Norwegian State is this the way to go ??

Hello Heff,

What is totalitarian about socialism? Wealth redistribution can lead to a very content society. It does not have to be absolute wealth redistribution. But it does need to be enough to avoid a society of a few with great luxury, and many who lack basics.

Wealth redistribution is a euphemism for taking people's money and giving it to others. It's plunder. It's legal robbery.

True. My bad. Please allow me to correct my statement.

Extreme wealth concentration is a bad thing.

Why is it a bad thing? Why should you or I not be allowed to concentrate our wealth?
 
Hello Heff,

Wealth redistribution is a euphemism for taking people's money and giving it to others. It's plunder. It's legal robbery.

If it is legal it is not robbery at all. It is an institutionalized way of sharing a small part of our good fortune. Taxing to fund government assistance programs never made a rich man poor. Are you so wedded to wealth that you think it is only possible if others lack even the basics of a comfortable life? Did you know that if all the wealth of the USA were to be evenly distributed that it would not make everyone equally poor but instead comfortably set? The figure works out to around 200 grand per person. That's every man, woman, child, even newborn. A family of five would have a million dollars. That's how wealthy our nation is. It is unconscionable that in this nation of such great wealth that so many have so little as a few have more than they can ever spend in a thousand lifetimes. And they complain about being taxed too much! Simply amazing. And disgustingly greedy.

Why is it a bad thing? Why should you or I not be allowed to concentrate our wealth?

We are TOTALLY allowed to do that!. Nothing about mixing socialism in with our capitalism prevents that. It never has. We've had socialism since the 30's. And we've got billionaires. The only difference here is we are dropping the myths about it and being honest with ourselves. We can still get rich, be rich, and also help the needy without being judgemental. WWJD

Extreme wealth inequality is hurting our nation; holding us back. We could do so much more than we are doing. We ration out good education only to those who can pay big or go into decades of debt similar to a home mortgage. That is the wrong place for profiting to be made. Education is the key to success. Public education, K-16, is the key to national success. Our nation will do amazing things when we make excellent education freely available to all who can get good grades and excel. Pure capitalism is a very inefficient way to utilize our potential, you know. So many people who could accomplish so much are prevented by lack of wealth. If we only turn them free they will generate more wealth than you could envision. Socialism is how we can tap the wasted potential of all that human capital. Mixing socialism and capitalism is a proven winner in nations all over this planet. All we have to do is open our eyes and see it. Then DO IT!

And it won't prevent anybody from getting as rich as they desire, if that's your goal. Personally, I think there is so much more to life than the acquisition of money, but if that's your thing then nothing will prevent that. Taxing NEVER made a rich man poor. Never happened even one time. We only tax the super-rich heavily, and then only the amount which is OVER what everybody else already has. The rich will AWLAYS be richer than the rest. I don't really get this lust for wealth, but if that's your thing then you are free to get as rich as you like. As long as you pay your taxes. There is no maximum wealth limit.
 
On what information I have, countries with more equal wages, other things being equal, are much happier than unequal ones. The Scandinavian countries have, on the whole, much more efficient and less offensive forms of capitalism than, say, the USA, where people go when they want to be very rich and show off.
 
Hello iolo.

On what information I have, countries with more equal wages, other things being equal, are much happier than unequal ones. The Scandinavian countries have, on the whole, much more efficient and less offensive forms of capitalism than, say, the USA, where people go when they want to be very rich and show off.

Oh, you just can't believe the extent of the gaudy displays of wealth here. Flaunting big money appears to be far more the fad than responsible stewardship of it. For some, the draw of big money seems to be not actually enjoying it, but showing it off and making sure others know they have it. It can't be comfortable to adorn lots of big heavy jewelry. It is not done for personal comfort. That's for sure. The whole point of it is for others to see it. And that just strikes me as ever so shallow. I think it is epitomized in the beverage called Goldschlager. That's the alcoholic beverage that actually has fine slivers of real gold mixed into it. As if it is not enough to adorn one's body with gold, it has to be ingested. And it's tasteless! (In more ways than one...)
 
Hello iolo.



Oh, you just can't believe the extent of the gaudy displays of wealth here. Flaunting big money appears to be far more the fad than responsible stewardship of it. For some, the draw of big money seems to be not actually enjoying it, but showing it off and making sure others know they have it. It can't be comfortable to adorn lots of big heavy jewelry. It is not done for personal comfort. That's for sure. The whole point of it is for others to see it. And that just strikes me as ever so shallow. I think it is epitomized in the beverage called Goldschlager. That's the alcoholic beverage that actually has fine slivers of real gold mixed into it. As if it is not enough to adorn one's body with gold, it has to be ingested. And it's tasteless! (In more ways than one...)

Excellently put!
 
Yea it appears to work in a country of.

Population of Norway (2019 and historical)
Year Population Norway Global Rank
2018 5,353,363 119
2017 5,305,383 118
2016 5,254,694 118

Not bad for a country smaller New York City.

