Nihilism is Reality

AnyOldIron

AnyOldIron

Atheist Missionary
Many misuse the term nihilism to mean the understanding that there is no meaning.

This is a misreading. Nihilism is the understanding that there is no innate meaning in existence, that meaning is a human creation.

This is reality. Meaning is only found where we invest it. If someone whom I invested meaning in (ie a friend) dies, then the meaning is profound. But on a daily basis, thousands of people die and few have any significance unless I had invested meaning in each individual who dies.

We derive meaning from many sources, religion, materialism, intellectualism, love, family.. the sources of meaning in individual's lives are as diverse as the individuals themselves and the deriviation of meaning is often from a combination of these.

But the sources of meaning are fleeting. An individual with a materialistic bent might derive meaning from the acquisition of a Wii, for example, but the meaning derived will be fleeting, will fade and die, and the individual must then find another source. They end up like a dog chasing its tail.

Because there is no innate or constant meaning, we humans must continue to build structures of meaning. If they fail, you are faced with the true, and rather depressing nature of existence, which is cold, uncaring and amoral. To overcome this is a considerable achievement, a source for meaning in itself, though like all meaning, it is fleeting.

Maybe it is better to build structures of meaning from sources such as family, love, consumerism and religion and fluctuate between them for the source of meaning than to attempt to face the nihilistic reality of existence. When one fades and dies, there are others to rely on.

It makes one relish the idea of returning to our animalistic origins, when meaning wasn't a consideration. It is, after all, only through the human trait of attempting to understand that the notion of meaning derives.
 
Someday I might do some research on Nihilsm so I can understand what you are talking about AnyOld. Until then I defer to your superior knowledge.
You post does make sense to me, but I don't have the proper points of reference to put it in perspective.
 
I do understand what he's talking about, but still find nihilism -- or perhaps I ought to style it Nihilism, after Damo -- rather unappealing as a doctrine.

Nihilists have been making this same observation (cum excuse) for quite a long while now. The trouble is that, as a doctrine, thats not how people take it. Individuals raised to believe that there is some sort of higher reality beyond everyday existence -- some Meaning and Purpose behind events -- tend to behave very badly when that illusion is removed.

Now, if people could be raised to disbelieve the notion that there is a higher reality, that might be different. The trouble is that there's no apparent way to get from here to there.
 
Very Very good. I agree completely. You are delving into how some of my core philosophy has been formulated.
 
Grind said:
Very Very good. I agree completely. You are delving into how some of my core philosophy has been formulated.
Click to expand...
Except you seem to stop short of the part where you build (social) structures that take the place of mystically derived meaning. ;)
 
I'll make meaning my own way, Social structures may be yours and everyone elses way to meaning but it doesn't have to be mine.
 
Nihilists have been making this same observation (cum excuse) for quite a long while now. The trouble is that, as a doctrine, thats not how people take it. Individuals raised to believe that there is some sort of higher reality beyond everyday existence -- some Meaning and Purpose behind events -- tend to behave very badly when that illusion is removed.

Now, if people could be raised to disbelieve the notion that there is a higher reality, that might be different. The trouble is that there's no apparent way to get from here to there.

Its an ugly reality, Ornot, as I stated, it is easier to construct a false reality of innate meaning.

But it is reality and we have to accept reality. We cannot be like children who create invisible friends to comfort ourselves.

It is true that those who lose their artificial (ie innate meaning) reality can often suffer. I have. But you come through that. You overcome (don't want to sound too Neitzschean) the fact that meaning is only found where we invest it.

People often mistake nihilism for a pessimistic notion, but in fact, once you have overcome (what JPS described in Nausea) it is life affirming. It forces you to become a stronger, emotionally-self dependent person...

How we get from our current mass-investment in false reality is another matter. A steady erosion is probably the only method. However a vanguard (how revolutionary..lol) is needed to help people come to terms, and overcome...
 
Spread the Good Word, Brother Anyold. Ingolorious hallelujah, Apeople!

LOL! The atheist missionary thing is just tongue-in-cheek, it is just a philosophical position really. lol
 
Very Very good. I agree completely. You are delving into how some of my core philosophy has been formulated.

Reality is reality, Grind.

But because existence is cold, uncaring and nihilistic doesn't mean that we must be. It is not in our nature, so to speak.

Time restricted me from delving further into the sources we use to derive meaning from... they are all entirely social. Without the interaction of others, humans would act as wild animals (I realise that we are animals - hence the wild qualifier), we would need only to satisfy our immediate needs - hunger, thirst, lust etc.

Meaning may be subjective, but it is certainly defined and derived from our social arrangement...
 
I'll make meaning my own way, Social structures may be yours and everyone elses way to meaning but it doesn't have to be mine.

No man is an island. Social structures are exactly where even you derive meaning from. That meaning may be subjective, but it isn't created in isolation.
 
Well said AOI. I would describe myself as an Existentialist. But I am an existentialist who realizes that nihilism is the stark truth. However from that knowledge I seek to construct a philosophy and code of living that is logically consistent. However there are core principles that are assumed such as life being valuable, or free will should be continued. You cannot prove these things to be valuable but we try to use logical consistency to show them to be better than alternatives offered.
 
Of course nothing is really "significant" or "meaningful" outside the interpretations we put on it. Nihilists, however, will get to the point where they use nihilism as a bunker buster against any and everything, getting to the absurd point where they will argue that the value a person places on himself or his people is "irrational". Nihilism is the ultimate form of identity manipulation, as it ultimately attacks a person's right to life and self preservation as merely a "construct". I am angered by nihilists who use their nihilism in this fashion.
 
I agree Asshat. Nihilism if misused is the most dangerous ism of them all.

To quote my avatar "Nihilists! Fuck me. I mean, say what you like about the tenets of National Socialism, Dude, at least it's an ethos."
 
However from that knowledge I seek to construct a philosophy and code of living that is logically consistent. However there are core principles that are assumed such as life being valuable, or free will should be continued. You cannot prove these things to be valuable but we try to use logical consistency to show them to be better than alternatives offered.

I also try to build a personal outlook on the basis of the reality of nihilism, the key, and often forgotten, part of nihilism states that although meaning isn't innate, it can exist as a human creation. Nihilism is a hill you must climb and get over, its a struggle accepting the lack of meaning innate in existence, but once you get over the hill, you build your own meaning and reality, and it is much more substantial than artificial sources that dictate an innate meaning.

I would however argue against the notion of free will on the basis that human will isn't very free but that is another argument... That life is valuable is something that can be logically demonstrated with a reasoning to support it that is difficult to argue away, no need to hold it as an assumption...
 
Nihilists, however, will get to the point where they use nihilism as a bunker buster against any and everything, getting to the absurd point where they will argue that the value a person places on himself or his people is "irrational".

Very good point. I know a few nihilists that use this, but its not hard to argue against. Simply state, 'ok, we accept as an underlying implicit premise that there is no innate meaning in life, but from that we can then build our own meaning, we construct our own and as such it is obstructive to dismiss out of hand on the basis of a premise we both accept.'

It is simply a dead dogma to parrot nihilist truth without presenting further reasoning.....
 
Last edited:
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top