Mount Vernon Killing: Evidence Gun laws dont matter

Chapdog

Abreast of the situations
One of the more heinous crimes I have seen in awhile. Imagine you live in the rural suburbs in a quiet peaceful community where many don't even lock there doors. Your 42year old nurse wife and 11yo daughter are left at your hard earned home while you are away on business.

Then 4 punks decide to invade your home and hack up your wife and daughter with a knife and a machete just for the hell of it.

This is the evidence I would present when I see the argument that there is no need for people to have personal firearms.
#1) criminals will still commit crime
#2) victims will be more powerless to defend.
 
One of the more heinous crimes I have seen in awhile. Imagine you live in the rural suburbs in a quiet peaceful community where many don't even lock there doors. Your 42year old nurse wife and 11yo daughter are left at your hard earned home while you are away on business.

Then 4 punks decide to invade your home and hack up your wife and daughter with a knife and a machete just for the hell of it.

This is the evidence I would present when I see the argument that there is no need for people to have personal firearms.
#1) criminals will still commit crime
#2) victims will be more powerless to defend.

it isnt so much the law, as it is the mentality towards guns that bothers me. guns in america are something 'natural.' every lowlife criminal is packin' heat. in europe, guns are something police have. if youre just a civilian and you have a gun, you are either 1. retired police, 2. member of a shooting club (they use very small caliber firearms), 3. in organized crime.
 
it isnt so much the law, as it is the mentality towards guns that bothers me. guns in america are something 'natural.' every lowlife criminal is packin' heat. in europe, guns are something police have. if youre just a civilian and you have a gun, you are either 1. retired police, 2. member of a shooting club (they use very small caliber firearms), 3. in organized crime.

I live life assuming everyone has a gun. Safest way to be.
 
Because being able to identify a criminal on the street just based on the fact that they are carrying a handgun would do absolutely nothing to reduce crime levels. That's why the murder rate is so high in europe and so low in america.

Sure some crimes are committed with crimes. But saying "This crime was committed with knives so gun laws are ineffective!" draws conclusions from a hilariously limited data set, and is a laughable argument.
 
Because being able to identify a criminal on the street just based on the fact that they are carrying a handgun would do absolutely nothing to reduce crime levels. That's why the murder rate is so high in europe and so low in america.

sorry, but are you being sarcastic or serious about this?
 
Its evidence that crime still is committed even without guns and limiting the right of homeowners to have guns invites more home invasion crime and less defense.
 
One of the more heinous crimes I have seen in awhile. Imagine you live in the rural suburbs in a quiet peaceful community where many don't even lock there doors. Your 42year old nurse wife and 11yo daughter are left at your hard earned home while you are away on business.

Then 4 punks decide to invade your home and hack up your wife and daughter with a knife and a machete just for the hell of it.

This is the evidence I would present when I see the argument that there is no need for people to have personal firearms.
#1) criminals will still commit crime
#2) victims will be more powerless to defend.
Chap do you have a link to the story?
 
Its evidence that crime still is committed even without guns and limiting the right of homeowners to have guns invites more home invasion crime and less defense.

yea but only in a country where houses are made out of plywood and everyone has access to guns. furthermore, the willingness to actually use a gun is much higher in the US than in europe. there were a total of 3 (three) murders in munich last year. 3 in a city of 1.2 million people. i want you to show me any city in the US that has a similar murder rate.
 
well, this happened in New Hampshire, one of the freer states with regards to gun laws. There is no license requirement to own a firearm in that state. If the family felt the desire to be 'gun free'.....well it looks like they paid for that mentality.
 
yea but only in a country where houses are made out of plywood and everyone has access to guns. furthermore, the willingness to actually use a gun is much higher in the US than in europe. there were a total of 3 (three) murders in munich last year. 3 in a city of 1.2 million people. i want you to show me any city in the US that has a similar murder rate.

what was the rest of the crime rate? rape? burglary? armed robbery? assault?
 
yea but only in a country where houses are made out of plywood and everyone has access to guns. furthermore, the willingness to actually use a gun is much higher in the US than in europe. there were a total of 3 (three) murders in munich last year. 3 in a city of 1.2 million people. i want you to show me any city in the US that has a similar murder rate.
In Juarez Mexico, a city roughly the size of Munich, in a country that prohibits gun ownership, there were over 1000 murders, so your point is not well taken.
 
dont remember, i read this statistic a few months ago in a german online magazine. still, munich for the last decade or so has been the safest city in germany. ill try to find the story and get back to you.
 