But like all things you socialist don't live in a real world.

How come they're not reporting how much of their GDP they provide for their national defense? Oh! that's right, next time Germany invades them they'll simply rely on America to come back again and free them from the military authoritarians, huh?
 
Hello Robo,

How come they're not reporting how much of their GDP they provide for their national defense? Oh! that's right, next time Germany invades them they'll simply rely on America to come back again and free them from the military authoritarians, huh?

I would think an invasion from Russia might be the bigger concern.

I notice you didn't make any references to the per capita GDP of Norway. Understandable. Socialism has made them so much richer than the USA. Despite all our vast wealth, squeezed out of every possible American from whom it can be extracted, we don't have as much wealth per person as little old Norway. It's almost as if we are stupid as Donald Trump, who would be far richer had he simply taken everything he inherited and just put it into market indexed funds, rather than try so hard to get rich by ripping off contractors and Trump University 'students,' etc, among his many schemes and scams. He actually worked himself into being poorer, then had to sell his name and become a public TV reality show spectacle to even get where he is. What a loser. Old money is not impressed.
 
Yea it appears to work in a country of.

Population of Norway (2019 and historical)
Year Population Norway Global Rank
2018 5,353,363 119
2017 5,305,383 118
2016 5,254,694 118

Not bad for a country smaller New York City.

But like all things you socialist don't live in a real world.

^^ A full, clear cut, and unambiguous admission that Nordic style socialism is a highly successful and admired socio-economic system - supposedly below some magical threshold of population size.

There are plenty of states in this country with less than ten million in population. Assuming you stand by the logic of your post - that socialism works great below a supposed population threshold - , then I assume you would support the adoption of Nordic socialist models in states that meet your magical population threshold - aka, I assume you passionately support efforts by states to adopt single payer healthcare, minimum wage increases, mandatory paid maternity leave, etc. at the state level.
 
Hello Heff,



If it is legal it is not robbery at all. It is an institutionalized way of sharing a small part of our good fortune. Taxing to fund government assistance programs never made a rich man poor. Are you so wedded to wealth that you think it is only possible if others lack even the basics of a comfortable life? Did you know that if all the wealth of the USA were to be evenly distributed that it would not make everyone equally poor but instead comfortably set? The figure works out to around 200 grand per person. That's every man, woman, child, even newborn. A family of five would have a million dollars. That's how wealthy our nation is. It is unconscionable that in this nation of such great wealth that so many have so little as a few have more than they can ever spend in a thousand lifetimes. And they complain about being taxed too much! Simply amazing. And disgustingly greedy.

No one is stopping you from giving others your money. So why don't you just do that? Because those who advocate for state-sanctioned plunder would rather others do it for them.



We are TOTALLY allowed to do that!. Nothing about mixing socialism in with our capitalism prevents that. It never has. We've had socialism since the 30's. And we've got billionaires. The only difference here is we are dropping the myths about it and being honest with ourselves. We can still get rich, be rich, and also help the needy without being judgemental. WWJD

Extreme wealth inequality is hurting our nation; holding us back. We could do so much more than we are doing. We ration out good education only to those who can pay big or go into decades of debt similar to a home mortgage. That is the wrong place for profiting to be made. Education is the key to success. Public education, K-16, is the key to national success. Our nation will do amazing things when we make excellent education freely available to all who can get good grades and excel. Pure capitalism is a very inefficient way to utilize our potential, you know. So many people who could accomplish so much are prevented by lack of wealth. If we only turn them free they will generate more wealth than you could envision. Socialism is how we can tap the wasted potential of all that human capital. Mixing socialism and capitalism is a proven winner in nations all over this planet. All we have to do is open our eyes and see it. Then DO IT!

And it won't prevent anybody from getting as rich as they desire, if that's your goal. Personally, I think there is so much more to life than the acquisition of money, but if that's your thing then nothing will prevent that. Taxing NEVER made a rich man poor. Never happened even one time. We only tax the super-rich heavily, and then only the amount which is OVER what everybody else already has. The rich will AWLAYS be richer than the rest. I don't really get this lust for wealth, but if that's your thing then you are free to get as rich as you like. As long as you pay your taxes. There is no maximum wealth limit.

No one is stopping your or anyone else from handing your wealth over for redistribution to other people. So why not just do that instead of forcing others to?
 
^^ A full, clear cut, and unambiguous admission that Nordic style socialism is a highly successful and admired socio-economic system - supposedly below some magical threshold of population size.

There are plenty of states in this country with less than ten million in population. Assuming you stand by the logic of your post - that socialism works great below a supposed population threshold - , then I assume you would support the adoption of Nordic socialist models in states that meet your magical population threshold - aka, I assume you passionately support efforts by states to adopt single payer healthcare, minimum wage increases, mandatory paid maternity leave, etc. at the state level.

