Oh oh,.......Biden caught on tape.

Tinkerpeach said:
No you don't have it straight.

The point is that you don't single out one person in a nation for corruption when there are other nations who are far more corrupt who you ignore unless there is a reason.

What was the reason Biden singled out this guy?
Click to expand...

You DO single out one person when the IMF, members of the EU and Ukrainian politicians themselves ASK for your help in removing him.

Show me when Mexico asked us for help with governmental corruption.

Show me when Afghanistan, Iraq or Nigeria asked us for help with governmental corruption.
 
ZappasGuitar said:
You DO single out one person when the IMF, members of the EU and Ukrainian politicians themselves ASK for your help in removing him.

Show me when Mexico asked us for help with governmental corruption.

Show me when Afghanistan, Iraq or Nigeria asked us for help with governmental corruption.
Click to expand...

Ask yourself why the Ukranian government needed help in firing a civilian?

God you folks are idiots.

Was this guy entitled to his job by some international law or something?
 
Tinkerpeach said:
Ask yourself why the Ukranian government needed help in firing a civilian?

God you folks are idiots.

Was this guy entitled to his job by some international law or something?
Click to expand...

Strange, I didn't think those questions were very difficult.

Only an idiot couldn't answer them.

Again...show me when Mexico asked us for help with governmental corruption.

Show me when Afghanistan, Iraq or Nigeria asked us for help with governmental corruption.
 
ZappasGuitar said:
That is your opinion.

In fact, there were several members of the Obama administration calling for Shokin's release, including prominent REPUBLICANS.

Sens. Rob Portman (R-OH), Ron Johnson (R-WI), and Mark Kirk (R-IL), along with several Democratic senators, called for Ukraine’s then-president to “press ahead with urgent reforms to the Prosecutor General’s office and judiciary.” Four days later, Shokin resigned.
Click to expand...

It is not my opinion. It is visible evidence from a video of Biden himself saying it. It is also fact that the person replacing Shokin, Yuriy Lutsenko, was infinitely more corrupt, completely unqualified--to the point the Ukrainian parliament had to change their laws just to let him serve--and clearly not going to do what was being called for by the US.

So, the question becomes, if Shokin was so bad, why did the US readily put up with a far worse replacement?

Shokin's firing didn't happen in a vacuum. Lutsenko replaced him. That counts too.
 
QP! said:
Yes just as Iraq worked exactly as the US white boarded it after Saddam was over thrown.


Just as Afghanistan did.

YOu are basement dweller level stupid. While the US and others have the power to over throw they can rarely control what comes after. The US has adventures all the Middle East and South America that have proven this but you, with Florida based history are completely unaware of any of it.

The country of Ukraine was full of rot after Putins control. You simply do not know, when you cut off one corrupt head, if the next person will choose to move onto a better path or if they will try to institute their own corrupt regime.

You really need to be less stupid and stay out of such talks.
Click to expand...

So, it didn't work in every case. It did work in some cases, contrary to the author of that article's claims.
 
T. A. Gardner said:
So, it didn't work in every case. It did work in some cases, contrary to the author of that article's claims.
Click to expand...

Get off Fox news and out of Florida history classes.

The documents WRITTEN by the GOP congress people, IMF and others have been linked and yet you won't read them because its not coming from Fox news.

These efforts PRECEEDED Biden. And VP do not go international and create policy solo as you think they do. They act on behalf of their POTUS and his admin.

Yes sometimes it works it out when the US and others push for a replacement and other times it does not.

What you do not do, is not get rid of a problem person because you cannot control it such that another bad person does not come in next.

A way worse MAGA idiot might rise to replace Trump, if he is thrown in jail. Someone as racist and hateful and greedy as he is who is actually intelligent.

We will still take our chances and get rid of Trump, given the chance.
 
QP! said:
A way worse MAGA idiot might rise to replace Trump, if he is thrown in jail. Someone as racist and hateful and greedy as he is who is actually intelligent.
Click to expand...

You mean Biden? I thought you liked Biden. Calling him a hateful, greedy, racist--which he is--is unexpected. On the other hand, Joke is truly a fucking moron who seemingly has very good luck getting elected...
 
