Oh Lord, where Ark thou?

You present this study as if "intelligence" provides the things that are presented as showing intelligence.

Less conformity, more analytical and greater self control. I would argue that the opposite is true of most of the folks that are self identifying non-religious....

....95% of the universe, say our scientists, is comprised of Dark Matter and Dark Energy. Only the puny 5% of the Universe left over is what we can see or experience in any way.
You're free to argue that the Earth is flat, dude. Without facts, I'm unlikely to be persuaded by your argument.

Everyone on JPP is free to pull an opinion out of their ass and paste it all over the forum. Everyone else is free to dispute it with more assholish opinions, with simple facts or any combination of their choice.

Example: The Universe is thought to be 27% Dark Matter, 68% Dark Energy and the 5% you mentioned of the matter we know. While you are free to speculate that the unknown is filled with spirits, dragons, whatever, the fact remains no one knows. The NASA link below gives some prevailing theories, none of which include spooks or magical beings.

https://science.nasa.gov/astrophysics/focus-areas/what-is-dark-energy
But it is an important mystery. It turns out that roughly 68% of the universe is dark energy. Dark matter makes up about 27%. The rest - everything on Earth, everything ever observed with all of our instruments, all normal matter - adds up to less than 5% of the universe.
 
Don't say this stuff out loud in the typical fundie Xtian church. They'd agree with you about Nye, but burn you at the stake for the refusal to accept the Bible as the literal and infallible word of god.

Once upon a time in America there was no public conflict between science (particularly evolutionary science) and the Bible. Almost all Christians accepted the stories in the OT as allegory rather than as literal events. The evangelical RWers changed that, to the point where they *still* agitate to have creationism taught in public school science classes.

Just correct what seems to be a mistaken belief that you hold, my bother in law has voted Democrat in every election he could and will do so until he dies.

Since he's a dyed in the wool Democrat, he'll likely vote Democrat AFTER he's dead as well. Chicago voting records are the strongest evidence of life after death in this country. ;)

He is also a literal fundamentalist who strongly believes in and asserts with passion and zeal the literal and complete accuracy of Biblical Scripture.

People believe what they believe. I've discussed this sort of stuff with fundamentalist Christians, my brother in law being one, and they are really pretty understanding of what I'm saying.

The disagreement they express is more along the lines of serene understanding seeming to express that "the truth" is available, but I just haven't found it yet. The violence you predict is completely absent from their words, attitude and actions.

Why did you edit away so much of my thought on this?
 
Why did you edit away so much of my thought on this?

Brevity.

Your b.i.l. is an outlier then. Very few evangelicals vote for (D) candidates. Abortion is their biggest issue, trailing behind things like SSM, "forced acceptance" of LGBTQ ppl, legalized pot, and other things they see as sinful.
 
Some points of contention: you wrote, "...
Finally, we see a guy like "Bill Nye, the Science Guy", noted charlatan and moron, asserting that this parable is a scientific recounting of an actual event."

FYI: Nye has a B.S. in mechanical engineering from Cornell. He also has six honorary doctorate degrees, including Ph.D.s in science from Goucher College and Rensselaer Polytechnic Institute. He was on the team at the NASA and California Institute of Technology’s Jet Propulsion Laboratory to design and create the MarsDial, a sundial and camera calibrator attached to the Mars Exploration Rover. So he's not a theologian nor an archeologist by training. But despite his TV flamboyance, he's hardly as you described, and his simple analysis of the topic at hand could NOT be discarded or refuted.

And you must remember, the current acceptance is that Moses existed during the Bronze Age .... about the same time as it's believed the pyramids of Egypt were constructed.

But I agree with you regarding local phenomena being interpreted as a "world" event.

Bill Nye has credentials. I have no doubt about that.

His credentials don't make the stupid stuff he says any less stupid. He is a passionate advocate of AGW Science and AGW Science is shown repeatedly to be erroneous and vaguely misleading.

With regard to science, whether we are talking about the Stone Age or the Bronze Age, your average man on the street was not in possession of the sort of educational foundation that would allow critical review of modern day astrophysics.