If you believe a country whose population is smaller than NYC has a system that would work in a country of 350 million you are a fool. Vote Bernie he is as bigger an idiot than you are.
 
Hello Cypress,

^^ A full, clear cut, and unambiguous admission that Nordic style socialism is a highly successful and admired socio-economic system - supposedly below some magical threshold of population size.

There are plenty of states in this country with less than ten million in population. Assuming you stand by the logic of your post - that socialism works great below a supposed population threshold - , then I assume you would support the adoption of Nordic socialist models in states that meet your magical population threshold - aka, I assume you passionately support efforts by states to adopt single payer healthcare, minimum wage increases, mandatory paid maternity leave, etc. at the state level.

How many of those (red) States of meager population levels are paying for their own defense? Are they net contributors or net takers from the federal budget which also pays for their defense? Looks to me like capitalism has failed them in that respect. They can't even pay for their own people to eat, much less pay for their own defense.

Look at two of the biggest takers from the federal budget, Louisiana and West Virginia. These are both States where Republican owned industry extracts fossil fuels oil, gas and coal; as they pretend to be great and wonderful 'job creators.' The only problem is: the jobs they create have not resulted in a strong middle class at all. Oh, the rich got richer, but what of the rest? Those are poverty-ridden States which are supported by the taxes paid by more populous liberal States. And both are heavily polluted, which causes disease and early death. Both of these strong Republican States have average lifespans well below the national average (by a matter of years.) Have Republicans no pride? Do they just trash the places they operate and then shrug, as if there is simply no other way to conduct life? It really is atrocious the way they feed those people propaganda and get them to vote against their own better interest, leaving disease, poverty and early death in their wake.
 
Hello Cypress,



How many of those (red) States of meager population levels are paying for their own defense? Are they net contributors or net takers from the federal budget which also pays for their defense? Looks to me like capitalism has failed them in that respect. They can't even pay for their own people to eat, much less pay for their own defense.

Look at two of the biggest takers from the federal budget, Louisiana and West Virginia. These are both States where Republican owned industry extracts fossil fuels oil, gas and coal; as they pretend to be great and wonderful 'job creators.' The only problem is: the jobs they create have not resulted in a strong middle class at all. Oh, the rich got richer, but what of the rest? Those are poverty-ridden States which are supported by the taxes paid by more populous liberal States. And both are heavily polluted, which causes disease and early death. Both of these strong Republican States have average lifespans well below the national average (by a matter of years.) Have Republicans no pride? Do they just trash the places they operate and then shrug, as if there is simply no other way to conduct life? It really is atrocious the way they feed those people propaganda and get them to vote against their own better interest, leaving disease, poverty and early death in their wake.

If West Virginia coal had been treated as a public resource the way Norwegians treat their oil as a public trust, West Virginia would probably be one of the most prosperous states in the nation, with very low levels of poverty.
 
Hello Cypress,

If West Virginia coal had been treated as a public resource the way Norwegians treat their oil as a public trust, West Virginia would probably be one of the most prosperous states in the nation, with very low levels of poverty.

Wow, great point.

Maybe we should start claiming that pure capitalism has failed everywhere it has been tried.

Alaska's economy couldn't survive without their oil-funded UBI.
 
Hello Cypress,


Wow, great point.

Maybe we should start claiming that pure capitalism has failed everywhere it has been tried.

Alaska's economy couldn't survive without their oil-funded UBI.

Alaskan's of all political stripes like their socialism, when it comes to their UBI.

Even so, it seems to me that UBI is pretty reductionist, compared to how Norway has managed their mineral resources as a public trust, and invested it back into the social welfare of the nation.

The question should be asked if Alaska had started, decades ago like Norway did, to treat their mineral wealth as a true public resource, to be held as a public trust, and in the Nordic model have been used to invest in the people's welfare -- what the state would look like now. Probably a lot like Denmark or Iceland - one of the most egalitarian, successful, admired, and prosperous socialist places on the planet.
 
Hello Cypress,

Alaskan's of all political stripes like their socialism, when it comes to their UBI.

Even so, it seems to me that UBI is pretty reductionist, compared to how Norway has managed their mineral resources as a public trust, and invested it back into the social welfare of the nation.

The question should be asked if Alaska had started, decades ago like Norway did, to treat their mineral wealth as a true public resource, to be held as a public trust, and in the Nordic model have been used to invest in the people's welfare -- what the state would look like now. Probably a lot like Denmark or Iceland - one of the most egalitarian, successful, admired, and prosperous socialist places on the planet.

That's a really good point. They only dabbled in spreading the wealth around. It's popular there with both the left and the right because it injects capital into the local economies. It may not be much to try to live on, but those who have little spend every bit of what they get. All of that goes right back into the economy. If they buy groceries it supports the local grocer, if they pay rent it supports the local landlord, if they buy a car it supports the car dealer, and so on.
 
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