"Open borders"

[Jack]

Like why the hell would that have happened? 110,000 Arabs immigrated from 1870-1924, mostly during the period of open immigration before WWI. Did their immigration in any way resemble the fantasy you just dreamt up?

Like how the hell would that even happen? They hop on a ship in Acre with all their worldly goods and possessions, sail across the ocean with their families to New York, immediately find the nearest marauding group of Arabs, and join in?

Ahhh, ... the Days of Innocence. It was wonderful back then.

News Flash: America is under attack. No ... it won't be by tanks and warships, it will be by asymmetrical warfare.
Russia, China, North Korea, Iran, and other countries and groups have plans for America, and it's not in our best interest to just let anybody walk through the front door.

We already let Chinese and Russian pregnant women come here, have babies to get American citizenship, then fly back home. What's up with THAT?

 

[Jack]

There is not that much demand for immigration to the US in China.

I don't know what immigration levels would be after we adopted a visaless policy. The free market would decide ultimately. But the right vastly overestimates peoples desire to immigrate here in general, many are satisfied with life in their homeland and don't want to leave.

1. Do you want the US to be as crowded os India?
2. Well off people don't leave their Homeland, desperate people do.
3. In the 21st century, in the technology age, how many basket-weavers do you want to import?
4. When the UBI (Universal Basic Income) is established, will you be one of the crybabies that don't want to give government money to the Newcomers?

 

[BRUTALITOPS]

Only make benefits open to those who qualify for permanent residency. You can control the qualifications for permanent residency to ensure those that aren't self-sustaining don't get it.

i'd be perfectly fine with that

 

[Jack]

Apartheid?

We don't need no more fucking people. Automation, Robotics, Artificial Intelligence is the Future. A Universal Basic Income will have to be established to maintain the 'excess people', either that or more 'for-profit' Prisons will be built to house the excess population.

If you know what the Future holds, ... why would you fuck it up by importing a zillion basket weavers?

 

[Mott the Hoople]

i'd be perfectly fine with that

Well that’s pretty much the way it already is.

 

[BRUTALITOPS]

Well that’s pretty much the way it already is.

no it's not, illegals for example can get childcare welfare. also they go to our emergency rooms which fucks taxpayers. they will no doubt be covered by obamacare in the future. you think the liberals will sit on that when poor little juan is dying from a brain tumor?

 

[Mott the Hoople]

no it's not, illegals for example can get childcare welfare. also they go to our emergency rooms which fucks taxpayers. they will no doubt be covered by obamacare in the future. you think the liberals will sit on that when poor little juan is dying from a brain tumor?

Oh dear god heaven help us that we should show compassion to anyone that's a human being.

Grind you don't know fuck shit what you're talking about. We're not talking about illegal alieans. We're talking about legal visa applicants and recipients. I've been through the Visa process at multiple levels, not just Green Card, and one of the first things they evaluate before issuing a visa is if the applicant is either self supporting or has a sponsor that will support them. If you don't meet that criteria, and a whole shit load of times even when you do, your visa application is rejected.

 

[BRUTALITOPS]

Oh dear god heaven help us that we should show compassion to anyone that's a human being.

see you couldn't even help yourself. you already betrayed the game plan.

I said 3rd world proles could come here if they dont take my money. you said that's what we already do. then one post later who couldn't help yourself but reveal you'll eventually want to give healthcare to 11 million illegals. you are like the camel poking his head into the tent.

Grind you don't know fuck shit what you're talking about. We're not talking about illegal alieans. We're talking about legal visa applicants and recipients.

who the fuck is we? watermark and I were having a conversation before you stuck your derpy face in. I'M talking about illegals, so shut the fuck up.

I've been through the Visa process at multiple levels, not just Green Card, and one of the first things they evaluate before issuing a visa is if the applicant is either self supporting or has a sponsor that will support them. If you don't meet that criteria, and a whole shit load of times even when you do, your visa application is rejected.

yeah that's what happens when you apply legally. not when you swim over the rio grande and live anon in the country.

 

[Jack]

Oh dear god heaven help us that we should show compassion to anyone that's a human being.

