about materialism in 1776 because it didn't matter then. The person with no education and no money had just as much a chance to acquire a piece of land and do a job as anyone else.

That has changed. Isn't it time we all adjusted to the reality?
Click to expand...

Liberalism Defined. Liberalism Defined. Liberalism Defined. Liberalism Defined. Liberalism Defined. Liberalism Defined.
Liberalism Defined. Liberalism Defined. Liberalism Defined. Liberalism Defined. Liberalism Defined. Liberalism Defined.
Liberalism Defined. Liberalism Defined. Liberalism Defined. Liberalism Defined. Liberalism Defined. Liberalism Defined.
Liberalism Defined. Liberalism Defined. Liberalism Defined. Liberalism Defined. Liberalism Defined. Liberalism Defined.
Liberalism Defined. Liberalism Defined. Liberalism Defined. Liberalism Defined. Liberalism Defined. Liberalism Defined.


"That, is why you fail." -Yoda
 
RStringfield said:
Same argument given by righties on birthright citizenship.
Click to expand...

Personally, I'm not going to worry much if we continue to allow anchor babies or if we amend to constitution to address it. I don't even know if abolishing anchor babies would effect illegal immigration much.

If we were doing a good job of securing the border, tossing people out who are caught here on expired Visas, mainstreaming more people onto green card programs, and whatnot, then it wouldn't have become an issue to begin with.
 
Ice Dancer said:
The word "welfare" appears twice in the Constitution. Once in the preamble and again in Article 1, Section 8, as the introduction and purpose of the enumerated powers..

The preamble to the Constitution states:

"We the people of the United States, in order to form a more perfect union, establish justice, insure domestic tranquility, provide for the common defense, promote the general welfare, and secure the blessings of liberty to ourselves and our posterity, do ordain and establish this Constitution for the United States of America."

Article 1, Section 8 states:

"The Congress shall have Power To lay and collect Taxes, Duties, Imposts and Excises, to pay the Debts and provide for the common Defence and general Welfare of the United States; but all Duties, Imposts and Excises shall be uniform throughout the United States."

In the second useage we can see that it follows the collection of taxes and how they shall be used; cobbled with the first useage we can see that the general welfare relates to using taxes for paying down debt and defence of the country; This interpretation supports the promotion of the peoples general welfare by protecting life and prosperity and encouraging productivity.

Never can it be imposed to suggest that "promoting" a nation of peoples "general" welfare constitutes taking money from the haves to give to the have nots. Another example of "general" welfare for the people would be taxes being spent on roadways; they promote the "general" welfare of all the peoples ability to go from one place to another...they certainly aid in productivity and defence.
Click to expand...

hummhuhhummmhuhubhuhummm~~~
 
Threedee said:
Liberalism Defined. Liberalism Defined. Liberalism Defined. Liberalism Defined. Liberalism Defined. Liberalism Defined.
Liberalism Defined. Liberalism Defined. Liberalism Defined. Liberalism Defined. Liberalism Defined. Liberalism Defined.
Liberalism Defined. Liberalism Defined. Liberalism Defined. Liberalism Defined. Liberalism Defined. Liberalism Defined.
Liberalism Defined. Liberalism Defined. Liberalism Defined. Liberalism Defined. Liberalism Defined. Liberalism Defined.
Liberalism Defined. Liberalism Defined. Liberalism Defined. Liberalism Defined. Liberalism Defined. Liberalism Defined.


"[/I]
Click to expand...

Partly, and mostly true.
 
Chaz said:
Personally, I'm not going to worry much if we continue to allow anchor babies or if we amend to constitution to address it. I don't even know if abolishing anchor babies would effect illegal immigration much.

If we were doing a good job of securing the border, tossing people out who are caught here on expired Visas, mainstreaming more people onto green card programs, and whatnot, then it wouldn't have become an issue to begin with.
Click to expand...

I like them here. I like them better than you people. They are polite and work really hard. White entitled old farts want to suck the creme and do no real work. We should deport Republicans. Lazy and stupid.
 
Micawber said:
I like them here. I like them better than you people. They are polite and work really hard. White entitled old farts want to suck the creme and do no real work. We should deport Republicans. Lazy and stupid.
Click to expand...

Whose parents built everything you enjoy, fucktard.

No Mexican I've seen has skills on par with mine in the line of work I'm in, not even close. 2 different professions, not even close.

The 1st one, we'd get paid 2x+ what the Mexicans did because we guarantee it's done right. Even if it's cheap shit, we give it the "Get it done right even if it's cheap stuff" treatment.
Our stuff was always proper. Same thing with what I do now, them boys are retarded. I've seen 1 set an aluminum ladder on a 7600V service wire. I saw it happening and was yelling and everything from 30 yards away..derp! Yeah, I don't even consider Mexicans working with me. Maybe if I knew a naturalized one or natural-born that knew his stuff, but I just do not see that.

What I do see is me getting undercut by a fat blonde white guy that works a crew of Mexicans. 7/10 times in the past 8 13 years he's undercut me on jobs.

Their work looks like shit, too. If they hadn't done my neighbor a good, I'd call ICE on them.

Unfortunately I've met the dudes, and I like 'em, and they did my neighbor right.

The quality of work is not there unless you want everything gone.
Their fat blonde boss has beaten me out of at least 10 jobs because they'll work cheaper than me an my homies, though.
 
Last edited:
Micawber said:
I like them here. I like them better than you people. They are polite and work really hard. White entitled old farts want to suck the creme and do no real work. We should deport Republicans. Lazy and stupid.
Click to expand...

Wow! What kind of loser would resurrect a ten-year old thread simply so he could take a cheap shot at patriots??

(Pretty new here. Making an effort to be civil in my posts, though I have little company. I don't use the word "loser" casually.)
 
SmarterthanYou said:
I'd like to, but the only thing I see from the current stage we're at is that people are predicated to vote for the lesser of two evils out of terror of what the other side could do..............that's not really a laughing matter
Click to expand...

I meant the part about Libertarianism having a rise.

Politics is all about voting for the lesser evil. If you refuse to do that, then you're just never going to vote.
 
StoneByStone said:
I meant the part about Libertarianism having a rise.

Politics is all about voting for the lesser evil. If you refuse to do that, then you're just never going to vote.
Click to expand...

if politics is all about voting for the lesser evil, we are surely doomed to slavery and death...............so maybe the killing should just begin
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top