No Evidence Russia Was Behind Nord Stream Sabotage

M

McRocket

New member
The Washington Post reported that Western officials doubt Moscow was responsible for bombing its own pipelines

'After months of investigations into the sabotage of the Nord Stream natural gas pipelines that connect Russia to Germany, no evidence has been found linking Russia to the attack, The Washington Post reported on Wednesday, citing interviews with 23 diplomats and intelligence officials from nine different countries.

“There is no evidence at this point that Russia was behind the sabotage,” one European official said. Some Western officials were quick to blame Russia for the September attacks, but the report said some officials now say Russia is not to blame.

Russia has little motive to attack the Nord Stream pipelines, which are mainly owned by the Russian state gas company Gazprom. Nord Stream 2 never delivered gas to Germany, and Nord Stream 1 stopped making shipments a few weeks before the blasts. But Russia would have an interest in keeping the pipelines intact to maintain some leverage over Europe as it faces an energy crisis.

The Post report recognized that Russia had little motive for the sabotage. “The rationale that it was Russia [that attacked the pipelines] never made sense to me,” one European official said. A handful of officials said they regretted how quickly many in the West were to put the blame on Moscow.'

https://news.antiwar.com/2022/12/21/no-evidence-russia-was-behind-nord-stream-sabotage/
https://archive.vn/mzWlV
 
So who did it? Most likely based upon what I know is that this was a CIA job, almost certainly contracted out. But I would like to know more.
 
McRocket said:
Two thoughts:

1) WELL DUH!!!
Why the fuck would Russia blow up their own pipelines?
And Biden stated he would end Nord Stream if Russia invaded Ukraine.

https://www.newsweek.com/video-biden-saying-end-nord-stream-resurfaces-after-pipeline-leak-1747005

Yet, SO MANY, gullible fools believe that Russia did it anyway.

:rolleyes:


2) Good for the Washington Post.
I imagine the Biden admin will not like this.


One again, I am 100% AGAINST Russia invading Ukraine proper.
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What is "Ukraine proper"?
 
There is no evidence to suggest that the US or UK had anything to do with it either.

And, until it is inspected and investigated properly, Russia and the entire world will not know who destroyed it.

So the best thing to do is carry on with the investigation process. So Russia, where are you on this investigation?

I mean, are you too Preoccupied to conduct your own investigation? Well, heaven Forbid! :laugh:

I bet we won't know anything until the war is over!
 
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Diesel said:
Nothing would make you happier, would it? I think you might be the most anti-American poster on this site.
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I'm anti-American stupidity. You're a stupidity buff, you brain-dead twazzock.

Haw, haw................................haw.
 
Geeko Sportivo said:
There is no evidence to suggest that the US or UK had anything to do with it either.

And, until it is inspected and investigated properly, Russia and the entire world will not know who destroyed it.

So the best thing to do is carry on with the investigation process. So Russia, where are you on this investigation?

I mean, are you too Preoccupied to conduct your own investigation? Well, heaven Forbid! :laugh:

I bet we won't know anything until the war is over!
Click to expand...

Dumbass.

Nord Stream blasts were 'act of terrorism' - Putin —


Oct 31, 2022Russian President Vladimir Putin has described the damage to the two Nord Stream pipelines under the Baltic Sea, telling reporters on Monday evening what Gazprom investigators saw after being allowed to inspect the site.

https://www.rt.com/russia/565697-gazprom-nord-stream-inspection/
Click to expand...

Russian officials are unsurprisingly placing the blame on the West and have convened a United Nations Security Council session to discuss the matter.

https://www.themoscowtimes.com/2022...who-attacked-the-nord-stream-pipelines-a78952
Click to expand...
 
Geeko Sportivo said:
There is no evidence to suggest that the US or UK had anything to do with it either.

And, until it is inspected and investigated properly, Russia and the entire world will not know who destroyed it.

So the best thing to do is carry on with the investigation process. So Russia, where are you on this investigation?

I mean, are you too Preoccupied to conduct your own investigation? Well, heaven Forbid! :laugh:



I bet we won't know anything until the war is over!
Click to expand...
Whoever destroyed it knows.
 
ExpressLane said:
Whoever destroyed it knows.
Click to expand...

What's your best guess?