Grind you don't know fuck shit what you're talking about. We're not talking about illegal alieans. We're talking about legal visa applicants and recipients. I've been through the Visa process at multiple levels, not just Green Card, and one of the first things they evaluate before issuing a visa is if the applicant is either self supporting or has a sponsor that will support them. If you don't meet that criteria, and a whole shit load of times even when you do, your visa application is rejected.

Apartheid.
We could have an Apartheid system.
There could be one set of Laws for the REAL Americans.
And then there could be another set of Laws for the 'Untouchables', ... the ones that actually do the Work.

Is that what we are talking here?

 

[Mott the Hoople]

Apartheid.
We could have an Apartheid system.
There could be one set of Laws for the REAL Americans.
And then there could be another set of Laws for the 'Untouchables', ... the ones that actually do the Work.

Is that what we are talking here?

That wouldn't be fair to millennials. They might have to get a job and move our of their parents basement. Watermark still hasn't recovered from that trauma.

 

[Jack]

That wouldn't be fair to millennials. They might have to get a job and move our of their parents basement. Watermark still hasn't recovered from that trauma.

I think the Republican Plan is to import 'Third World Workers' (displacing American Workers) for certain jobs for certain lengths of time with zero benefits.
By eliminating the dozens of Benefits from SS to Unemployment to Workers Compensation, the Employers will increase Profits for Shareholders, which is the idea, right.
The only 'Losers' will be American Workers.

 

[Mott the Hoople]

I think the Republican Plan is to import 'Third World Workers' (displacing American Workers) for certain jobs for certain lengths of time with zero benefits.
By eliminating the dozens of Benefits from SS to Unemployment to Workers Compensation, the Employers will increase Profits for Shareholders, which is the idea, right.
The only 'Losers' will be American Workers.

One of these days this extreme fixation on short term profits is going to cause the working classes to pick up pitchforks and go after the political class.

 

[Jack]

One of these days this extreme fixation on short term profits is going to cause the working classes to pick up pitchforks and go after the political class with pitchforks.

Doubtful. The Slaves never win.

I think the Republican Plan is based on the 'Saudi Arabian Plan'. They bring in Foreign Workers to do certain jobs, like Construction.

So ... along with Automation, Robotics, Artificial Intelligence, ... you now will have a foreign workforce taking even MORE jobs from Americans.
Why does Watermark think bringing in MORE people is a good idea? What's his opposition to 'Closed Borders'?

 

[Fentoine Lum]

see you couldn't even help yourself. you already betrayed the game plan.

I said 3rd world proles could come here if they dont take my money. you said that's what we already do. then one post later who couldn't help yourself but reveal you'll eventually want to give healthcare to 11 million illegals. you are like the camel poking his head into the tent.

You're horribly confused as to who is taking your money.

 

[Fentoine Lum]

Doubtful. The Slaves never win.

I think the Republican Plan is based on the 'Saudi Arabian Plan'. They bring in Foreign Workers to do certain jobs, like Construction.

So ... along with Automation, Robotics, Artificial Intelligence, ... you now will have a foreign workforce taking even MORE jobs from Americans.
Why does Watermark think bringing in MORE people is a good idea? What's his opposition to 'Closed Borders'?

Given that we are willing to eagerly participate in genocide with the Wahabist Islamist beheading Saudis to maintain the status of the petro dollar, this should give little pause to our following the Saudis into authoritarian theocracy land.

 

[Mott the Hoople]

Doubtful. The Slaves never win.

I think the Republican Plan is based on the 'Saudi Arabian Plan'. They bring in Foreign Workers to do certain jobs, like Construction.

So ... along with Automation, Robotics, Artificial Intelligence, ... you now will have a foreign workforce taking even MORE jobs from Americans.
Why does Watermark think bringing in MORE people is a good idea? What's his opposition to 'Closed Borders'?

Same reason I do. It's an incredibly dumb idea that Politicians are cynically using to manipulate the emotions and resentments of, mainly, working class people who are unsophisticated about divide and conquer politics.

Besides the problem isn't at the border. That's not where most illegals are entering country. It's also been show quite well that when those who create the demand for cheap illegal alien labor are brought to task that demand drops rapidly and so does supply. Meaning illegal immigration declines rapidly.

