nano Thermite found in all 911 dust samples

[SmarterthanYou]

"The vast majority of air incidents are simple communications or routing failures, common mishaps that are easily remedied. Nonetheless, when a problem does arise, it is treated as an emergency and interceptors are scrambled.

That was never our procedure when I was serving.

“This is exactly what’s written in our manuals. We alert our immediate supervisors, we get another set of eyes on the scope.

This part is true, except we'd usually get two additional sets of eyes looking.

We have, two feet away from us, a little button that says ADC, Air Defense Command [nowadays NEADS (Northeast Air Defense Sector)]. Bing, hit the button. ‘Hey, this is me at the Boston Center air space. I just lost a target or I have an erratic target. He is twenty-five miles west of Keene, last reported at such-and-such location.’”

I had no such button or procedure like that.

Claims by authorities that, once a hijacked aircraft’s transponders have been turned off, the plane becomes virtually invisible to radar, is another sore point for Hordon.

“Bottom line, these aircraft were always radar monitored, we were always in communication with them, even if they were hijacked. The only way you can lose an aircraft these days is for the plane to flat out blow up.”
Since any genuine air attack would not likely announce itself as such, NORAD radar has to be able to detect anything. But there’s nothing stealthy about an enormous Boeing passenger liner, whether its transponder is operating properly or not.

“That aircraft is represented on their radar scope from the time it takes off to the time it lands. Even little puddle-jumpers out of our local airports. NORAD tracks all these aircraft. They have the world’s most sophisticated radar.”

This is true of all commercial radar. An airliner just doesn't 'disappear'. We may lose specific info attached to the image on the screen, but thats it.

Planes turning off their transponders and being still visible to NORAD has also been stated by a different source, but I'd like your opinion.

not only would they stay on the screen, but most of our radars would allow us to attach our own information to it that the plane had no control over.

 

[blackascoal]

I studied it pretty heavily. Mostly because I don't trust the government and thought there might be something more than we had seen.



I don't discount yours, I sought out the information and gave you answers for what they found that were different. Like this thermite issue. Reality doesn't coincide with it. The tens of thousands of tons of thermite it would have taken, the particularly distinctive smoke it sets off, the incredibly bright light that would have been there... It simply doesn't jive with what happened in any way, yet people still speak of it as if it has some merit. It's total rubbish. I know that this wasn't the cause of the building's collapse.

What I know for sure is that these collapses were not caused by relatively small fires. That is impossible, as is the free fall speed at which they fell into their own footprints.

Thermite is a much more valid rationale that what was presented in the official story .. and if fire is all you have, that's not believeable.

Additionally, many experts on the use of thermite disagree with your opinion.

It wouldn't change even if he were walking on water and healing the sick. On this subject all you do is floccinaucinihiliplificate.

Stupid, really stupid comment especially given that you have no answer for Bowman .. who could walk on water and turn it into wine while he walked .. and still wouldn't change your mind even though he has all the qualifications and experience to know what he's talking about. There ain't a damn thing more open or studied about the way you approach this issue.

Again, total rubbish. However, when presented with information I know to be true either through the classes that I took or through somebody I trust I tend to listen. What you find 'impossible' wasn't.

That's just your unqualified opinion.

Steel frame buildings don't melt or collapse from fire. Never have, never will .. because it's impossible .. which is why it's never happened before or since. You can believe whatever you want .. you just don't have ANY history to back up what you believe.

Is there more to the 9/11 story? Possibly there is. Did GWB and several hundred thousand of his closest buddies do it? No.

You don't have the slightest clue who did or did not do it. Nor did it take several thousand people to pull this off.

Believe whatever you want .. but millions of Americans and most likely most of planet earth does not believe the fairy-tale.

 

[blackascoal]

That was never our procedure when I was serving.

This part is true, except we'd usually get two additional sets of eyes looking.

I had no such button or procedure like that.

This is true of all commercial radar. An airliner just doesn't 'disappear'. We may lose specific info attached to the image on the screen, but thats it.



not only would they stay on the screen, but most of our radars would allow us to attach our own information to it that the plane had no control over.

I appreciate the sharing of your expertise, but nothing you've said here discounts what the controller said .. and in fact validates the argument that these planes were not lost in the sky, we knew exactly where they were.

