OH Boy! Pardoning himself?

C

Care4all

Junior Member
Contributor
Oh My God, Heaven Help us!

The House of Representatives passed their version of the intelligence bill that was in the news last week regarding interorgations/torture this afternoon.

This is the Bill that President Bush and a lot of Republicans like Senator McCain, and Senator Grahm and others finally came to a compromise with the whitehouse on....

Well, it turns out ...that whole stink that was going on about how and who should define torture, the President or Congress was a decoy....slight of hand....bait and switch...smoke and mirrors, or whatever the heck you want to call it...

Why? YOu may ask....

Guess what is hidden in the middle of the House Bill on this....?

Here's where the Oh, My God! comes in..... :)

Hidden in this bill is a pardon....oh yes...

Not just a pardon, but Retroactive Immunity back to September 11th, giving pardons to President Bush and his entire administration or anyone directed by him to do such crimes or break such laws and for any and ALL, WAR CRIMES they may be charged with....HOW MANY were there and what LAWS did he break?

Can you say total ARROGANCE?

Even President Nixon had Ford Pardon him....he didn't pardon himself backhandely through using crooked congressmen...the speaker, and others...

But President Bush and vice President Cheney had the Republican Leadership opf the house of Representative put this in to the very fine print of the bill.....

THIS IS OUTRAGEOUS!

I just heard this on the 24/7 News...I think it was cnn...

if this is true, then we ALL NEED TO SEND OUR Senators and Reps telling them to remove this IMMUNITY for the President and his staff....

From what they said, the President, after the supreme court said that the Geneva convention needed to be followed in a guantanimo case I believe, he is in fear of being charged with war crimes for past deeds that he or the vp ordered and others executed.
 
No suprise from me. It also give Bush the right to intrepret the Geneva convention rules. No suprise there either. A fine Republican machine. I want to know who the 40 some demoncrats that voted for the bill were. Limpberman was among them I'll bet.
 
I don't think they're actually in fear of that Care, because I doubt, and I believe they doubt, that anyone will ever get up the balls to actually hold them really accountable in a court of law.

But I figure they sat around and said, you know what? You never know what strange twists history takes, so let's just make sure it never happens.
 
Grind said:
cool.
Click to expand...


Yeah, it's cool Grind. Too bad the common grunts who are following their orders don't enjoy the same immunity.

But then, that's the Republican way.

Personal responsiblity for everybody...except rich white men.

And if you're not a rich white man, and I mean rich baby, and you vote for them?

You deserve what they give you.
 
Darla said:
Yeah, it's cool Grind. Too bad the common grunts who are following their orders don't enjoy the same immunity.

But then, that's the Republican way.

Personal responsiblity for everybody...except rich white men.

And if you're not a rich white man, and I mean rich baby, and you vote for them?

You deserve what they give you.
Click to expand...
Um,... Or anyone directed to...

They are also given this immunity if this report is accurate.
 
Darla said:
Damo, how can that be, when some have already been sentenced, and some are still up for murder?

Are they going to be released?
Click to expand...
If it were an actual pardon they would get released. I don't think that is what it is though.
 
Care4all said:
Oh My God, Heaven Help us!

The House of Representatives passed their version of the intelligence bill that was in the news last week regarding interorgations/torture this afternoon.

This is the Bill that President Bush and a lot of Republicans like Senator McCain, and Senator Grahm and others finally came to a compromise with the whitehouse on....

Well, it turns out ...that whole stink that was going on about how and who should define torture, the President or Congress was a decoy....slight of hand....bait and switch...smoke and mirrors, or whatever the heck you want to call it...

Why? YOu may ask....

Guess what is hidden in the middle of the House Bill on this....?

Here's where the Oh, My God! comes in..... :)

Hidden in this bill is a pardon....oh yes...

Not just a pardon, but Retroactive Immunity back to September 11th, giving pardons to President Bush and his entire administration or anyone directed by him to do such crimes or break such laws and for any and ALL, WAR CRIMES they may be charged with....HOW MANY were there and what LAWS did he break?

Can you say total ARROGANCE?

Even President Nixon had Ford Pardon him....he didn't pardon himself backhandely through using crooked congressmen...the speaker, and others...

But President Bush and vice President Cheney had the Republican Leadership opf the house of Representative put this in to the very fine print of the bill.....

THIS IS OUTRAGEOUS!

I just heard this on the 24/7 News...I think it was cnn...

if this is true, then we ALL NEED TO SEND OUR Senators and Reps telling them to remove this IMMUNITY for the President and his staff....

From what they said, the President, after the supreme court said that the Geneva convention needed to be followed in a guantanimo case I believe, he is in fear of being charged with war crimes for past deeds that he or the vp ordered and others executed.
Click to expand...


HOw could george bush be punished for using torture? He can be told to stop torturing, and that it is unconstitutional, but it is a government act and not a personal one. The government can stop itself but the people who create the policies for certain parts of the government aren't usually held accountable (unless it is, for instance, mass killings or something like that).
 
