On being a blank slate and "free will"

Jack said:
Hmmm ... ok. That is an interesting assertion. I think most of us accept the brain as the 'I'.
I've heard Scientologists think 'aliens' have come to Earth and have inhabited 'human animals' as their host.
So, is that your assertion? That humans have a 'Soul' or there is more than their physical body?
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Do most people think their brain is the I or do we feel like there is something else, something separate that maybe inside the brain, that is experiencing experiences, thinking thoughts, etc?

I'm not religious and certainly not scientologist!

I do not believe in a soul but if we had a soul, and you were unlucky enough to get the soul of a serial killer, that wouldn't seem to give you any more free will, would it?
 
ZenMode said:
Do most people think their brain is the I or do we feel like there is something else, something separate that maybe inside the brain, that is experiencing experiences, thinking thoughts, etc?

I'm not religious and certainly not scientologist!

I do not believe in a soul but if we had a soul, and you were unlucky enough to get the soul of a serial killer, that wouldn't seem to give you any more free will, would it?
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you're dumb af.
 
Jack said:
(sigh) I'm not sure 'Totalitarians' have been discussed here.
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I've been discussing it all along.

the totalitarians don't want to acknowledge it.

but think about what it means to be so desperatelly against free will.
 
ZenMode said:
Do most people think their brain is the I or do we feel like there is something else, something separate that maybe inside the brain, that is experiencing experiences, thinking thoughts, etc?

I'm not religious and certainly not scientologist!

I do not believe in a soul but if we had a soul, and you were unlucky enough to get the soul of a serial killer, that wouldn't seem to give you any more free will, would it?
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Zen: "Do most people think their brain is the I ..."
Jack: I can't speak for all, but I think that is the accepted Theory.

Zen: "... or do we feel like there is something else ..."
Jack: The 'mystic-types' allude to that. Basically claiming there is a 'Higher Power'. (no one being able to prove this in any way)

Zen: "something separate that maybe inside the brain, that is experiencing experiences, thinking thoughts, etc?"
Jack: Could be. Any proof? Lots of 'Theories' around.

(if there is a 'Soul', it's probably uniquely yours)
 
Althea said:
Awesome. Beat your dog every time he comes when called, and let me know what happens.
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the dog will come because it needs the security of the pack (mostly that means food).
the alpha is not always nice but it remains the alpha unless the dog feels up for a challenge.
instinct, all instinct.
 
Celticguy said:
the dog will come because it needs the security of the pack (mostly that means food).
the alpha is not always nice but it remains the alpha unless the dog feels up for a challenge.
instinct, all instinct.
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Wrong. When you domesticate a dog, you become the alpha. When you beat your dog, they use reason (not instinct) to know that obeying a command brings a bad result.
 
Althea said:
Wrong. When you domesticate a dog, you become the alpha. When you beat your dog, they use reason (not instinct) to know that obeying a command brings a bad result.
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complying to avoid a beating is not using reason.

that's operant conditioning.

IS that how you need to be reasoned with?



Your mental illness is whats wrong with humanity.

consequence culture?
 
AssHatZombie said:
complying to avoid a beating is not using reason.

that's operant conditioning.

IS that how you need to be reasoned with?



Your mental illness is whats wrong with humanity.

consequence culture?
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Agreed it's operant conditioning, not reasoning.

Althea may be confusing the example of "the way to drive a dog crazy is to randomly beat them". They have no idea what to do and will try to run to save themselves. That's a reaction, not reasoning.
 
Dutch Uncle said:
Agreed it's operant conditioning, not reasoning.

Althea may be confusing the example of "the way to drive a dog crazy is to randomly beat them". They have no idea what to do and will try to run to save themselves. That's a reaction, not reasoning.
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Tiger mom syndrome.
 
AssHatZombie said:
Tiger mom syndrome.
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Disagreed. Strict disciplinarians have a clear goal. Sure, they tend to use negative reinforcement and punishment over positive reinforcement, but they have a goal of improving their progeny not harming them.