 

[SmarterthanYou]

I appreciate the sharing of your expertise, but nothing you've said here discounts what the controller said .. and in fact validates the argument that these planes were not lost in the sky, we knew exactly where they were.

and I think that I agreed with that portion of his testimony. What I disagree with is his claim that there are immediate procedures to follow that include scrambling fighters for a check and escort. That was never a procedure that I was ever made aware of and I controlled for 6 years.

 

[blackascoal]

and I think that I agreed with that portion of his testimony. What I disagree with is his claim that there are immediate procedures to follow that include scrambling fighters for a check and escort. That was never a procedure that I was ever made aware of and I controlled for 6 years.

Were you ever involved in a hijack situation as this controller was?

I'm not disputiing what you've said, just wondering.

Four gigantic hijacked planes don't fly around in the US for 90 minutes without a response .. especially when we've already been warned that an attack was imminent and we've already prepared for just such an event.

 

[Cancel5]

Were you ever involved in a hijack situation as this controller was?

I'm not disputiing what you've said, just wondering.

Four gigantic hijacked planes don't fly around in the US for 90 minutes without a response .. especially when we've already been warned that an attack was imminent and we've already prepared for just such an event.

Remember how fast they got to the kids that was flying around where he should not have been...that is what makes me wonder about that day and the air response from our military!

 

[SmarterthanYou]

Were you ever involved in a hijack situation as this controller was?

I'm not disputiing what you've said, just wondering.

as in dealing with 4 hijacked airliners at once? no, and to my recollection, only one person has in the history of this country, however, there have been 3 times that our facility had to deal with hijack flashes that took us about 20 minutes each to resolve and determine that they were false.

Four gigantic hijacked planes don't fly around in the US for 90 minutes without a response .. especially when we've already been warned that an attack was imminent and we've already prepared for just such an event.

all of the statements and reports I'd read did not confirm that they KNEW an attack was going to happen, although there were suspicions and intelligence that gave notice to a planned attack.

 

[Damocles]

What I know for sure is that these collapses were not caused by relatively small fires. That is impossible, as is the free fall speed at which they fell into their own footprints.

Thermite is a much more valid rationale that what was presented in the official story .. and if fire is all you have, that's not believeable.

Thermite is totally invalid, we'd have either been blind or had to wear welders helmets to look at the building and the massive amounts it would take would have produced tons and tons of yellow smoke thrown into the air.

Of all of the stuff that I have read on this subject this is the one easiest to refute. You have to ignore so many facts in order to keep believing in it, it just becomes silly.

Additionally, many experts on the use of thermite disagree with your opinion.

Rubbish. People who say they are experts do, but spending 10 seconds watching somebody actually use it while welding and knowing the properties. The amounts it would take is quantifiable using simple mathematics.

Stupid, really stupid comment especially given that you have no answer for Bowman .. who could walk on water and turn it into wine while he walked .. and still wouldn't change your mind even though he has all the qualifications and experience to know what he's talking about. There ain't a damn thing more open or studied about the way you approach this issue.

Again rubbish, you have no idea what I have done or haven't because you conveniently forget anything that anybody says that is against your opinion, your idea of "open" discussion is pretending that pilots that actually fly the planes in question are stupid while somebody who hasn't thinks it would be an act of magic.

That's just your unqualified opinion.

It is as qualified as yours on the subject at the least.

Steel frame buildings don't melt or collapse from fire. Never have, never will .. because it's impossible .. which is why it's never happened before or since. You can believe whatever you want .. you just don't have ANY history to back up what you believe.

Again, read the list of "firsts" that apply to the building (posted earlier in the thread by SF), apply them all to another and see if the possibility of collapse occurs. Pretending that only the fire was the cause is just as silly as pretending to ignore the properties of thermite so you can say it is plausible.

You don't have the slightest clue who did or did not do it. Nor did it take several thousand people to pull this off.

Believe whatever you want .. but millions of Americans and most likely most of planet earth does not believe the fairy-tale.

And still more inanity. If this is the measure of "real" then you should be a Christian, millions more believe in that.