Munich Safest, Frankfurt Most Dangerous City in Crime Survey

Crime statistics for Germany's top ten cities in 2006 may paint a clear picture of the good and the bad, but experts say they mask a rather differentiated crime map across the country.

Frankfurt registered 16,378 crimes per 100,000 inhabitants in 2006, making it Germany's most dangerous city, according to statistics. The 650,000-strong banking capital on the Main river was followed by another wealthy West German city, Düsseldorf, which jumped from number five to two in the crime table with 14,989 recorded crimes per 100,000 inhabitants.

German capital, Berlin came in fifth with 14,632 crimes last year.

"People in Frankfurt aren't more criminal"

But according to German news agency dpa, the statistics don't necessarily provide the full picture.

In a survey, dpa said police in Berlin, Hamburg, Frankfurt, Bremen, Dortmund and Essen recorded fewer crimes as compared to 2005 while authorities in Düsseldorf, Cologne, Stuttgart and Munich registered more crimes for the same period.


Bildunterschrift: Großansicht des Bildes mit der Bildunterschrift: Frankfurt is one of Europe's biggest airports
Christian Pfeiffer, head of the Criminological Research Institute of Lower Saxony, pointed out that Frankfurt appeared to be the country's most dangerous cities because crimes committed in the city's international airport -- one of the largest in Europe -- were included in the overall statistics.

"That's imported criminality. The people in Frankfurt aren't more criminal than elsewhere," Pfeiffer said.

"The overall trend in the development of criminality in Germany remains positive, on a long-term comparison the number of crimes is continually falling," he added.

Violent crime on the rise

Experts say the greying of Germany's population is partly responsible for a continual decline in crimes such as stealing, bank robberies and car theft. At the same time violent crimes and Internet criminality are on the rise, particularly among younger people.

Statistics showed that Cologne registered a three-fold increase in homicides last year, from 20 to 57 while Hamburg saw a 4.2 increase in violent crime with 210 cases. The city of Stuttgart in the south, recorded an increase of 1.4 percent in offenders below the age of 21.

Berlin, where registered crimes sank to their lowest level since 1990 last year, the city saw a jump of 8.4 percent in teenage gang crime.

"Perceived criminality" doesn't correspond to reality

Pfeiffer, whose institute conducts studies on crime and criminal behaviour, says there's an ever widening gap between "perceived criminality" and reality, particularly in the case of sex murders.


Bildunterschrift: Großansicht des Bildes mit der Bildunterschrift: The rape and murder of a 9-year-old boy recently made headlines in Germany
"For years the number of fatal sex crimes has been on the wane yet people believe that it's increased six-fold," Pfeiffer said, adding that an increased reporting on such crimes in the media was responsible for the perception.

He said that reports on such crimes had increased three times in the past ten years in the print media and six times on private television broadcasters.

With the number of solved crimes remaining fairly constant, most experts say the police are doing a good job. Fighting Internet criminality however remains a challenge.

http://www.dw-world.de/dw/article/0,,2441670,00.html
 
ok. per http://www.mstatistik-muenchen.de/themen/sicherheit_ordnung/berichte/berichte_2004/mb040203.pdf,
there were 113,354 total reported crimes in munich in 2003. 3,699 of those are violent crimes (murder, rape, armed robbery, assault, etc). 25,326 are street crimes (muggings, rape (why this is included in both categories i dont know), any thefts of/from inside cars, indecent exposure (which i would argue isnt a crime, at least not by the american definition), etc) any other crimes are misdemeanors, fraud, driving related. turns out that stuttgart was even safer (8800 crimes per 100,000 people rather than 9200) in these 2 years (2002/2003). any questions, dont hesitate to ask.

san francisco has a population of 772,065 people (http://www.cityrating.com/citycrime.asp?city=San+Francisco&state=CA) and there are 25,000 thefts alone, 69 murders, etc.
 
The city with the highest rate in Europe is Limerick, with a murder rate of 7 per 100k. That is the murder rate statewide in Mississippi, which is 50% rural.
 
well, this happened in New Hampshire, one of the freer states with regards to gun laws. There is no license requirement to own a firearm in that state. If the family felt the desire to be 'gun free'.....well it looks like they paid for that mentality.

Subhumans like you need to be executed in the most painful way possible.
 
Gun nuts love to point out third world cities.
We will never remove guns from these freaks.
Obviously anti gun folks would love to eliminate them from criminals but that is impossible. One of my pet peaves is we are smarter than Europe, they have a shit ton more common sense. As you see here, people with 2 degrees will pull some dumb bullshit out thier ass to say yes to guns.
Common Sense is an endangered species in our country
 
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