It is not logical to think the UK or the US would want to be the blame for such an environmental disaster like that.

NWT7A4GJO5JURJWWRV7P7A4DXA.jpg
 
Diesel said:
What is "Ukraine proper"?
Click to expand...

I was wondering if anyone would ask me that.


Ukraine proper is all of pre-2014 Ukraine EXCEPT for Crimea, Donetsk and Luhansk.

All of whom are:
- of primarily, Russian descent
- voted over 85% to leave Ukraine (a flawed referendum, to be sure)
- and have stated in western poll after western poll that they OVERWHELMINGLY, do NOT want to be part of Ukraine.
Hell, Crimea was part of Russia for centuries until Khrushchev gave it to Ukraine in the 1950's.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2014_Donbas_status_referendums
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2014_Crimean_status_referendum
https://www.foreignaffairs.com/articles/ukraine/2020-04-03/russia-love

These no longer belong to Ukraine.

And I could give a shit about Kiev's secession law that says no one can leave Ukraine without the consent of the entire country.
That is insane.
If (roughly) 70+% of a state/province/oblast/whatever want to leave a country?
And are willing to take their share of the national debt on a per capita basis?
They should be allowed to leave.

And I care not if someone disagrees - they are wrong.
 
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Geeko Sportivo said:
What's your best guess?

It is not logical to think the UK or the US would want to be the blame for such an environmental disaster like that.

NWT7A4GJO5JURJWWRV7P7A4DXA.jpg
Click to expand...
My guess and it is only a guess is Russia sent a pipeline pig with a bomb down the pipeline. I think they did it so they could shut gas off to Europe and look like the good guy when they restarted gas for a cold Europe. I think they wanted the world to suspect Ukraine and the US. Putin wants to drive a wedge between the US and Ukraine and Europe. The location was in a shallow area where repair would be fairly easy. The amount of environmental damage is small some methane in the atmosphere, not ideal, natural methane seeps leak into the atmosphere all the time. .
 
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McRocket said:
The Washington Post reported that Western officials doubt Moscow was responsible for bombing its own pipelines



'After months of investigations into the sabotage of the Nord Stream natural gas pipelines that connect Russia to Germany, no evidence has been found linking Russia to the attack, The Washington Post reported on Wednesday, citing interviews with 23 diplomats and intelligence officials from nine different countries.



“There is no evidence at this point that Russia was behind the sabotage,” one European official said. Some Western officials were quick to blame Russia for the September attacks, but the report said some officials now say Russia is not to blame.



Russia has little motive to attack the Nord Stream pipelines, which are mainly owned by the Russian state gas company Gazprom. Nord Stream 2 never delivered gas to Germany, and Nord Stream 1 stopped making shipments a few weeks before the blasts. But Russia would have an interest in keeping the pipelines intact to maintain some leverage over Europe as it faces an energy crisis.



The Post report recognized that Russia had little motive for the sabotage. “The rationale that it was Russia [that attacked the pipelines] never made sense to me,” one European official said. A handful of officials said they regretted how quickly many in the West were to put the blame on Moscow.'



https://news.antiwar.com/2022/12/21/no-evidence-russia-was-behind-nord-stream-sabotage/
https://archive.vn/mzWlV
Click to expand...



McRocket,




(1) It is no secret that the Nord Stream 1 and 2 gas pipelines were sabotaged. Seismologists in Denmark collected data that was consistent with underwater explosions that detonated at the time large bubbles of gas appeared on the surface of the sea. This gas had obviously leaked out from ruptures in the pipelines caused by explosive devices that had been attached to them and then detonated. It would have been easy to organise this kind of sabotage as the Nord Stream 1 and 2 pipes are not that far below the surface of the sea. Frogmen could have easily attached explosives to the pipes and then detonated them whenever they were instructed.



(2) As for the saboteur, the majority of people are now looking first and foremost toward Russia as the culprit.



(3) This sounds bizarre as the two Nord Stream pipelines were Russian. Right?



(4) My guess is that Putin ordered the sabotage of the Nord Stream pipelines, which carry natural gas from Russia to Germany, as a means of sending a message to Western Europe that Russia still controls the gas weapon and that energy supplies to Europe are in doubt.



