My pepper plants got bigger than I thought.

Green beans do not require pollination, so it is possible to grow them indoors all year. And they grow real easy. Fresh green beans are so much better than anything you can buy.
 
PoliTalker said:
Hello gardeners,

I took up organic food gardening a few years ago. Zero experience. Trying to grow in the ground from seed. It has been a process of hit and miss. Very sandy soil.

Along the way we have learned some lessons and we're improving our results. I have come to develop a great admiration for composting. You can't buy good compost and you never know what's in it unless you make it yourself. Compost piles are magic. In goes all the cuttings and plant matter from the kitchen, along with leaves, sticks and grass clippings. Turn it and add water from time to time and wow! Out comes awesome planting compost.

We don't even have to plant tomatoes any more. Just take some of the compost, stick it in a grow bed, and water it. There are so many tomato seeds in the compost tomato plants pop up so thick we have to thin them.

Peppers have been one of the things we can't grow well. Jalepenos and cayennes, no problem. Bell peppers, forget it. All we get are little things golf ball size. And the plants take forever to grow.

We keep trying new things and learning, so the more failures we have, the more we learn.

We can grow basil, oregano, rosemary, dill, tomato, beans, broccoli, cilantro, lettuce, chives, onions, garlic, arugula, carrots, radish, cucumber, watermelon.

We don't grow watermelon any more because it took over the back yard and we couldn't grow anything else!

We can't grow spinach or bell peppers. Spinach won't even hardly sprout, and if it does it doesn't go anywhere. And the seeds are so expensive for so few we might just give up on that.

I used to think of mockingbirds as pests because they would attack the tomatoes. Then I learned how to cover the nearly-ripe tomatoes with newspaper and staples. That stops the mockingbirds from attacking the tomatoes. I realized you WANT mockingbirds because they eat tons of bugs.

Raccoons are a problem, but they may be dealing with the moles. Coons dig a lotta holes. I think they are going after the moles. The moles don't go for the plants but I think they do eat earthworms. Their tunnels are the problem. The water from irrigating tends to find a mole tunnel and then it creates a drain. The beds don't get watered and it washes good soil away down the mole tunnels.

And we have nematodes. That might be the problem with the peppers. They get all root-knotted. Starves the plant and reduces the output. We might have to try raised-bed plots so we can bake the nematodes out of the soil in the hot summer and prevent re-entry.
Click to expand...

Isn't it such an adventure? We have super sandy soil as well; last year was the first year for the gardens so we didn't have any home-crafted compost; we used commercial. I've been growing tomatoes for over 40 years; last year was the most prolific crop I ever got! I was shocked because we have cool summers here, but they didn't care. Probably it was the amount of daylight -- they got 15+ hours of sun/day. My other gardening experience was in semi-shady suburban areas. One of our neighbors gave us one of those huge compost bins on wheels that you hand-turn; going to have some nice stuff to put out there this season.
 
PoliTalker said:
Hello gardeners,

I took up organic food gardening a few years ago. Zero experience. Trying to grow in the ground from seed. It has been a process of hit and miss. Very sandy soil.

Along the way we have learned some lessons and we're improving our results. I have come to develop a great admiration for composting. You can't buy good compost and you never know what's in it unless you make it yourself. Compost piles are magic. In goes all the cuttings and plant matter from the kitchen, along with leaves, sticks and grass clippings. Turn it and add water from time to time and wow! Out comes awesome planting compost.

We don't even have to plant tomatoes any more. Just take some of the compost, stick it in a grow bed, and water it. There are so many tomato seeds in the compost tomato plants pop up so thick we have to thin them.

Peppers have been one of the things we can't grow well. Jalepenos and cayennes, no problem. Bell peppers, forget it. All we get are little things golf ball size. And the plants take forever to grow.

We keep trying new things and learning, so the more failures we have, the more we learn.

We can grow basil, oregano, rosemary, dill, tomato, beans, broccoli, cilantro, lettuce, chives, onions, garlic, arugula, carrots, radish, cucumber, watermelon.

We don't grow watermelon any more because it took over the back yard and we couldn't grow anything else!

We can't grow spinach or bell peppers. Spinach won't even hardly sprout, and if it does it doesn't go anywhere. And the seeds are so expensive for so few we might just give up on that.

I used to think of mockingbirds as pests because they would attack the tomatoes. Then I learned how to cover the nearly-ripe tomatoes with newspaper and staples. That stops the mockingbirds from attacking the tomatoes. I realized you WANT mockingbirds because they eat tons of bugs.

