Oh the Irony. Abu Graib Prisoners want Americans back

[Damocles]

???
So you cant refer to the despicable actions of one without hitting all of a group.

So if I call dixie a worthless piecs of excrement I am referring to all humans ?
or if I say the Abu grabass soldiers that took part in the problems there I am talking about all the soldiers everywhere ?
No you are on the wrong track on this issue.

No, that isn't what I am saying. I am saying that if all you hear is the negative from any source then the source is likely to be propagandizing you. It is best to use more than sources that "agree" with you when gathering information.

If you actually don't believe that it is effecting to your mind to pay only passing mention when called out on it to the fact that most troops simply would never act that way, then I think you are lying to yourself.

 

[Damocles]

In other words, instead of stating, "The Army did this, and that is bad!" State, "These criminals did this and the Army punished their ass! Their actions are bad and hurt our efforts!"

 

[uscitizen]

In other words, instead of stating, "The Army did this, and that is bad!" State, "These criminals did this and the Army punished their ass! Their actions are bad and hurt our efforts!"

but then I think the army's efforts as a whole, is bad in Iraq.
Remember now I am an ex combat vet and have a bit more right to criticize the Army than armchair warriors.
THE ARMY and the individual troops are different things.
The army sucks in my opinion, but individual troops can be great people.
Just like I think the republican party sucks, but I know some good republicans.

 

[Damocles]

but then I think the army's efforts as a whole, is bad in Iraq.
Remember now I am an ex combat vet and have a bit more right to criticize the Army than armchair warriors.
THE ARMY and the individual troops are different things.
The army sucks in my opinion, but individual troops can be great people.
Just like I think the republican party sucks, but I know some good republicans.

I believe it to be opposite. As a whole the Army is full of great people who work to do good things in spite of sometimes contrary orders. I will not paint "most" or even a great amount of people in the Army to be bad people...

 

[uscitizen]

I believe it to be opposite. As a whole the Army is full of great people who work to do good things in spite of sometimes contrary orders. I will not paint "most" or even a great amount of people in the Army to be bad people...

Not the people ie grunts and such, but the army.
Umm sort of like I think religion sucks, but I know a lot of great people that go to church.

 

[Damocles]

Not the people ie grunts and such, but the army.
Umm sort of like I think religion sucks, but I know a lot of great people that go to church.

The Army is the sum total of the individuals that comprise it. They join because of that set of American values that are determined to be missing. Using your religion analogy, I will not trash the entire group of people for the actions of a few hypocrites...

 

[uscitizen]

The Army is the sum total of the individuals that comprise it. They join because of that set of American values that are determined to be missing. Using your religion analogy, I will not trash the entire group of people for the actions of a few hypocrites...

Yep pretty much. I guess I have a different viewpoint of the army since I was drafted for a war that did not threaten the USA, and we did not really as a country set out to win.
The all volunteer army of today is a different beast and it will have a higher percentage of nuts in it. People joining for the wrong reasons. Kinda like cop and prison guards that are in those jobs for the wrong reasons. ie people that like the power.

 

[Damocles]

Yep pretty much. I guess I have a different viewpoint of the army since I was drafted for a war that did not threaten the USA, and we did not really as a country set out to win.
The all volunteer army of today is a different beast and it will have a higher percentage of nuts in it. People joining for the wrong reasons. Kinda like cop and prison guards that are in those jobs for the wrong reasons. ie people that like the power.

A relatively "higher" percentage of an extremely rare commodity is commendable rather than condemnable. The people who join are good, attempting to say that Christianity is "bad" because you find a loud minority of hypocrites is not an accurate statement. Your opinion is bad, and that is easy to come by. One must practice at seeing more than what they want.

 

[uscitizen]

A relatively "higher" percentage of an extremely rare commodity is commendable rather than condemnable. The people who join are good, attempting to say that Christianity is "bad" because you find a loud minority of hypocrites is not an accurate statement. Your opinion is bad, and that is easy to come by. One must practice at seeing more than what they want.

I can't disagree with that Damo. That is why I support the troops but not the war and despise those who tarnish the image of the vast majority of the troops.
You do understand what I was trying to say about the minor group of those who join for the wrong reasons though don't ya ? And how the all volunteer army amplifies this a bit because with drafted troops you get a broader cross section of our society in there.

 

[Damocles]

I can't disagree with that Damo. That is why I support the troops but not the war and despise those who tarnish the image of the vast majority of the troops.
You do understand what I was trying to say about the minor group of those who join for the wrong reasons though don't ya ? And how the all volunteer army amplifies this a bit because with drafted troops you get a broader cross section of our society in there.

I do understand, and don't necessarily disagree. I am always impressed at the ethics and professionalism of the supermajority of the troops though.

I met some of the best people I know while I was in the Navy... So many more than when drafted also join for the right reasons.

 

[uscitizen]

Yes Damo, I agree with the supermajority. but remember how one bad apple....
I know it is not fair . but it is perception and that is what most people pay attention to. After all , all of us in Nam were not baby killers....

On the enlistment during the draft. I tried to get in the guard or CG and was laughed at unlike Bush for some strange reason....
A good friend of mine enlisted in the Navy to avoid nam and the army and wound up on a riverboat in the delta
I think we agree on this far more than we disagree.