Obama: If you got a business, you didn't build that!

Education and intelligence are not connected at all, Rana. My grandfather was the most intelligent man I ever knew, far more than my father. My grandfather did not read or write anything other than his own name. Although he was never compensated for it or even recognized in any real way he was directly responsible for tire building techniques that made Firestone many millions of dollars. And he was a genius in about anything mechanical and a pretty doggone good electrician and appliance repairman.

You are correct about intelligence, I was just relating my comment to jmac's mindset.

It is unfortunate your grandfather did not benefit from his brilliance.

There are different areas of intelligence, also, and I have always thought the one size fits all approach in our schools needs to be changed.
 
We'd had more inventions in the last 100 years than in the last 1000. Many space programs led to commercial products.

As for prospering from ones inventions that's fine. However, we have to be careful we don't end up with two civilizations in one country. By that I mean some people having 21st century technology while others are still living/struggling in the past. A large gap in income/wealth will lead to that and that results in an unstable society.

I'm not talking about wealth redistribution in the sense one person has a 3-D TV and someone else is watching an old B&W 12". I'm talking about a society where everything costs money including life's bare necessities. We can't have many people extremely well off while others are dying from a lack of medical care. We can't have a large segment of the population thriving while others are going hungry. As society progresses we have to bring the less fortunate along with us. It's not a case of not wanting others to have a lot. It's a case of not allowing others to have nothing.

Here's what you don't seem to get... Utopia does not exist. You say "we can't have" this or that, but the truth is, we can't avoid those things. We're never going to witness a time where everyone has equal material things, or wealth, or health care availability, or any fucking thing else. As we economically prosper and grow, it is a natural tendency for the wealthy to become wealthier and outpace the poor, who are less motivated to become wealthy. You can't "fix" this problem, it will naturally happen EVEN if you evenly divided ALL wealth on the planet! Immediately, those who are motivated to earn wealth will again go to work earning more wealth than a person who has the exact same resources but less motivation. Within a short time, you again have people with more than others, and pulling away. The ONLY way to prevent this, is to prevent people from success. In other words, our two options here, are for the rich to get richer while the poor lag behind... or for everyone to have an empty and waiting soup bowl. I like MY option better! Sorry!
 
Just when are you going to jump off that merry-go-round, jaybird?


As long as 'progressives' attempt to impose their beliefs, and ideas on others regardless of the willingness of the will of the people, that merry-go-round as you say keeps turning.
 
Here's what you don't seem to get... Utopia does not exist. You say "we can't have" this or that, but the truth is, we can't avoid those things. We're never going to witness a time where everyone has equal material things, or wealth, or health care availability, or any fucking thing else. As we economically prosper and grow, it is a natural tendency for the wealthy to become wealthier and outpace the poor, who are less motivated to become wealthy. You can't "fix" this problem, it will naturally happen EVEN if you evenly divided ALL wealth on the planet! Immediately, those who are motivated to earn wealth will again go to work earning more wealth than a person who has the exact same resources but less motivation. Within a short time, you again have people with more than others, and pulling away. The ONLY way to prevent this, is to prevent people from success. In other words, our two options here, are for the rich to get richer while the poor lag behind... or for everyone to have an empty and waiting soup bowl. I like MY option better! Sorry!

It's you who does not get it. I'm not talking about equal material things or wealth or health care or equal anything. I'm talking about basics. That's not utopia.

Other countries have universal health care. Poorer countries where the citizens enjoy the same longevity as in the US. If those countries can accomplish that then the US can.

Recall Ronald Dumsfeld's remarks, "War was an option we could afford." If a country can afford to go to war it can afford to do a hell of a lot for the citizens. Let's start there.
 
It's you who does not get it. I'm not talking about equal material things or wealth or health care or equal anything. I'm talking about basics. That's not utopia.

Other countries have universal health care. Poorer countries where the citizens enjoy the same longevity as in the US. If those countries can accomplish that then the US can.

Recall Ronald Dumsfeld's remarks, "War was an option we could afford." If a country can afford to go to war it can afford to do a hell of a lot for the citizens. Let's start there.


Universal health care is a boondoggle that will never work, and here is a good explanation as to why....Consider California.