Raccoons are a problem, but they may be dealing with the moles. Coons dig a lotta holes. I think they are going after the moles. The moles don't go for the plants but I think they do eat earthworms. Their tunnels are the problem. The water from irrigating tends to find a mole tunnel and then it creates a drain. The beds don't get watered and it washes good soil away down the mole tunnels.

And we have nematodes. That might be the problem with the peppers. They get all root-knotted. Starves the plant and reduces the output. We might have to try raised-bed plots so we can bake the nematodes out of the soil in the hot summer and prevent re-entry.
Click to expand...

Lots of great books available...I grew up on an organic farm.
 
Althea said:
Do you know what's in it? Before I opted for municipal waste, I'd visit a local horse farm.

Edit...you incorrectly advised that heat is necessary in composting, and that seeds/volunteers are a bad thing.
Click to expand...

I did not say heat was necessary or that volunteers are a bad thing HOWEVER if it is not sterilizing tomato seeds it also ins't sterilizing weed seeds that end up in it. All organics compost. It is a matter of time.

Of course I know what is in our city's compost--it is one part leaf mould and 2 parts composted political enemies.
 
Hello Kacper,

Kacper said:
I did not say heat was necessary or that volunteers are a bad thing HOWEVER if it is not sterilizing tomato seeds it also ins't sterilizing weed seeds that end up in it. All organics compost. It is a matter of time.

Of course I know what is in our city's compost--it is one part leaf mould and 2 parts composted political enemies.
Click to expand...

LOL!

Oh yes. Lots of weeds pop up along with the tomatoes out of the compost we make. I don't view that as a problem. I allow new plantings a few weeks to take before mulching. That way I can go and use a hand rake and remove all unwanted seedlings before mulching.

We like to use old hay for mulching. I buy bales of hay and first use them to make the walkways between our grow plots. The coarse hay from the bales is a bit too coarse for mulching, and it tends to be difficult to place around seedlings without damage to the seedlings. So we use if for the walkways for a half year or so where it breaks down and gets softer and easier to manage as seedling mulch. Then it gets transferred to the plots as mulch. When cleaning up an old plot, we simply take the top layer off, mulch and all, and that goes into the working compost pile. It's all good. I don't care if nutrients go back and forth from the compost piles to the grow plots. Nutrients are nutrients.

I do have some old concentrated liquid organic fertilizer that works nicely, but that was a leftover from a previous homeowner. I have about a half gallon left. I went online to check availability of that stuff and learned they are pretty proud of it. I don't want my gardening to depend on expensive supplies. Nutrients are everywhere. You just have to learn how to gather and use them.

If I wanted to just spend a bunch of money to make gardening easier I would just forget organic and go buy seedlings and use miracle grow.

I like the feeling of independence from gardening supply stores. And the sense of accomplishment of knowing how to do it all with what I have available.
 
PoliTalker said:
Hello Kacper,



I guess there are different levels of composting. My pile generates it's own heat. A compost pile is like a fire. But it's not THAT hot. We have an active compost pile, meaning we add to it regularly instead of the style where you mix all the ingredients and then let it cook down on it's own. Our compost is never complete, so there are bits of wood in it. But the humus is excellent and full of nutrients the garden plots love.

I just decided that since we have some awesome tomato plants growing out of it right now that it is time to begin another one since I can no longer dig in the old one without disturbing the tomato roots. The tomato plants in the compost pile are the healthiest looking ones we have, so we are not going to do anything to stop that.

Fortunately we have the space, so a brand new compost pile has been created. It is good to have the compost piles near the grow plots and the water source. It is important to turn a compost pile and water it. The 'cooking' slows down if the pile dries out, or uses up all the raw material in the core.

Our county does have free mulch, but not compost. I tried the free mulch years ago. I ended up deciding not to use it again. It contains little bits of plastic and other non-organic materials. We are totally organic, so we don't want any of that anywhere near the garden.

I won't shop at Walmart because it hurts the local economy and I don't want to support that model. I am able to find all the clean material I need to create great compost piles.

It's really amazing. Our soil is naturally very sandy and bland, lifeless. As the compost pile gets turned, some sand gets mixed in. The result is great potting soil, very rich and black looking. Water runs right off the sandy soil but soaks instantly into the compost.
Click to expand...

Amazon does more damage than Walmart to local economies, but whatever.

I don't use the free city mulch--just the compost. We tried it one time where I worked and the quality was far too inconsistent. I suppose if you wanted the screen it you could. I have several composting piles in addition to my bins. One of them is more a brush pile. It takes 3-5 years for that thing to get beaten down by nature and probably 10 to get close to fuller decomp but it does work.
 