T. A. Gardner said:
You mean Biden? I thought you liked Biden. Calling him a hateful, greedy, racist--which he is--is unexpected. On the other hand, Joke is truly a fucking moron who seemingly has very good luck getting elected...
Click to expand...

Oh Terry if that is your humor you should warn us first next time. Better yet just think before saying stuff and then choose not to.

Be smarter.
 
T. A. Gardner said:
4lcn6a.jpg
Click to expand...

Let's hold her back and let Whoopi do it on The View, then we'll really know it's over.
 
Tinkerpeach said:
No you don't have it straight.

The point is that you don't single out one person in a nation for corruption when there are other nations who are far more corrupt who you ignore unless there is a reason.

What was the reason Biden singled out this guy?
Click to expand...

Are you being deliberately obtuse? It has been explained that America and the EU were doing loan guarantees for Ukraine. No other country was involved. They did not want to drop a billion or 2 in the lap of Shokin. He is corrupt. They agreed that Shokin had to go for the guarantees to be done. This not difficult.
 
Nordberg said:
Are you being deliberately obtuse? It has been explained that America and the EU were doing loan guarantees for Ukraine. No other country was involved. They did not want to drop a billion or 2 in the lap of Shokin. He is corrupt. They agreed that Shokin had to go for the guarantees to be done. This not difficult.
Click to expand...

America and the EU do many loan guarantees for many countries yet they have never withheld it for a corrupt person from any government.
 
T. A. Gardner said:
It is not my opinion. It is visible evidence from a video of Biden himself saying it. It is also fact that the person replacing Shokin, Yuriy Lutsenko, was infinitely more corrupt, completely unqualified--to the point the Ukrainian parliament had to change their laws just to let him serve--and clearly not going to do what was being called for by the US.

So, the question becomes, if Shokin was so bad, why did the US readily put up with a far worse replacement?

Shokin's firing didn't happen in a vacuum. Lutsenko replaced him. That counts too.
Click to expand...

None of that changes the fact that, in 2016, several GOP Senators joined the Obama administration, not to mention the IMF and the EU, to call for Shokin to be removed.

The Ukraine asked for our help in removing a corrupt politician, we responded.
 
ZappasGuitar said:
None of that changes the fact that, in 2016, several GOP Senators joined the Obama administration, not to mention the IMF and the EU, to call for Shokin to be removed.

The Ukraine asked for our help in removing a corrupt politician, we responded.
Click to expand...

Okay, that's fine. But why did they not raise a fuss about his replacement?
 
T. A. Gardner said:
They didn't ask for help with Shokin either...
Click to expand...

Civil society organizations in Ukraine were pressing for his resignation. That, plus calls from the International Monetary Fund and other international organizations for his ouster ultimately resulted in his removal by Ukraine's parliament.

The Obama administration responded.
 
T. A. Gardner said:
They didn't ask for help with Shokin either...
Click to expand...

There was a push both from the inside Ukraine and outside to replace Shokin but that is not the point.

If Ukraine is asking the IMF and EU and USA and others for more access to Capital and other benefits of partnership, then they absolutely have a right to demand reforms and ask for anyone they identify as corrupt to be removed.

If you have a company asking the bank for a loan and they see your CFO has a prior fraud conviction they will demand he be fired as a condition of their consideration.

You are ignoring that and trying to say the IMF, EU and US and others should then have known the players in Ukraine well enough for them to pick the successor. That is dumb. You are dumb.

Ukraine was a country rife with corruption, and what reform pushes generally mean are putting pressure from the outside and top down, to make moves to pick people who are willing to CHANGE and move away from corruption. You hold the carrot and stick (more Capital vs no Capital) out and hope the leaders of the country can find those willing to move to the side of the reforms.

That is not something outsiders will be able to judge and not something they will want to judge, as they then own the blame if they pick wrong while those in power in the country are saying 'they were forced to take the IMF/US/EU person when they wanted to put in place someone else'.


If you make the decision for them, then you cannot hold them responsible for your mistakes. You need Ukraine to own their decisions and the mistakes and wins they get.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top