(5) Not long after the pipeline sabotage, Putin effectively cut off Germany's gas/energy supply. This has resulted in an ongoing (winter) energy crisis in Germany as we speak. Experts predict that Germany may JUST scrape through this winter in one piece, but the forecasts for 2023 are very bleak indeed.



(7) So, I think Putin ordered the Nord Stream piplines sabotaged with explosives as a pretext for telling Germany that Russia was having legitimate"maintanence problems" with the two pipelines and in consequence the volume of gas Russia could delivered would be unavoidably cut quite drastically until the problems were rectified.



(8) The bullshit-free version of this is that Putin turned off the gas spigots to Germany through Nord Stream 1 and 2.



(7) In my opinion Putin is looking for ways to change the narrative and put pressure on the collective West to stop backing Ukraine.



(8) With respect to (7) (above) it is EXTREMELY interesting to note that in 2018, when he was President, Donald Trump gave a very stern and emphatic address to the delegates at that year's United Nations' General Assembly in which he scolded Germany for their high dependence on Russian gas (energy). Trump warned them in a none- too- subtle manner that their reliance on Russia for the majority of their energy was foolishness, and they should immediately terminate the arrangement they have with Putin's Russia with a view to building and consolidating greater energy independence (BTW: this, in short, was an eminently feasible and achievable proposition). The response of the UN's German delegation was to openly laugh and shake their heads in Trump's face - but they're not laughing now.That same year, Predident Trump addressed the heads of NATO with exactly the same warming about Germany and its neighbouring Western Europeans dependence on Russian energy (gas) If you watch the video of Trump's address to the UNGA and his NATO dress of 2018, you will see that he is clear verty pissed off and speaking in a blustery "shut-the-fuck-up-and -listen-to-what-I'm-telling-you-righ- now" tone, which clearly ruffled the delicate "feathers"of the refined European diplomatics and bureaucratic "Grand "Poo-bahs" in his audiences.




My interpretation of this is firstly that Donald Trump knew Vladimir Putin. He knew who "Putin the man" was - what "made him tick". He had met him a number of times for lengthy discussions about foreign policy and also watched him carefully from the White House. Putin was a former KGB Officer, a thug, a spy and a stone killer. He had no moral conscience and the fact did not bother him in the slightest. What Putin yearned for was absolute power; that was his end, and he would use any means to achieve it. Basically Putin was a dangerous "classic" psychopath: intelligent, deceptive, cunning, fearless utterly untrustworthy, manipulative and ruthless. Trump knew all of this, he would have figured it out 30 minutes into their first face-to-face dialogue with each other. Because Trump understood who Putan was as a person, he was able to "manage" him successfully. This management basically involved setting specific boundaries that Putin was prohibited from crossing; and telling him that if he did beach one of these boundaries his life would literally be worth living.




Finally, Trump knew in 2018 that a Dictator like Putin does not supply a Western nation like Germany (which has the largest economy in the EU) with the majority of its energy supplies because he is a fine , upstanding business man eager to strike a mutually satisfactory gentleman's deal with a neighbouring country. He knew that a Western nation should not be cutting any deals with Putin FULL STOP, because he is a lying, manipulative, treacherous bastard - someone who would happily slit your wife's throat for $1.00. Trump knew that the Nord Stream piplines gas Putin was delivering to Germany was of tremendous value for Putin as a potential POLITICAL WEAPON. If you are dependent on Russia for energy (gas) like Germany was, if that gas supply is suddenly shut off, YOU'RE FUCKED. And that comes pretty damn close to describing Germany's energy situation right now ... Nothing works or runs or is produced in country that has no energy - ENERGY is like OXYGEN is to every animal that respirates; without it they cease to exist.





Dachshund - the Wonder Hound




DLM....Dachshund Lines Matter !!
 
ExpressLane said:
My guess and it is only a guess is Russia sent a pipeline pig with a bomb down the pipeline. I think they did it so they could shut gas off to Europe and look like the good guy when they restarted gas for a cold Europe. I think they wanted the world to suspect Ukraine and the US. Putin wants to drive a wedge between the US and Ukraine and Europe. The location was in a shallow area where repair would be repetitively easy. The amount of environmental damage is small some methane in the atmosphere, not ideal, natural methane seeps leak into the atmosphere all the time. .
Click to expand...

That sounds pretty logical to me!

Thanks!
 
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