Seriously. You resort to "millions of Americans believe it"... It's a logical fallacy called the "appeal to popularity"

http://www.nizkor.org/features/fallacies/appeal-to-popularity.html

It would take several thousand. First the people on the planes would have to be dealt with in some way, especially the one you believe didn't hit the pentagon. They would quite literally have to be killed or rendered totally incommunicado for the rest of their lives, either one takes more than a handful of people alone.

Then, the people watching the flight paths on radars would have to be paid off and part of the conspiracy, because planes that didn't exist don't exist on their radar and missiles look nothing like airplanes on radar.

and that's just the beginning.

The hundreds of thousands of tons of thermite would have to be brought into the buildings somehow, and those people too would have to remain silent.

Somebody would have to fake the cell phone calls, or somehow force the people who were "on the planes" that weren't really there to pretend that they were making the calls. Or duplicate planes would have had to have been created (once more back to radar operators and part of the conspiracy) and people who were willing to die would have to hijack those. In each plane somebody called a loved one to tell them about the hijacking and imminent danger.

We can go on and on. In order to pull off what you so far have described it would take thousands of people to be knowledgeable of at least a portion of the conspiracy, enough to give it away, and all of these people would have to remain silent or you'd have a smoking gun and you would have used it. Repeating the same phrase of "impossible" over and over doesn't change what you and I went through on the subject.

Again, there are questions about that day, you bet there are. But a person as smart as you should readily dismiss the ridiculous and at least reach for the plausible.

 

[tinfoil]

He works for NORAD and I'm interested in hearing his response to my post about NORAD and wargames.

It's frustrating that folks ignore the NORAD stand down shit.
And Damo insisiting that carefully placed thermite to melt structural elements would produce a light so bright we would need welding glasses is ludicrous. The interior of the bulding where the structural elements would be severed would not be visible no matter what. and any evidence would be buried by the rubble.

But there would be residual heat, which is documented as existing weeks later. please describe the physical process that results in a storage of heat enough to keep metal molten. If you say it was the jet fuel, i'm going to laugh!!!

I don't understand how you can ignore this.
It's so damn hard to believe the Bush admin was corrupt, I' know!, it's a tough one to swallow

 

[Damocles]

It's frustrating that folks ignore the NORAD stand down shit.
And Damo insisiting that carefully placed thermite to melt structural elements would produce a light so bright we would need welding glasses is ludicrous. The interior of the bulding where the structural elements would be severed would not be visible no matter what. and any evidence would be buried by the rubble.

But there would be residual heat, which is documented as existing weeks later. please describe the physical process that results in a storage of heat enough to keep metal molten. If you say it was the jet fuel, i'm going to laugh!!!

I don't understand how you can ignore this.
It's so damn hard to believe the Bush admin was corrupt, I' know!, it's a tough one to swallow

Not with that much thermite, it would be visible, especially when the interior was compromised.

If something was used to take the buildings down, it wasn't thermite. I think it is possible that something was used to take the buildings down, I just don't believe it could be thermite, it's use is too easily seen. The yellow smoke is too distinguishable, even if the light wouldn't have escaped through the huge gaping hole in the side of the building.

 

[Minister of Truth]

I have no such delusions about NORAD or its mission. I never have. I know exactly what they do.

Are you saying that you disagree with this ..

"The vast majority of air incidents are simple communications or routing failures, common mishaps that are easily remedied. Nonetheless, when a problem does arise, it is treated as an emergency and interceptors are scrambled.

“This is exactly what’s written in our manuals. We alert our immediate supervisors, we get another set of eyes on the scope. We have, two feet away from us, a little button that says ADC, Air Defense Command [nowadays NEADS (Northeast Air Defense Sector)]. Bing, hit the button. ‘Hey, this is me at the Boston Center air space. I just lost a target or I have an erratic target. He is twenty-five miles west of Keene, last reported at such-and-such location.’”

Claims by authorities that, once a hijacked aircraft’s transponders have been turned off, the plane becomes virtually invisible to radar, is another sore point for Hordon.

“Bottom line, these aircraft were always radar monitored, we were always in communication with them, even if they were hijacked. The only way you can lose an aircraft these days is for the plane to flat out blow up.”
Since any genuine air attack would not likely announce itself as such, NORAD radar has to be able to detect anything. But there’s nothing stealthy about an enormous Boeing passenger liner, whether its transponder is operating properly or not.