The Wall Street Journal has an interesting piece on the failure of California’s attempt at universal health care and what it means for the rest of the nation. It is interesting to see how many of these plans have failed to pass or ended up being scrapped due to cost overruns. If universal health care was such a great thing and so economically compelling, it’s hard to see why so many states would be having such a hard time making it work. The reason why is simple: universal health care doesn’t actually work in the real world:

Like collapses in Illinois, Wisconsin and Pennsylvania, this one crumpled because of the costs, which are always much higher than anticipated. The truth teller was state Senate President Pro Tem Don Perata, who thought to ask about the price tag of a major new entitlement amid what’s already a $14.5 billion budget shortfall.

An independent analysis confirmed the plan would be far more expensive than proponents admitted. Even under the most favorable assumptions, spending would outpace revenue by $354 million after two years, and likely $3.9 billion or more. “A situation that I thought was bad,” Mr. Perata noted, “in fact was worse.”

This reveals that liberal health-care politics is increasingly the art of the impossible: You can’t make coverage “universal” while at the same time keeping costs in check — at least without prohibitive tax increases. Lowering cost and increasing access, in other words, are separate and irreconcilable issues.

Universal health care has a basic and fatal flaw, you can’t simultaneously reduce the cost of a service and increase access to it. If you have universal access, you have to find a way of paying for people to get that access, which raises costs. If you want to keep costs down you can only economize so far before you have to restrict access. Universal health care is a bit like a perpetual motion machine—it would be wonderful in theory, but it can’t actually exist in reality.

What inevitably ends up happening is that governments cut costs first—which requires them to cut off access. This is how Britain’s NHS and the Canadian system work. You end up either waiting in line or having a government bureaucrat deny your request for treatment. That’s why the healthcare systems in those countries are having such trouble managing costs without drastically cutting back on services—and why both are more and more turning to private agencies to provide services they cannot.

The failure of the California plan isn’t a shock—people support universal health care in theory, but when confronted with the fact that there’s no such thing as “free” health care most people balk at the price. A further sign that the support for universal care is theoretical comes from evidence that most Americans are satisfied with their current health care coverage. When confronted with a plan that forces people to change their coverage—and not necessarily for the better—it’s not surprising that the theoretical support for universal coverage ends up losing to the desire not to lose what people already have.

Universal health care is not the only solution, and already there are better solutions out there. In fact, of all the possible solutions, universal health care is almost certainly the least advantageous. Corporations love it because it passes on the costs to the federal government—turning it into a corporate welfare transfer payment. Bureaucrats love it because it gives them more power, as it would with politicians. However, it’s hard to see where the groundswell of demand for universal health care really is. If there was such a groundswell, a liberal state like California wouldn’t be balking at the price.

The failure of California’s initiative demonstrates why universal health care simply doesn’t work. The laws of economics and human behavior go against it, and those factors can’t be legislated away.

http://jayreding.com/archives/2008/01/30/why-universal-health-care-keeps-failing/
 
Is this the liberal view of what we deserve here?

Despite outgoing Russian President Vladimir Putin's doubling of state spending on health care over the past two years, complaints about crumbling infrastructure, poor quality of medical services, and overall mismanagement of the government's so-called universal health care program have been on the rise.

The Russian Federal Assembly is currently considering different options to improve the state-run system, but analysts say the system can't be improved without opening it up to market influences.

Article 41 of the Russian Constitution directs the Russian government to fund a federal health care system and guarantees its people the right to health care and medical assistance "free of charge." Understaffed hospitals, inadequate equipment, and widespread corruption have left millions of Russians without quality health care.



Awful Facilities

Depending on local economic conditions, health care quality varies considerably among Russia's 88 administrative regions. Many state-run hospitals, particularly in remote areas, do not have hot water, and some do not have running water at all. Even the most basic medicines are often in limited supply.

"Health care is far too important to leave to politicians--be they autocrats or democrats," said John R. Graham, director of health care studies at the Pacific Research Institute.

"The Russian 'free health care for all' system is nothing of the sort," said Jeff Emanuel, research fellow for health care policy at The Heartland Institute and managing editor of Health Care News. "Instead, it is simply another program built on governmental taking of taxpayer funds and mismanagement of the services it promises to provide.


"The result is millions of people pay into the system through their taxes, but when they need care they are stranded without the basic medical services their taxes are paying for," Emanuel added.



Rampant Corruption

Research conducted by Moscow's INDEM think tank in 2004 showed Russians spent some $600 million each year on under-the-counter payments to health care providers. The Russian Academy of Sciences' Open Health Institute more recently estimated rampant corruption siphons off as much as 35 percent of the money spent on health care nationwide annually.