PoliTalker said:
Hello Kacper,



LOL!

Oh yes. Lots of weeds pop up along with the tomatoes out of the compost we make. I don't view that as a problem. I allow new plantings a few weeks to take before mulching. That way I can go and use a hand rake and remove all unwanted seedlings before mulching.

We like to use old hay for mulching. I buy bales of hay and first use them to make the walkways between our grow plots. The coarse hay from the bales is a bit too coarse for mulching, and it tends to be difficult to place around seedlings without damage to the seedlings. So we use if for the walkways for a half year or so where it breaks down and gets softer and easier to manage as seedling mulch. Then it gets transferred to the plots as mulch. When cleaning up an old plot, we simply take the top layer off, mulch and all, and that goes into the working compost pile. It's all good. I don't care if nutrients go back and forth from the compost piles to the grow plots. Nutrients are nutrients.

I do have some old concentrated liquid organic fertilizer that works nicely, but that was a leftover from a previous homeowner. I have about a half gallon left. I went online to check availability of that stuff and learned they are pretty proud of it. I don't want my gardening to depend on expensive supplies. Nutrients are everywhere. You just have to learn how to gather and use them.

If I wanted to just spend a bunch of money to make gardening easier I would just forget organic and go buy seedlings and use miracle grow.

I like the feeling of independence from gardening supply stores. And the sense of accomplishment of knowing how to do it all with what I have available.
Click to expand...

OK but the same product from Walmart and from the feed & seed is still the same product so I don't feel compelled to buy it at a much higher price point. I have to be weary of copperheads. For instance, I have a long row of lob lollies that make perfect pine straw--for the ticks and snakes so I don't use it in the garden except in a plant it and forget it wildflower bed I built for the bees and butterflies to do their thing in.
 
Hello Kacper,

Kacper said:
Amazon does more damage than Walmart to local economies, but whatever.

I don't use the free city mulch--just the compost. We tried it one time where I worked and the quality was far too inconsistent. I suppose if you wanted the screen it you could. I have several composting piles in addition to my bins. One of them is more a brush pile. It takes 3-5 years for that thing to get beaten down by nature and probably 10 to get close to fuller decomp but it does work.
Click to expand...

Yup. I am starting to get a better feel for how long composting takes. If you put the correct ingredients it happens very quickly. 90 days. Other things take much longer, such as hard wood. Good idea to have different piles for different ingredients. We are looking at possibly having to run our compost from the old piles through a grate to separate the big chunks out for more composting. Specialize piles would get us out of that step. I put some grape vines in the old pile. I bet they take a long time.

Speaking of grapes, we have some very good looking muscadine grapes that are now a few years old. They've been pruned to fit a wire supported by poles. Now we have tons of tiny grape bunches. Too many to do the newspaper and staples trick. Mockingbirds are going to be an issue. I will have to try to wrap the vines in mesh to make them bird proof later in the season. So far, the raccoons have not cared about the muscadines. But the grapes are looking really good this year, so I fret the day the coons decide to chow down on them. I doubt the mesh will prevent them from getting into anything they want to. Raccoons are related to bears. They are very smart, and quite able to get at what they want.
 
PoliTalker said:
Hello Kacper,



Yup. I am starting to get a better feel for how long composting takes. If you put the correct ingredients it happens very quickly. 90 days. Other things take much longer, such as hard wood. Good idea to have different piles for different ingredients. We are looking at possibly having to run our compost from the old piles through a grate to separate the big chunks out for more composting. Specialize piles would get us out of that step. I put some grape vines in the old pile. I bet they take a long time.

Speaking of grapes, we have some very good looking muscadine grapes that are now a few years old. They've been pruned to fit a wire supported by poles. Now we have tons of tiny grape bunches. Too many to do the newspaper and staples trick. Mockingbirds are going to be an issue. I will have to try to wrap the vines in mesh to make them bird proof later in the season. So far, the raccoons have not cared about the muscadines. But the grapes are looking really good this year, so I fret the day the coons decide to chow down on them. I doubt the mesh will prevent them from getting into anything they want to. Raccoons are related to bears. They are very smart, and quite able to get at what they want.
Click to expand...


I grow concord seedless grapes, but don't really care enough to try to maximize my share. I just munch on them if they are there when I am there, but otherwise the critters can do whatever they want with them. I just have them because they used to be the favorite of a now dead relative so I salvaged them as a legacy. Not a huge fan of grapes. One or two every now and then more than fills my year's quota. Most of my houseplants I have for the same reason. People think we just really like houseplants, but I despise them for the most part. They are legacies from either dead people or through live plants I got when people died. I used to give them away, but then the people I gave them to felt a need to propagate them and give me two in return even when I tell them, "I give this to thee with the hope ye never return one to me!!!"
 
