new orleans federal judge overturns bho's drilling moratorium

DonQuixote said:
only indirectly, since the judge belongs to the justice department and is appointed for life subject to good conduct - malfeasance and/or misfeasance in office or something relating to bad character
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sorry charlie. The judiciary, while lower courts are created by the senate, are not a part of the executive or legislative branch. They are their own part of the government created by the constitution. They do not answer to the DoJ.
 
Ya'all underestimate a cunning politician...Obama wins 'cause he came out with his moratorium knowing it would get overturned..he's not the friend of "big oil" message (he doesn't have Holder around for nuttin' honey)...get it yet? Just like we all know the 20 billion was orchestrated to make it look like Obama was the reason for the dough.
 
DonQuixote said:
seems that the judge thought that the financial loss to the region is more important than potential blowouts

per cnn breaking news today at noon
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I usually pay attention to the actual findings of the court. A banner headline on Drudge or Huffington post just doesn't cut it.

These things are always more complicated than us message board hacks make them out to be.

The judge didn't decide economics are more important than blow outs.

He decided that the Interior Dept. didn't exercise due diligence in explaining why the moratorium was neccessary.

“The court cannot substitute its judgment for that of the agency, but the agency must ‘cogently explain why it has exercised its discretion in a given manner,’” Feldman said, citing a previous ruling. “It has not done so.”
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It's the arbitrary and capricious standard that Interior ran up against. They have to get their ducks lined up when this goes back to court.

What's going to happen, is that the Interior Dept is going to appeal and submit a new plan.

The other thing, is that there is no "moratorium". I think that "moratorium" crap was just a charade implemented for mostly political purposes. And to get the dolphin huggers to shut up. The MMS continues to issue drilling waivers. I don't understand all the complexity, but it's clear that MMS is trying to walk a fine line between totally shutting down drilling, and getting caught with their pants down again, by not exercising appropriate oversight.

"Moratorium" is just political kabuki theater, as far as I can tell. These regulator dudes, who should have been nazi tree huggers instead of industry whores, are going to have to find the sweet spot between requiring more robust environmental reviews by the oil companies, and making sure an entire american industry isn't shut down.

That's why smart people work on this shit. It's complicated, and multiple factors have to be considered. It's not like a Glenn Beck twitter where he can just say any bullshit he wants.
 
Cypress said:
I usually pay attention to the actual findings of the court. A banner headline on Drudge or Huffington post just doesn't cut it.

These things are always more complicated than us message board hacks make them out to be.

The judge didn't decide economics are more important than blow outs.

He decided that the Interior Dept. didn't exercise due diligence in explaining why the moratorium was neccessary.



It's the arbitrary and capricious standard that Interior ran up against. They have to get their ducks lined up when this goes back to court.

What's going to happen, is that the Interior Dept is going to appeal and submit a new plan.

The other thing, is that there is no "moratorium". I think that "moratorium" crap was just a charade implemented for mostly political purposes. And to get the dolphin huggers to shut up. The MMS continues to issue drilling waivers. I don't understand all the complexity, but it's clear that MMS is trying to walk a fine line between totally shutting down drilling, and getting caught with their pants down again, by not exercising appropriate oversight.

"Moratorium" is just political kabuki theater, as far as I can tell. These regulator dudes, who should have been nazi tree huggers instead of industry whores, are going to have to find the sweet spot between requiring more robust environmental reviews by the oil companies, and making sure an entire american industry isn't shut down.

That's why smart people work on this shit. It's complicated, and multiple factors have to be considered. It's not like a Glenn Beck twitter where he can just say any bullshit he wants.
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Or, alternatively, the judge just got it wrong.
 
NigelTufnel said:
Or, alternatively, the judge just got it wrong.
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Nice!

I actually have no idea on the legal soundness of this ruling, I just am not informed enough and haven't read enough about it.

What I do know, is this ruling doesn't "shut down" the moratorium. It was a narrow decision, which basically invites the government to appeal and bring back a plan that - in the judges view - is more substantive and isn't prone to smack down on the basis of the arbitrary and capricious legal standard.


As for the "moratorium" I just checked the MMS current drilling activity log for deep water. As of June 21, there were 23 rigs drilling deep water prospects, including 2 BP rigs. Wow, this moratorium sounds horrific and devastating!
 
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Cypress said:
Nice!

I actually have no idea on the legal soundness of this ruling, I just am not informed enough and haven't read enough about it.

What I do know, is this ruling doesn't "shut down" the moratorium. It was a narrow decision, which basically invites the government to appeal and bring back a plan that - in the judges view - is more substantive and isn't prone to smack down on the basis of the arbitrary and capricious legal standard.


As for the "moratorium" I just checked the MMS current drilling activity log for deep water. As of June 21, there were 23 rigs drilling deep water prospects, including 2 BP rigs. Wow, this moratorium sounds horrific and devastaing!
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Actually, during the interim the "moratorium" is suspended. Therefore they said they would appeal.
 
Damocles said:
Actually, during the interim the "moratorium" is suspended. Therefore they said they would appeal.
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Good catch.