Low wages are another problem. Yearly salaries of physicians average $5,160 to $6,120, while nurses average $2,760 to $3,780. This often results in underpaid physicians accepting bribes for higher-quality care.

http://news.heartland.org/newspaper...ealth-care-program-exposes-perils-single-paye
 
It's you who does not get it. I'm not talking about equal material things or wealth or health care or equal anything. I'm talking about basics. That's not utopia.

Even basics! You're never going to realize a system that provides basics and adequately fixes the problem. There will always be some who aren't included, some who don't get the help, some who refuse help given.

Other countries have universal health care. Poorer countries where the citizens enjoy the same longevity as in the US. If those countries can accomplish that then the US can.

Yes, and even in those countries, things are not equal... some have more than others... some get better health care... some suffer! Some die young, some die old, and longevity remains virtually the same regardless.

Recall Ronald Dumsfeld's remarks, "War was an option we could afford." If a country can afford to go to war it can afford to do a hell of a lot for the citizens. Let's start there.

Now you want to run over here and hold up the cost of the Iraq war, as some sort of justification for your insanity! The total cost of the Iraq war would fund Obamacare for about 6 months.
 
They don't...The improvements you see in today's world are largely modifications on existing products. Think about it...The 20th century saw the greatest advances spurred by free market demand than ever in history, now I know that the 21st century just started but what great advances are we striving for? i-Phone 5? Solar power? Wind? What's next, horse drawn carriages?

Give me a break.

Modifications on existing products? Sure, my cell phone is just like this only modified.
1698731-1398621694-l.gif
 
Well there was only one Edison and one Franklin, but there were thousands of people who invented things when we introduced the Industrial Revolution. And there have been countless thousands more since then, all the way up to now, where we have actual companies devoted to matching inventors with capitalists!

They have never NEEDED something to exist to invent... sometimes, the fact that something DOESN'T exist, is the inspiration FOR their invention!

Now, your point is... It's easier for some scientist to invent (develop) a pill in a proper lab which is built by the government and provided for him to do this... and I can see your point, and I can even agree to some extent, we do need to have some level of governmental funding into certain research in medicine. But why should government fund the invention of a pill to make men have multiple orgasms like women, when capitalists would be more than willing to do that? You see, in most cases, if the invention is a good idea, capitalists are all over it! That's kinda what they do!

The problem is, government. When you place government in between the inventor and the capitalist, and block their attempt to profit and succeed, you stifle their creative spirit in a way you can't even imagine. They just don't feel compelled to create shit anymore, and so they don't... and you're stuck. Because, without inventions and capitalists, you really don't have any source of income as a government. Governments don't have Jobs.

Two points to make. First, government isn't stopping anyone from inventing things and nobody owes taxes on something that hasn't been invented and sold so I'm not sure to what you're referring.

Second, and this is where a fundamental change has to take place, working simply to work and earn money is not efficient. Do you recall the "Pet Rock" era? (Excerpt) In April 1975, Dahl was in a bar (which is now Beauregard Vineyards Tasting room in Bonny Doon) listening to his friends complain about their pets. This gave him the idea for the perfect "pet": a rock. A rock would not need to be fed, walked, bathed, groomed and would not die, become sick, or be disobedient. He said they were to be the perfect pets, and joked about it with his friends. However, he eventually took the idea seriously, and drafted an "instruction manual" for a pet rock. It was full of puns, gags and plays on words that referred to the rock as an actual pet. The original had no eyes.(End) http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pet_Rock

The people gathering the rocks and the people processing them and the people selling them all made money to buy food and shelter. Did they contribute more to society than the unemployed person who volunteered at the local hospital?
 
Two points to make. First, government isn't stopping anyone from inventing things and nobody owes taxes on something that hasn't been invented and sold so I'm not sure to what you're referring.

No, government isn't stopping people from inventing things, they are stopping capitalists from making profits from it. Therefore, no motive exists to be creative and invent, there is nothing to be gained through capitalism. What's the point? This is why every large-scale socialist government has failed.

Second, and this is where a fundamental change has to take place, working simply to work and earn money is not efficient.

But your system believes you should work and your efforts contribute to the whole, there are no individual gains.