Assuming that Moses was "told" the story of creation, it is likely that his understandings would have influenced the transcription of of whatever it was he may have been told.

Even assuming that Moses was among the most educated in Egypt, the level of understanding of the cosmos at that point in Egypt was as much religious as scientific.

Anyway, the point is that the Book of Genesis, to me is interesting in how much it got right even though it got a whole bunch wrong.

As I understand it, the brightest light ever produced was the light that occurred in the moments following the Big Bang. I could be wrong.

As I watch lecture series on TV now that I'm retired, it is interesting how much is coming to light that seemed to me to be impossible, and yet, it is what it is.

Water, as one example, was "locked" in rocks that formed in the cooling from a molten blob blob orbiting the Sun that became Earth. The land and the sea were LITERALLY one, but were separated by the processes that formed the planet.

The Earth rotates and the night and day occurred. Plants grew and producing oxygen and then animals and then us.

Imagine telling a fourth grader the entire story of the creation of life on Earth starting from the Big Bang and working forward. No written power points or notes allowed.

What would be the take aways understood by that fourth grader? How would t hat fourth grader describe what he heard?

If you ever watched Tim Taylor trying to relay what he heard Wilson telling him as he revealed his new understandings to his long suffering Friends and family, the possibility of inaccurate interpretation is well demonstrated.

However, being wrong on the exact details does not make the entire message worthless. Things can be less than exact, but still be directionally helpful.

 
You don't know how high the water was BEFORE the flood!
The Bible is inspired by the Holy Spirit, so it doesn't matter how primitive the people were,that God chose to tell his story thru.

Exactly. It was INSPIRED, not dictated and then transcribed.

Regarding the sea level, folks who seem to know do have a pretty good handle on what the sea level has been across the years.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Early_Holocene_sea_level_rise

Sea level seems to have risen by about 140 meters since the maximum glaciation about 20 or 30 thousand years ago. Interestingly, it seems to be stable or receding lately.

A 140 meter rise is around 450 feet. About the height of a 40 story building. This is about the height of a short skyscraper.

Geologists say that when Ice Dams broke during the end of the Northern Hemispere's Glaciation, massive floods occurred.

Assuming that devastation occurred in various places due to this flooding does not seem to be a great leap in thinking. Legends would certainly grow from the retelling of the disappearances of entire cities.
 
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Exactly. It was INSPIRED, not dictated and then transcribed.

Regarding the sea level, folks who seem to know do have a pretty good handle on what the sea level has been across the years.

Sea level change since the Last Glacial Maximum.
Agreed about science based monitoring of sea level changes.

https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S0012821X98001988
The eustatic component of relative sea-level change provides a measure of the amount of ice transferred between the continents and oceans during glacial cycles. This has been quantified for the period since the Last Glacial Maximum by correcting observed sea-level change for the glacio-hydro-isostatic contributions using realistic ice distribution and earth models. During the Last Glacial Maximum (LGM) the eustatic sea level was 125±5 m lower than the present day, equivalent to a land-based ice volume of (4.6–4.9)×107 km3. Evidence for a non-uniform rise in eustatic sea level from the LGM to the end of the deglaciation is examined. The initial rate of rise from ca. 21 to 17 ka was relatively slow with an average rate of ca. 6 m ka−1, followed by an average rate of ca. 10 m ka−1 for the next 10 ka. Significant departures from these average rates may have occurred at the time of the Younger Dryas and possibly also around 14 ka. Most of the decay of the large ice sheets was completed by 7 ka, but 3–5 m of water has been added to the oceans since that time.


https://www.antarcticglaciers.org/glaciers-and-climate/sea-level-rise-2/sea-level-rise/
Post-Glacial_Sea_Level_rise2.png
 
How would 40 days and 40 nights of rain,and the subterranean waters come forth effect sea levels?