But, that's not how these things play out. The "suspension" of the moratorium will only last a few days. Maybe only a few hours. That's how these legal thingys between a chief executive, and some low level district judge play out. I've seen Governor Terminator play this game ad naseum.



"I will issue a new order in the coming days that eliminates any doubt that a moratorium is needed, appropriate, and within our authorities," U.S. Interior Secretary Kenneth Salazar said in a statement.

Administration officials said they would mount a two-pronged attack, appealing the court ruling and issuing a new order that would support a moratorium to allow enough time to ensure other exploratory drilling was safe.

http://www.reuters.com/article/idUSN1416392020100623?feedType=RSS&feedName=topNews
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Administration officials said they would mount a two-pronged attack....
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Did anyone EVER imagine a day and time where an administration in Washington would be using outright militaristic terminology to describe their actions against THE PEOPLE of the United States?
 
Cypress said:
Good catch.

But, that's not how these things play out. The "suspension" of the moratorium will only last a few days. Maybe only a few hours. That's how these legal thingys between a chief executive, and some low level district judge play out. I've seen Governor Terminator play this game ad naseum.
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It will pretty much depend on the higher court's ruling on the new order. From what I read the ruling was rather sound. Just shutting off all drilling would be like shutting down the roads because there was a huge accident somewhere.
 
I don't doubt that Cy, but his redevelopment plan better have an extra 50 billion for Louisiana if he wins the appeal or he'll lose La and TX. Now he didn't win them last time but we are a state that usually has Democratic Governors. Not sure if that qualifies as a purple state but Bush's failure here and Obama taking a shit on us will not look good for fence sitters. At least I hope so
 
Dixie said:
Did anyone EVER imagine a day and time where an administration in Washington would be using outright militaristic terminology to describe their actions against THE PEOPLE of the United States?
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No, I personally never imagined a day and time where an administration in Washington would talk about "attacking" a problem. I mean, who has ever heard anyone use such militaristic terminology. I bet Hitler "attacked" problems, too.
 
Damocles said:
It will pretty much depend on the higher court's ruling on the new order. From what I read the ruling was rather sound. Just shutting off all drilling would be like shutting down the roads because there was a huge accident somewhere.
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God damn, I should get a law degree, I would be totally unstoppable.

Everything I said would happen, is happening.

The White House has filed an appeal at the Fifth Circuit Court of Appeals and will proceed with the moratorium. The Department of the Interior told STRATFOR that the moratorium will remain in effect.

http://blogs.forbes.com/energysourc...on-against-the-deepwater-drilling-moratorium/
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Yeah, I've seen chief executives blow off these preliminary injunctions from some peon judge, using some fancy legal foot work. Governor Terminator is the master at it!

I read the judges ruling too. Or, at least parts of it. It's a pretty weird ruling. I'm not legally informed enough to make a snap judgements on the merit. But, like I said last night, the judge cited the arbitrary and capricious legal standard, and noted the limitation on the court to not substitute it's own opinion for an agency opinion - but to merely rule on whether the agency either violated the law (they didn't), or if the agency finding was arbitrary and capricious. But, then his ruling goes on to apparently substitute his judgement in place of the agency's judgement. Weird. Oh well, what do I know, I'm just an armchair lawyer.


On a holistic level, I'm down with topspin that there must be a way to not make this a blanket moratorium. There probably should be some wiggle room for waivers, and regulatory-based exceptions. Smart ass people work on this shit, so hopefully the new moratorium plan will have some wiggle room. I don't think any of us really know what's in the actual moratorium plan, so I'm not going to get up on a bar stool and shout that I know what the F is going on.

Personally, I'd let chevron, petrobras, and maybe exxonmobil keep drilling, if they can show their safety plans are up to snuff. My experience is that those mother effers know how to drill deep water wells. :clink:
 
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there is plenty evidence that the moritorium should have been on BP alone. Several times other execs said we never skip this huge step or that huge saftey precaution.
Its exactly like shutting down all air travel because boing has a faulty engine on a 747. And that Cangaroo group of enviro-nazi's as the deciders is laughable.
 
Topspin said:
there is plenty evidence that the moritorium should have been on BP alone. Several times other execs said we never skip this huge step or that huge saftey precaution.
Its exactly like shutting down all air travel because boing has a faulty engine on a 747. And that Cangaroo group of enviro-nazi's as the deciders is laughable.
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Horrible analogy. A faulty engine on one plane doesn't affect an entire region.
 
Onceler said:
Most people care about people, wildlife & the economy.

You're the only one I know who cares so much about wells.
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This is basically what it boils down to: the policy judgment of whether the harms resulting from a spill that no one really knows how to stop are sufficient to justify the potential harms imposed by the moratorium. The judge supplanted his judgment on that question for the judgment of the regulators, which is not the proper role of the judge in this situation.
 
NigelTufnel said:
No, I personally never imagined a day and time where an administration in Washington would talk about "attacking" a problem. I mean, who has ever heard anyone use such militaristic terminology. I bet Hitler "attacked" problems, too.
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LOL.
 
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