The problem with you is, the "fundamental changes" you want to make, will destroy the capitalist system. Once we are reliant on government, the people who comprise our government will quickly obtain all the wealth, and we won't have rich greedy corporations anymore, or middle class... we'll have peasants, and we'll have the ruling class. The ruling class will then tell us what we can expect, how far we can dream, and when we can shit. We will then have no means to argue, since we've given these people both the political AND financial power, and we are fucked until someone drops the paratroopers.... oh wait, that's always been US!

Do you recall the "Pet Rock" era? (Excerpt) In April 1975, Dahl was in a bar (which is now Beauregard Vineyards Tasting room in Bonny Doon) listening to his friends complain about their pets. This gave him the idea for the perfect "pet": a rock. A rock would not need to be fed, walked, bathed, groomed and would not die, become sick, or be disobedient. He said they were to be the perfect pets, and joked about it with his friends. However, he eventually took the idea seriously, and drafted an "instruction manual" for a pet rock. It was full of puns, gags and plays on words that referred to the rock as an actual pet. The original had no eyes.(End) http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pet_Rock

The people gathering the rocks and the people processing them and the people selling them all made money to buy food and shelter. Did they contribute more to society than the unemployed person who volunteered at the local hospital?

Capitalist enterprise isn't always about contributing to society. It is about providing society with what society's consumers demand. If no one had purchased "pet rocks" then the capitalist idea would have failed, and never gotten a wiki page... that happens every day in the real world. What open free enterprise offers, is the chance for someone like Dahl to take an idea and run with it, take a chance and see what happens... and just maybe, find that lucky star! What would have happened to his idea in 1975, if he had been confronted by a long list of EPA regulations regarding the transport, handling, packaging, and marketing, of "mineral compounds" ...violating sub-section 4 of article III in the regulatory code enacted by Congress in their omnibus bill? Well... he probably would have said, "what's the point?" And that would have been all she wrote... all of those people who had jobs for a while, would have never had those jobs, Dahl would have never gotten rich, and the money spent on pet rocks would have been spent on a Tony Orlando 8-track! How was society benefited by this?

Our society is special in the US. American Exceptionalism is more than a silly misunderstood bit of egotistical nationalism. We have a unique foundation and fundamental basis established on FREEDOM and LIBERTY. Not only do we protect this right, we maintain it is inalienable and inherent in all men. This means we have the right to invent and create and engage in capitalism through a free and open market of ideas and commercial trade. It means we believe this right exists regardless of our government, and that our government is NOT ENTITLED to infringe on these inalienable rights. Through THIS belief, we have emerged from the world's youngest nation, to the greatest superpower in every aspect, the world has ever known. It's no fluke, and we endured some tough times along the way, but the results speak for themselves, the capitalist free-market free enterprise system worked and worked beautifully through the 20th Century.
 
http://www.sec.gov/news/press/2007/2007-190.htm



SEC Votes for Final Rules Defining How Banks Can Be Securities Brokers
Eight Years After Passage of the Gramm-Leach-Bliley Act, Key Provisions Will Now Be Implemented
FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE
2007-190
Washington, D.C., Sept. 19, 2007 - Ending eight years of stalled negotiations and impasse, the Commission today voted to adopt, jointly with the Board of Governors of the Federal Reserve System (Board), new rules that will finally implement the bank broker provisions of the Gramm-Leach-Bliley Act of 1999. The Board will consider these final rules at its Sept. 24, 2007 meeting. The Commission and the Board consulted with and sought the concurrence of the Office of the Comptroller of the Currency, Federal Deposit Insurance Corporation, and Office of Thrift Supervision.




please explain what this SEC release means and its impact on our economy?
 
No, government isn't stopping people from inventing things, they are stopping capitalists from making profits from it. Therefore, no motive exists to be creative and invent, there is nothing to be gained through capitalism. What's the point? This is why every large-scale socialist government has failed.



But your system believes you should work and your efforts contribute to the whole, there are no individual gains.

The problem with you is, the "fundamental changes" you want to make, will destroy the capitalist system. Once we are reliant on government, the people who comprise our government will quickly obtain all the wealth, and we won't have rich greedy corporations anymore, or middle class... we'll have peasants, and we'll have the ruling class. The ruling class will then tell us what we can expect, how far we can dream, and when we can shit. We will then have no means to argue, since we've given these people both the political AND financial power, and we are fucked until someone drops the paratroopers.... oh wait, that's always been US!