Very little. It's not called a Water Cycle for nuthin'. LOL

Same for the 331 days of rain in Maui:
https://theconversation.com/whats-the-record-for-how-long-its-ever-rained-without-stopping-167869
In the U.S., the longest periods of daily rain have occurred in Hawaii, where easterly trade winds blow toward the mountains. An incredible 331 consecutive days of measurable rainfall were recorded at Manuawili Ranch, Maui, in 1939-40.

https://gpm.nasa.gov/education/water-cycle
Water-Cycle-Art2A_medium.png
 
Very little. It's not called a Water Cycle for nuthin'. LOL

Same for the 331 days of rain in Maui:
https://theconversation.com/whats-the-record-for-how-long-its-ever-rained-without-stopping-167869
In the U.S., the longest periods of daily rain have occurred in Hawaii, where easterly trade winds blow toward the mountains. An incredible 331 consecutive days of measurable rainfall were recorded at Manuawili Ranch, Maui, in 1939-40.

https://gpm.nasa.gov/education/water-cycle
Water-Cycle-Art2A_medium.png

Except! Ashes of a hydrogen fire is water,it's why water won't burn.
So what if a weapon was made that could set fire to hydrogen in the atmosphere.
You could creat more water raising sea levels along with subterranean waters being released.
And if the hydrogen fire burned 40 days,you would have 40 days of rain.
 
Except! Ashes of a hydrogen fire is water,it's why water won't burn.
So what if a weapon was made that could set fire to hydrogen in the atmosphere.
You could creat more water raising sea levels along with subterranean waters being released.
And if the hydrogen fire burned 40 days,you would have 40 days of rain.

Ummm....I'd have to see the science behind that idea. Why doesn't California use that idea to stop the drought?
 
I'm not sure, that's a good question.

Solar powered electricity can be used to separate the H from the O2 in urine resulting on pure hydrogen and pure Oxygen with the nitrates and other impurities considered waste. Adding a spark to the H and the O2, as you already know, creates pure H2O also resulting in heat energy.

Solar power is free power. Electrolysis takes energy. The US Space Program worked extensively with this tech.

https://airandspace.si.edu/collection-objects/fuel-cell-apollo/nasm_A19730934000
The Apollo Command Module's primary source of electric power was from a set of three "fuel cells" housed in the Service Module. Each fuel cell combines hydrogen and oxygen to produce electricity and water. The water was used for drinking by the astronaut crew. Each of the fuel cell power plants contain 31 separate cells connected in series. Each cell has hydrogen and an oxygen compartments and electrodes and in combination produce 27 to 31 volts. Normal power output for each power plant is 563 to 1420 watts, with a maximum of 2300 watts.
 
You don't know how high the water was BEFORE the flood!
The Bible is inspired by the Holy Spirit, so it doesn't matter how primitive the people were,that God chose to tell his story thru.

Ahh, but Nye is pointing to basic logic based on PHYSICAL EVIDENCE. Using the Bible as "proof" that everything contained is true is a matter of faith, NOT logic, and certainly not fact based logic.

Creationist and fundamentalists MUST REJECT facts and logic after a certain point in order to maintain faith.
 
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Quote Originally Posted by Cypress View Post
I am going to place greater weight on what the Jewish Rabbinic tradition says about it. Genesis is Jewish scripture and written by Jews, not by christians.

Obviously there wasn't any Christians before Jesus!
But there were prophesy of the coming of Jesus.

Yep, and there lies the rub because you have rabbinical scholars who point out that the messiah has yet to appear, according to the religious dictate of terms.

Back to square one; what does Nye state that is NOT logical or accurate?
 
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Quote Originally Posted by Taichiliberal View Post
Some points of contention: you wrote, "...
Finally, we see a guy like "Bill Nye, the Science Guy", noted charlatan and moron, asserting that this parable is a scientific recounting of an actual event."

FYI: Nye has a B.S. in mechanical engineering from Cornell. He also has six honorary doctorate degrees, including Ph.D.s in science from Goucher College and Rensselaer Polytechnic Institute. He was on the team at the NASA and California Institute of Technology’s Jet Propulsion Laboratory to design and create the MarsDial, a sundial and camera calibrator attached to the Mars Exploration Rover. So he's not a theologian nor an archeologist by training. But despite his TV flamboyance, he's hardly as you described, and his simple analysis of the topic at hand could NOT be discarded or refuted.