“That aircraft is represented on their radar scope from the time it takes off to the time it lands. Even little puddle-jumpers out of our local airports. NORAD tracks all these aircraft. They have the world’s most sophisticated radar.”

***

Planes turning off their transponders and being still visible to NORAD has also been stated by a different source, but I'd like your opinion.

Other than the fact that NEADS is now EADS, I would mostly agree with that description of everyday business. Granted, I'm sure things are way different at a RAOC (regional air ops center, which manages the ADS in the region), and of course, I have never been to HQ NORAD for a tour of duty...

Its often a matter of reporting up the chain of command. I report to my supervisor, who reports to the mission crew commander, who then decides what to do next...

It is not uncommon for tracks to go lost and disappear from coverage while I take actions to help the intercept controllers triangulate the aircraft. Its time consuming, and I have talked to cynics that think our standards would be useless in many situations...

But I am but an entry-level operator, and there is a lot that I am not trained to understand.

 

[blackascoal]

Other than the fact that NEADS is now EADS, I would mostly agree with that description of everyday business. Granted, I'm sure things are way different at a RAOC (regional air ops center, which manages the ADS in the region), and of course, I have never been to HQ NORAD for a tour of duty...

Its often a matter of reporting up the chain of command. I report to my supervisor, who reports to the mission crew commander, who then decides what to do next...

It is not uncommon for tracks to go lost and disappear from coverage while I take actions to help the intercept controllers triangulate the aircraft. Its time consuming, and I have talked to cynics that think our standards would be useless in many situations...

But I am but an entry-level operator, and there is a lot that I am not trained to understand.

Your insight and honest manner is much appreciated brother.

I wasn't trying to get you to be "on my side", just get an honest perspective with which to weigh my conclusions against.

thanks

 

[Sammy Jankis]

Are you going to be ranting on about reptoids and faux moon landings next? There's as much evidence for that as there is for this. It is surreal that people like you exist.

The reptoids say the same thing about you.

 

[blackascoal]

as in dealing with 4 hijacked airliners at once? no, and to my recollection, only one person has in the history of this country, however, there have been 3 times that our facility had to deal with hijack flashes that took us about 20 minutes each to resolve and determine that they were false.



all of the statements and reports I'd read did not confirm that they KNEW an attack was going to happen, although there were suspicions and intelligence that gave notice to a planned attack.

We had far more than enough warnings from Germany, England, France, and even Poland to prepare the military to protect the American people. Bush got a PDB that said "New York Area under Inmminent Attack."

We had FBI agents all over this and they warned that an attack was being planned. We even had an FBI informant living with two of the suspected hijackers. The FBI's most knowledgeable agent on counter-terrorism and Bin Laden resigned in frustration because his warnings were going unheeded. Ironically, after he resigned he took the job of head of security for the World Trade Center and he was killed in the attack. We even had warnings that gave the exact date of the attack.

Warnings from everywhere .. yet nobody lost their job.

 

[blackascoal]

It's frustrating that folks ignore the NORAD stand down shit.
And Damo insisiting that carefully placed thermite to melt structural elements would produce a light so bright we would need welding glasses is ludicrous. The interior of the bulding where the structural elements would be severed would not be visible no matter what. and any evidence would be buried by the rubble.

But there would be residual heat, which is documented as existing weeks later. please describe the physical process that results in a storage of heat enough to keep metal molten. If you say it was the jet fuel, i'm going to laugh!!!

I don't understand how you can ignore this.
It's so damn hard to believe the Bush admin was corrupt, I' know!, it's a tough one to swallow

There are so many glaring holes in the 9/11 story that it boggles the mind how so many people are so easily manipulated.

Damo says thermite is impossible, but buildings melting from fire is possible .. even from relatively small fires. That's possible.

YIKES

He has no clue why thermite was there, no answers for the molten steel, no answers for why the site stayed hot for so long.

YIKES

No one has any idea why it was necessary to change NORAD orders on how to deal with hijacked planes two months before the attack .. nor do they even want to ask the question.