Capitalist enterprise isn't always about contributing to society. It is about providing society with what society's consumers demand. If no one had purchased "pet rocks" then the capitalist idea would have failed, and never gotten a wiki page... that happens every day in the real world. What open free enterprise offers, is the chance for someone like Dahl to take an idea and run with it, take a chance and see what happens... and just maybe, find that lucky star! What would have happened to his idea in 1975, if he had been confronted by a long list of EPA regulations regarding the transport, handling, packaging, and marketing, of "mineral compounds" ...violating sub-section 4 of article III in the regulatory code enacted by Congress in their omnibus bill? Well... he probably would have said, "what's the point?" And that would have been all she wrote... all of those people who had jobs for a while, would have never had those jobs, Dahl would have never gotten rich, and the money spent on pet rocks would have been spent on a Tony Orlando 8-track! How was society benefited by this?

Our society is special in the US. American Exceptionalism is more than a silly misunderstood bit of egotistical nationalism. We have a unique foundation and fundamental basis established on FREEDOM and LIBERTY. Not only do we protect this right, we maintain it is inalienable and inherent in all men. This means we have the right to invent and create and engage in capitalism through a free and open market of ideas and commercial trade. It means we believe this right exists regardless of our government, and that our government is NOT ENTITLED to infringe on these inalienable rights. Through THIS belief, we have emerged from the world's youngest nation, to the greatest superpower in every aspect, the world has ever known. It's no fluke, and we endured some tough times along the way, but the results speak for themselves, the capitalist free-market free enterprise system worked and worked beautifully through the 20th Century.

Isn't it sad that profit seems to be the only motivation for some people, not for the betterment of society, not for the act of creating something itself.

Greed really is ruining us as a species.
 
Isn't it sad that profit seems to be the only motivation for some people, not for the betterment of society, not for the act of creating something itself.

Greed really is ruining us as a species.

That is such an ignorant quote. Of course profit is the only motivation for EVERYONE, including you. You work to get paid. You expend effort. The money you earn is your PROFIT. There is only one reason to start a business and that is profit.

Since you and OWEdummyfucker think it is so fucking easy to start a business because all you need is roads, cops and teachers, then go fucking do it for the "betterment of society".

I would expect such naive bullshit talk from a 7th grader, but not a grown up.
 
That is such an ignorant quote. Of course profit is the only motivation for EVERYONE, including you. You work to get paid. You expend effort. The money you earn is your PROFIT. There is only one reason to start a business and that is profit.

Since you and OWEdummyfucker think it is so fucking easy to start a business because all you need is roads, cops and teachers, then go fucking do it for the "betterment of society".

I would expect such naive bullshit talk from a 7th grader, but not a grown up.




studies show that about 4 people in 100 are sociopaths.


3 men and 1 woman is the study results.


That means we live amoung quite a few sociopaths.

Now not all sociopaths are evil but none of them have human emotions and none of them have compassion that comes from human emotion.


The time normal people spend thinking about their relationships and processing their emotion is free to these people to plan how to get what they want.


An unfettered caplitalistic society gives these people a HUGE advantage in the game.

they dont have to spend one second thinking about wether any move they make may hurt another human being.



They can just plan how to get what they want.


Many business owners come acrossed a point when they can get more money IF they ignore the impact of the decision on other human beings.


feeling humans will often balk at such a choice and Not harm the humans involved and take the less money.


What an unfettered market does is give the sociopaths a great edge.
 
studies show that about 4 people in 100 are sociopaths.


3 men and 1 woman is the study results.


That means we live amoung quite a few sociopaths.

Now not all sociopaths are evil but none of them have human emotions and none of them have compassion that comes from human emotion.


The time normal people spend thinking about their relationships and processing their emotion is free to these people to plan how to get what they want.


An unfettered caplitalistic society gives these people a HUGE advantage in the game.

they dont have to spend one second thinking about wether any move they make may hurt another human being.



They can just plan how to get what they want.


Many business owners come acrossed a point when they can get more money IF they ignore the impact of the decision on other human beings.


feeling humans will often balk at such a choice and Not harm the humans involved and take the less money.


What an unfettered market does is give the sociopaths a great edge.