Yup, sneek it through before this election because after the election Bush's fate is sealed!
 
Watermark said:
HOw could george bush be punished for using torture? He can be told to stop torturing, and that it is unconstitutional, but it is a government act and not a personal one. The government can stop itself but the people who create the policies for certain parts of the government aren't usually held accountable (unless it is, for instance, mass killings or something like that).
Click to expand...

Where in the WORLD do you get this from Water....

The commander and chief is held responsible if the military was directed by him to do such....to break laws....whether it is torture or it is rendition or it is not giving hearings to combatants for years to determine their status....

why do you think he wants to slip this PARDON in here for himself? HE KNOWS he has broken our laws and he KNOWS he has broken International Laws which we are signatories to.....

He thought he could get the supreme court to side with him, but they did not.....thus pardoning himself....and his staff....

and I say BULLSHIT....if you and I and EVERYONE ELSE has to follow the Law then so does our president and his minions...PERIOD.

Care

President Bush/cheney sure appears to be the Man of Lawlessness that is spoken of in Revelation imo.
(Yes, maybe I am agreeing with chavez....;) )

Care
 
I'm still witholding judgement until I actually read the supposed legislation. I am not going on outrage alert over this until I have information.
 
here is a little bit on it, i am still searching for other articles on it that goes in to it like the 24/7 news did....

---------------------------------------------------
ACLU Urges Congress to Reject Bush Military Commissions Bill, "Compromise" Lacks Due Process, Undermines Torture and Abuse Safeguards (9/27/2006)


FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE
Contact: Media@dcaclu.org

WASHINGTON - As both chambers of Congress prepare to vote on legislation establishing a system of military commissions, the American Civil Liberties Union urged lawmakers to reject the proposal, noting that the measure does not protect due process, guts the protections of habeas corpus, fails to meet international treaty obligations and would give the president authority to undermine safeguards against horrific abuse of detainees.


"This bill is a drastic step backwards for human rights," said Caroline Fredrickson, Director of the ACLU Washington Legislative Office. "Such a dramatic sea change in the rule of law deserves more than an afternoon of hurried debate on the House and Senate floors. The proposal breaks a long tradition of American values, and will likely not stand up to the scrutiny of the Supreme Court. We urge both chambers of Congress to vote against this bill."


The bill gives the president license to undermine enforcement of the most basic human rights protections in Common Article 3 of the Geneva Conventions. Moreover, it would strip the courts of their historical and constitutional role as a check on the executive branch. As a result, the president would have new authority to decide much of the scope of authorized conduct and the severity of any punishment, giving him unparalleled power to unilaterally determine whether the federal government can carry out cruelty and abuse.


Also, the bill undermines America’s commitment to due process by allowing convictions on the basis of evidence that was literally beaten out of a witness or obtained through other abuse by either the federal government or other countries. Government officials who authorized or ordered illegal acts of torture and abuse would receive retroactive immunity for many of these acts, providing a "get out of jail free" card that is backdated nine years. Further, the bill fails to commit the government to consider violations of the McCain anti-torture amendment criminal acts under the War Crimes Act.


A recent addition to the bill expands who can be designated a so-called "enemy combatant." Anyone the president designates an enemy combatant could be arrested and detained without charge indefinitely and without access to the courts.


"At a time when the White House refuses to say whether vicious acts such as waterboarding would violate the bill, Congress is seeking to give a blank check to the president," said Christopher Anders, an ACLU Legislative Counsel. "Congress should not place any trust in an administration that triggered the torture scandal by trying to suspend the Geneva Conventions for detainees and then twisted the law to authorize illegal torture and abuse."




The ACLU’s letter on S. 3930, the Military Commissions Act of 2006, is up at: www.aclu.org/natsec/gen/26861leg20060925.html
 
If this is accurate this would easily be overturned by the SCOTUS. I seriously doubt this will become law.
 
I don't think it would be considered him pardoning himself, would it? It would be Congress that was pardoning him (and his administration) because they are the ones granting the pardon.

Is that legal?

Immie
 
It isn't a pardon it is immunity, and that is certainly legal. If that is what it says. So far I have the ACLU (definitely an interested party) and Care to go by. I prefer to read what it says so I can actually understand what the law actually does.
 
I agree with you Damo, lets see what it actually has to say. I don't consider the aclu or cnn as unbias sources.
 
Hidden in this bill is a pardon....oh yes...

Not just a pardon, but Retroactive Immunity back to September 11th, giving pardons to President Bush and his entire administration or anyone directed by him to do such crimes or break such laws and for any and ALL, WAR CRIMES they may be charged with....

If they are confindent they didn't commit any crimes, a pardon codified into legislation is unneccessary.
 
Yep like the old well if you did nothing wrong why worry about privacy mantra of the extreme right. somehow they do not take the same view when it is their butts though :)
 
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