Hello Kacper,

Kacper said:
I grow concord seedless grapes, but don't really care enough to try to maximize my share. I just munch on them if they are there when I am there, but otherwise the critters can do whatever they want with them. I just have them because they used to be the favorite of a now dead relative so I salvaged them as a legacy. Not a huge fan of grapes. One or two every now and then more than fills my year's quota. Most of my houseplants I have for the same reason. People think we just really like houseplants, but I despise them for the most part. They are legacies from either dead people or through live plants I got when people died. I used to give them away, but then the people I gave them to felt a need to propagate them and give me two in return even when I tell them, "I give this to thee with the hope ye never return one to me!!!"
Click to expand...

I gave up on ornamental growing years ago. If looks-pretty plants can survive in my yard without any help and not requiring much pruning, they can stay. Otherwise, I am definitely into gardening for the food. I get better food and save money. That's why I am so adamant about growing from seed without using expensive products.

Oh, on Amazon: I don't shop there either. True, they are worse than Walmart for local economies. And you know as soon as auto-pickers are readily mechanized, millions will be losing jobs. Sheesh. Those workers are afraid to even drink water on the job because they are not given enough time to go to the bathroom. Obviously, Bezos prefers using machines. That's how he treats the humans who work for him. Like machines. Just rented warehouse machinery. That's all those people are to him.
 
Last edited:
PoliTalker said:
Hello Kacper,



I gave up on ornamental growing years ago. If looks-pretty plants can survive in my yard without any help and not requiring much pruning, they can stay. Otherwise, I am definitely into gardening for the food. I get better food and save money. That's why I am so adamant about growing from seed without using expensive products.

Oh, on Amazon: I don't shop there either. True, they ware worse than Walmart for local economies. And you know as soon as auto-pickers are readily mechanized, millions will be losing jobs. Sheesh. Those workers are afraid to even drink water on the job because they are not given enough time to go to the bathroom. Obviously, Bezos prefers using machines. That's how he treats the humans who work for him. Like machines. Just rented warehouse machinery. That's all those people are to him.
Click to expand...

My houseplant collection is because my sister "wants them eventually" but still live in a dark box that gets no light. Some days I say I am going to have to buy her a house just so I can be rid of those things. They do all go out when the weather warms. All but 1 is outside now.

As for food, I grow a lot of my own veg because I can. I sell some and give a lot away as well.
 
Kacper said:
I did not say heat was necessary or that volunteers are a bad thing HOWEVER if it is not sterilizing tomato seeds it also ins't sterilizing weed seeds that end up in it. All organics compost. It is a matter of time.

Of course I know what is in our city's compost--it is one part leaf mould and 2 parts composted political enemies.
Click to expand...
Many towns/villages/cities use composting to get rid of water treatment sludge. Not something I want. But if you know exactly what they're composting, then I'm sure you're happy with the stuff you're getting.


Using a compost bin with worms will never require heat, and throwing fruit/veggies will give you volunteers. Not everyone cares about the volunteers, but you should never put old plants at the end of the season in your compost if you're using this method.
 
Althea said:
Many towns/villages/cities use composting to get rid of water treatment sludge. Not something I want. But if you know exactly what they're composting, then I'm sure you're happy with the stuff you're getting.


Using a compost bin with worms will never require heat, and throwing fruit/veggies will give you volunteers. Not everyone cares about the volunteers, but you should never put old plants at the end of the season in your compost if you're using this method.
Click to expand...

It is yard waste/leaves. The compost is just the stuff that sits a lot longer and breaks down more. I wouldn't have a problem if they did use sewage sludge though. That is all the much touted milogranite fertilizer is--dried and pelletized sewage sludge, I forget if it comes from St. Lois or Kansas City, but somewhere in that general part of the country.
 
Kacper said:
It is yard waste/leaves. The compost is just the stuff that sits a lot longer and breaks down more. I wouldn't have a problem if they did use sewage sludge though. That is all the much touted milogranite fertilizer is--dried and pelletized sewage sludge, I forget if it comes from St. Lois or Kansas City, but somewhere in that general part of the country.
Click to expand...
I know I've seen it in liquid form next to the Alaska products. What they cannot guarantee, is that any of a number of industrial chemicals are not in the final product. I'm happy with the compost I get, and I use a very limited variety of organic fertilizers. I befriended a dept. manager at the Walmart garden section. He knew nothing about gardening, and he would call me from time to time if a customer had a problem.