Again, more drivel born of complete ignorance. Now, I agree that there are complete sociopaths out there. I also agree that there are those who will try to get over on others and rip them off. However, you are missing one salient point. If they do, they won't be in business long. I have been ripped off by unscrupulous business people before, but I didn't go running to the gobblement to protect me from my decisions. You see, ultimately I still made the decision to business with that person. In a free market, nobody can MAKE you or COMPEL you do do business with them. If they lie or cheat, that is a different story, but you should do your due diligence. Now, there should be laws against people misrepresenting their products. I am not saying that there should not be ANY laws. Why is it libtardiots always thinks that is our solution?

I am saying that the free market will provide more prosperity and serve as a check and balance on fraud quicker and more efficiently than any gobblement agency. I have been proved right time and time again and I will give you two examples.

1) Enron - the SEC was put into place with tons of regulations to stop the kinds of fraud that Enron committed. Did the SEC take Enron down? Nope. Did one gobblement agency tasked with financial fraud take Enron down? Nope. The person that took Enron down was a lone trader who actually took the time to read their entire annual report and noticed that their statement of cash flows did not jive with their income statement. Remember, cash is king. Statement of cash flows are much harder books to cook than income statements. This lone trader started shorting Enron stock. This in turn started people to "wake up" and POOF their stock collapsed which is when the SEC and everyone else "JUMPED INTO ACTION". A day late and a dollar short as always.

2) The housing bubble was burst by a trader who saw that all of this fraudulent paper based on worthless loans was being amassed by the banks, so he shorted the housing market. It was an act of heresy because housing always goes up. But, he was right and made a killing. Did any of the gobblement agencies warn of an imminent housing bubble? Did any of the regulators? Fuck no.

I am not saying that people won't get screwed over in a free market. They get screwed over with the gobblement supposedly policing things. In fact, I would contend that all of these alphabet soup gobblement agencies give people a false sense of security which leads them to being ripped off even more than they would in a free market where they would be forced to be more skeptical knowing that some bureaucrat isn't "looking out for them"
 
this is the problem I see with liberals, somehow you think that you can just ram shit down the peoples throats whether they want it or not? That isn't how this country works.

Sure it's how the country works. Talk about ramming shit down ones throat there was more ramming with the Iraq war than even the average Repub could swallow. At least the citizens will benefit from ObamaCare.
 
Again, more drivel born of complete ignorance. Now, I agree that there are complete sociopaths out there. I also agree that there are those who will try to get over on others and rip them off. However, you are missing one salient point. If they do, they won't be in business long. I have been ripped off by unscrupulous business people before, but I didn't go running to the gobblement to protect me from my decisions. You see, ultimately I still made the decision to business with that person. In a free market, nobody can MAKE you or COMPEL you do do business with them. If they lie or cheat, that is a different story, but you should do your due diligence. Now, there should be laws against people misrepresenting their products. I am not saying that there should not be ANY laws. Why is it libtardiots always thinks that is our solution?

I am saying that the free market will provide more prosperity and serve as a check and balance on fraud quicker and more efficiently than any gobblement agency. I have been proved right time and time again and I will give you two examples.

1) Enron - the SEC was put into place with tons of regulations to stop the kinds of fraud that Enron committed. Did the SEC take Enron down? Nope. Did one gobblement agency tasked with financial fraud take Enron down? Nope. The person that took Enron down was a lone trader who actually took the time to read their entire annual report and noticed that their statement of cash flows did not jive with their income statement. Remember, cash is king. Statement of cash flows are much harder books to cook than income statements. This lone trader started shorting Enron stock. This in turn started people to "wake up" and POOF their stock collapsed which is when the SEC and everyone else "JUMPED INTO ACTION". A day late and a dollar short as always.

2) The housing bubble was burst by a trader who saw that all of this fraudulent paper based on worthless loans was being amassed by the banks, so he shorted the housing market. It was an act of heresy because housing always goes up. But, he was right and made a killing. Did any of the gobblement agencies warn of an imminent housing bubble? Did any of the regulators? Fuck no.

I am not saying that people won't get screwed over in a free market. They get screwed over with the gobblement supposedly policing things. In fact, I would contend that all of these alphabet soup gobblement agencies give people a false sense of security which leads them to being ripped off even more than they would in a free market where they would be forced to be more skeptical knowing that some bureaucrat isn't "looking out for them"




deregulation has screwed the people every time the right has talked us into it.



You agree there should be laws.


Now do you agree we as a people have a right to deside on which laws?
 
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