YIKES

None of them even ask how it is possible for so much horrific damage to have occured at the WTC, when a similar attack using the same type planes carrying about the same amount of fuel did such little damage at the Pentagon. Couldn't even burn the pages of an open book right next to the impact site. Left a 16 by 14ft hole. The roof didn't even collapse until half an hour after the impact. The lawn was left still manicured with no burn, fuel, or skid marks on it. No indications on the building that the wings ever touched it .. even though that's where the fuel is stored. AND, the passengers, crew, luggage, wings, tail, 7ft tall engines, and everything else that would be resident at a crash site just up and disappeared .. vanished into thin air.

The excuse .. the plane vaporized.

YIKES

I summed this all up in the very first post I made in this thread.

 

[SmarterthanYou]

We had far more than enough warnings from Germany, England, France, and even Poland to prepare the military to protect the American people. Bush got a PDB that said "New York Area under Inmminent Attack."

We had FBI agents all over this and they warned that an attack was being planned. We even had an FBI informant living with two of the suspected hijackers. The FBI's most knowledgeable agent on counter-terrorism and Bin Laden resigned in frustration because his warnings were going unheeded. Ironically, after he resigned he took the job of head of security for the World Trade Center and he was killed in the attack. We even had warnings that gave the exact date of the attack.

Warnings from everywhere .. yet nobody lost their job.

Now, if all of this is known and verifiable, how is it that this 'inside job' remained such a secret? This is the US Government and MOST of us know that NOBODY in that body can keep a damned secret.

 

[Sammy Jankis]

I totally think it was an inside job too. A false flag attack to shake our cages and direct our anger.

 

[Damocles]

There are so many glaring holes in the 9/11 story that it boggles the mind how so many people are so easily manipulated.

Damo says thermite is impossible, but buildings melting from fire is possible .. even from relatively small fires. That's possible.

YIKES

He has no clue why thermite was there, no answers for the molten steel, no answers for why the site stayed hot for so long.

YIKES

No one has any idea why it was necessary to change NORAD orders on how to deal with hijacked planes two months before the attack .. nor do they even want to ask the question.

YIKES

None of them even ask how it is possible for so much horrific damage to have occured at the WTC, when a similar attack using the same type planes carrying about the same amount of fuel did such little damage at the Pentagon. Couldn't even burn the pages of an open book right next to the impact site. Left a 16 by 14ft hole. The roof didn't even collapse until half an hour after the impact. The lawn was left still manicured with no burn, fuel, or skid marks on it. No indications on the building that the wings ever touched it .. even though that's where the fuel is stored. AND, the passengers, crew, luggage, wings, tail, 7ft tall engines, and everything else that would be resident at a crash site just up and disappeared .. vanished into thin air.

The excuse .. the plane vaporized.

YIKES

I summed this all up in the very first post I made in this thread.

See? I told you that you only hear what you want. Please find the post that I said the buildings fell only because of fire. As for the rest, a bunch of hooie. I knew that nothing Threedee had to say would make an impact and warned him in a sardonic way because you don't hear anything if it doesn't fit in what you have decided must be the cause.

In fact several times I suggested that something may have been there to help make the buildings fail, just not Thermite, the distinctive yellow smoke alone would put that claim false. Do I believe that the government put whatever it was there? No. I think they likely covered up the discovery of it so that it didn't look as if they were even more incompetent than they already appeared.

I think that most of the cover was for that purpose, so that they wouldn't have to tell us all that had been done right here under their noses and they could save some face.

I also think the plane in Pennsylvania was shot down by the Air Force, not caused by brave passengers.

I believe we don't know the full story of 9/11, I do believe that we have the major pieces. I wish, instead of trying to save face and cover mistakes, the government gave us a full and honest report with all the warts so that we would be better prepared in the future. Nobody was fired was pointed out above. I think it was because the bureaucracy went into full ass-covering mode.

 

[blackascoal]

See? I told you that you only hear what you want. Please find the post that I said the buildings fell only because of fire.

Instead of me going to find it, how about you articulate it right here?

 

[Damocles]

Instead of me going to find it, how about you articulate it right here?

Please read the addition to the post above. The reality is I never said the buildings fell solely because of fire, not one time have I even suggested that. If you believe that I have said that I want you to post it. Link it up, please.