Once, he called and asked if I wanted an entire pallet of fertilizer. I told him I only use organics, and he read the label to me.

I scored a lifetime supply of Hollytone. If they wanted to get rid of it, they'd have to pay because it was considered toxic waste. I'm still using it, after giving a shitload of it away.
 
Since I am eating what comes out of my grow plots I think I will stick to creating my own compost. We don't even have a garbage disposal. The only things not going into the compost pile are animal. (except eggshells - that's OK.) and yes, we have lots of worms.

btw, what are volunteers?

throwing fruit/veggies will give you volunteers.
Click to expand...
 
Althea said:
I know I've seen it in liquid form next to the Alaska products. What they cannot guarantee, is that any of a number of industrial chemicals are not in the final product. I'm happy with the compost I get, and I use a very limited variety of organic fertilizers. I befriended a dept. manager at the Walmart garden section. He knew nothing about gardening, and he would call me from time to time if a customer had a problem.

Once, he called and asked if I wanted an entire pallet of fertilizer. I told him I only use organics, and he read the label to me.

I scored a lifetime supply of Hollytone. If they wanted to get rid of it, they'd have to pay because it was considered toxic waste. I'm still using it, after giving a shitload of it away.
Click to expand...

There are no guarantees unless you do it all yourself and even then only maybe. Even horse manure is likely to have antibiotics and chemicals in it. It is why people encourage you to wait a year after you buy it to use any bagged manure. Maybe 4 or 5 years ago people were having issues with one brand--I forget which one--because it was killing gardens due to passed through glyphosate in the manure.
 
I used to use a product called:

"Cow Manure Plus Organic Compost 50/50"

I got it at Home Depot.

I thought it was a good thing.

Then I got more inquisitive.

Wait a minute. Organic compost, fine. (I guess. What is the compost made of? The bag doesn't say. They can't tell you where the product is sold, either.)

But the cow manure. What were the cows eating? Are they GMO cows? Are they full of antibiotics? Are they eating grass from grazing a field without chemicals sprayed on it? That's what I would like to believe. And the bag does have the word ORGANIC in big letters. But nobody has any answers to the tough questions.

That was when I decided no more of that stuff and it was time to ramp up on producing my own compost.

Like I say. My organic gardening has been a learning process.
 
Kacper said:
There are no guarantees unless you do it all yourself and even then only maybe. Even horse manure is likely to have antibiotics and chemicals in it. It is why people encourage you to wait a year after you buy it to use any bagged manure. Maybe 4 or 5 years ago people were having issues with one brand--I forget which one--because it was killing gardens due to passed through glyphosate in the manure.
Click to expand...
Yea...I have a bin that prob holds about 100 gallons or more. I put my leaves in it every fall, and add salad scraps/etc as the summer goes on. By fall, I get about 100 lbs of worm castings. More than I can use in my mature gardens. I just bank it, and use it when I start new beds, etc.

Technically, glyphosate is a foliar application for weed killing, but your point is valid. I used to get manure only from people with a horse or two, instead of a huge farm...for the exact reasons you mentioned.
 
PoliTalker said:
Since I am eating what comes out of my grow plots I think I will stick to creating my own compost. We don't even have a garbage disposal. The only things not going into the compost pile are animal. (except eggshells - that's OK.) and yes, we have lots of worms.

btw, what are volunteers?
Click to expand...
'Volunteers' is the term used by gardeners that describes any plant that wasn't planted by the gardener. Typically, the tomato plants you referenced from your compost, or even flowers in a bed that came up due to seeds being cast from the year before.
 
PoliTalker said:
Since I am eating what comes out of my grow plots I think I will stick to creating my own compost. We don't even have a garbage disposal. The only things not going into the compost pile are animal. (except eggshells - that's OK.) and yes, we have lots of worms.

btw, what are volunteers?
Click to expand...

Volunteers is slang for desirable plants that you did not plant appearing, usually from seed scattered about by nature. For instance, zinnia will appear all sorts of random places if you grow it one year. I still have creasy greens moving all about my property and only planted it one time 4 years ago. I don't like to eat it, but don't really mind it as a weed scattering itself about. The bees really like the blooms in the spring so I keep it around at least until it is done flowering before I rip it out if it is somewhere I don't particularly want it. Around the margins of the property I could care less about one way or the other. My neighbor was interrogating me last week about my blooming plants. He was especially curios about one until he found out it was creasy salad and then he didn't like it anymore. LOL
 
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