Sure, maybe some of their weaker progeny break under pressure and go nuts**, but most will be in line with Nietzsche's comment "what doesn't kill me, makes me stronger".


**Hawkeye10?
 
Dutch Uncle said:
Disagreed. Strict disciplinarians have a clear goal. Sure, they tend to use negative reinforcement and punishment over positive reinforcement, but they have a goal of improving their progeny not harming them.

Sure, maybe some of their weaker progeny break under pressure and go nuts**, but most will be in line with Nietzsche's comment "what doesn't kill me, makes me stronger".


**Hawkeye10?
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Child abuse.
 
AssHatZombie said:
Child abuse.
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Why does your culture consider raising a child to study hard, play hard and work hard to be child abuse?

https://www.apadivisions.org/divisi...letters/developmental/2013/07/tiger-parenting
Tiger parenting is a little different than authoritarian parenting in that tiger parenting includes high levels of negative parenting (e.g., strict rules) and high levels of positive parenting (e.g., warmth and support). Scholarly research on “tiger parenting” began after the publication of Amy Chua's book in which the concept of tiger parenting was introduced. In March 2013, the Asian American Journal of Psychology, one of the American Psychological Association's journals, published a collection of six empirical papers and two commentaries – using samples of Hmong, Chinese, and Korean American parents all aimed at testing the new theory of “tiger parenting.” The goal was to use scientific methods to test whether tiger parenting is a common parenting style in Asian families, and to test whether tiger parenting leads to positive outcomes for children. Overall, these studies showed that parenting in each of these cultures is a mix of power-assertive type parenting and supportive parenting...

...we find that supportive parenting always comes out on top: parents who scored high on the positive parenting dimensions and low on the negative parenting dimensions had the most well-adjusted, successful children. Thus, we encourage parents to consider using supportive parenting techniques.

Being warm, using reasoning and explanation when disciplining children, allowing children to be independent when appropriate, and monitoring children's whereabouts and activities are all good parenting strategies. Parents should also ensure that they minimize shouting or yelling at their children, shaming their children by comparing them to other children, expecting unquestioned obedience from their children, and blaming their children or bringing up past mistakes.
 
Dutch Uncle said:
Why does your culture consider raising a child to study hard, play hard and work hard to be child abuse?

https://www.apadivisions.org/divisi...letters/developmental/2013/07/tiger-parenting
Tiger parenting is a little different than authoritarian parenting in that tiger parenting includes high levels of negative parenting (e.g., strict rules) and high levels of positive parenting (e.g., warmth and support). Scholarly research on “tiger parenting” began after the publication of Amy Chua's book in which the concept of tiger parenting was introduced. In March 2013, the Asian American Journal of Psychology, one of the American Psychological Association's journals, published a collection of six empirical papers and two commentaries – using samples of Hmong, Chinese, and Korean American parents all aimed at testing the new theory of “tiger parenting.” The goal was to use scientific methods to test whether tiger parenting is a common parenting style in Asian families, and to test whether tiger parenting leads to positive outcomes for children. Overall, these studies showed that parenting in each of these cultures is a mix of power-assertive type parenting and supportive parenting...

...we find that supportive parenting always comes out on top: parents who scored high on the positive parenting dimensions and low on the negative parenting dimensions had the most well-adjusted, successful children. Thus, we encourage parents to consider using supportive parenting techniques.

Being warm, using reasoning and explanation when disciplining children, allowing children to be independent when appropriate, and monitoring children's whereabouts and activities are all good parenting strategies. Parents should also ensure that they minimize shouting or yelling at their children, shaming their children by comparing them to other children, expecting unquestioned obedience from their children, and blaming their children or bringing up past mistakes.
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they don't minimize those things they claim. they shame and abuse, and expect unquestioning obedience.
 
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