And you must remember, the current acceptance is that Moses existed during the Bronze Age .... about the same time as it's believed the pyramids of Egypt were constructed.

But I agree with you regarding local phenomena being interpreted as a "world" event.


Bill Nye has credentials. I have no doubt about that.

His credentials don't make the stupid stuff he says any less stupid. He is a passionate advocate of AGW Science and AGW Science is shown repeatedly to be erroneous and vaguely misleading.

With regard to science, whether we are talking about the Stone Age or the Bronze Age, your average man on the street was not in possession of the sort of educational foundation that would allow critical review of modern day astrophysics.

Assuming that Moses was "told" the story of creation, it is likely that his understandings would have influenced the transcription of of whatever it was he may have been told.

Even assuming that Moses was among the most educated in Egypt, the level of understanding of the cosmos at that point in Egypt was as much religious as scientific.

Anyway, the point is that the Book of Genesis, to me is interesting in how much it got right even though it got a whole bunch wrong.

As I understand it, the brightest light ever produced was the light that occurred in the moments following the Big Bang. I could be wrong.

As I watch lecture series on TV now that I'm retired, it is interesting how much is coming to light that seemed to me to be impossible, and yet, it is what it is.

Water, as one example, was "locked" in rocks that formed in the cooling from a molten blob blob orbiting the Sun that became Earth. The land and the sea were LITERALLY one, but were separated by the processes that formed the planet.

The Earth rotates and the night and day occurred. Plants grew and producing oxygen and then animals and then us.

Imagine telling a fourth grader the entire story of the creation of life on Earth starting from the Big Bang and working forward. No written power points or notes allowed.

What would be the take aways understood by that fourth grader? How would t hat fourth grader describe what he heard?

If you ever watched Tim Taylor trying to relay what he heard Wilson telling him as he revealed his new understandings to his long suffering Friends and family, the possibility of inaccurate interpretation is well demonstrated.

However, being wrong on the exact details does not make the entire message worthless. Things can be less than exact, but still be directionally helpful.



Okay, let's take this sentence for sentence:

1. But you DID doubt (with extreme prejudice) Nye's credentials when you called him a "noted charlatan and moron".

2. Let me put this side bar to rest: to say that over 230 years of increasing global deforestation, industrialization and its air/ground/sea pollution, urbanization on grand scales has no (or negligible) effect on the planet's eco-system is just illogical (or to put plainly, stupid). Too many bonafide scientists from various fields with more extensive credentials than Nye's concur. Industrial lobbies work long and hard on their propaganda to deny reality...and they are losing.

3. My good man, since you are taking a somewhat condescending attitude towards the common man, it should be noted that YOU incorrectly put Moses in the stone age, NOT the bronze age. Get an anthropologist to explain to you the extreme differences, especially when it comes to tool making and such. Once corrected, your original assertions change to a degree.

4. As you previously pointed out, the whole concept of divinely influenced scribes of the Bible is a dubious claim. Couple that with language, social and political changes in translations over the centuries and one can easily cast doubt beyond faith.

5. I suggest you do some research as to the accuracy of many of Egypt's endeavors...whether in science or medicine or mechanics or astronomy. Religion may have been the basis but constructing those pyramids sure as hell required some serious engineering genius by the human brain. There's nothing wrong with spirituality guiding scientific discovery and practices. Case in point, Chinese acupuncture. To date, Western and European medical science don't understand it, and condescendingly say it "tricks" the body into healing itself. Chinese doctors laugh their asses off at this desperate ploy to keep European based medicine as wholly superior.

6 - 10. An analogy that is off topic. At this point, I'm discussing how Nye deconstructs some major points regarding the "Great Flood" in the Bible. To date, no one on this thread .... including you ... can disprove or debunk what he says. My point of contention with you is that you dismissed Nye as some blathering phony, which is not the case. Just because you disagree with someone doesn't make them a fraud...you have to prove that they are. You can't, in this instance.

11 - 14. Essentially a rehash of what was covered in #1-5, video non-withstanding.
 
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