E-verify proved that. That simple measure right there cut illegal immigration in half. Now if you add hefty fines and criminal penalties for hiring illegal aliens then you'd kill demand and with no demand, the supply goes away.

So what do closed borders accomplish? Little to anything. It's treating the symptom and not the problem. The only thing of significance closed borders does is that it makes some nutless wonders who live their lives in fear who have probably never known a latino to be able to pound their chest about what a faux bad ass they are.

To put it simply closed borders are bad business, bad politics and bad policy and is mainly proposed by politicians who are manipulating people they view as rubes.

 

[Jack]

Same reason I do. It's an incredibly dumb idea that Politicians are cynically using to manipulate the emotions and resentments of, mainly, working class people who are unsophisticated about divide and conquer politics.

Besides the problem isn't at the border. That's not where most illegals are entering country. It's also been show quite well that when those who create the demand for cheap illegal alien labor are brought to task that demand drops rapidly and so does supply. Meaning illegal immigration declines rapidly.

E-verify proved that. That simple measure right there cut illegal immigration in half. Now if you add hefty fines and criminal penalties for hiring illegal aliens then you'd kill demand and with no demand, the supply goes away.

So what do closed borders accomplish? Little to anything. It's treating the symptom and not the problem. The only thing of significance closed borders does is that it makes some nutless wonders who live their lives in fear who have probably never known a latino to be able to pound their chest about what a faux bad ass they are.

To put it simply closed borders are bad business, bad politics and bad policy and is mainly proposed by politicians who are manipulating people they view as rubes.

Mott: "Same reason I do. It's an incredibly dumb idea that Politicians are cynically using to manipulate the emotions and resentments of, mainly, working class people who are unsophisticated about divide and conquer politics."
Jack: The "unsophisticated working class" ... have/used to have, jobs being taken by immigrants. YOU and Watermark are SUPPORTING the 'divide and conquer' tactics used by the Ownership Class. They/YOU pit American "unsophisticated working class" AGAINST imported 'Third World Labor'. Is it ANY surprise the "unsophisticated working class" vote for demagogues like Trump? By NOT listening to your 'Brothers and Sisters', YOU are creating TrumpWorld.

Mott: "Besides the problem isn't at the border. That's not where most illegals are entering country. It's also been show quite well that when those who create the demand for cheap illegal alien labor are brought to task that demand drops rapidly and so does supply."
Jack: I agree with this. The Problem is, the Ownership Class controls the Government, Congress. The "those who create the demand for cheap illegal alien labor" are NEVER hung, shot, horse-whipped, or tar and feathered. The status quo is never addressed, it's always a 'lingering problem' ... DELIBERATELY.

Mott: "So what do closed borders accomplish?"
Jack: Zero MORE people. Put 'Americans' first.

Mott: "It's treating the symptom and not the problem."
Jack: The PROBLEM ... is the acceleration of Automation, Robotics, and Artificial Intelligence ... that displaces Humans. In 20 years, WE will NOT need MORE people. There will be TOO MANY people. WE will need LESS people. So ... if we can agree upon THAT ... NOW is the time to BEGIN to LESSEN the burden to be placed on our children.

Mott: "To put it simply closed borders are bad business, bad politics and bad policy and is mainly proposed by politicians who are manipulating people they view as rubes."
Jack: THAT ... is the prevailing view, the Politically Correct position, very 'in vogue' position to take. THAT is NOT my reasoning. I've tried to explain MY position on ZERO, legal or illegal, immigration with 'Technology' at the core of my argument. 'Machines' will take over more jobs being performed by Humans now. As more Humans become displaced by 'Machines' they will have to be supported by the general public in some manner. Which is the easier path, embrace the Future now and try and plan for it, or close your eyes and ignore it and maybe it will go away?

 

[Flash]

Why is a visaless immigration policy called "Open borders" and presented as something radical and without precedent? That is the manner of immigration throughout essentially all of human history up to WWI. In fact, visaless immigration should simply be called "Traditional immigration", and visa immigration policy should be called "Totalitarian entry policy and monitoring".

Why do states think they have some sort of right to shut their doors to individuals who've committed no crime, and sharply limit and monitor their stay in the country? Who ever thought that was a good idea? It is one of the worst artifacts of modern big government, that it's been allowed to establish these huge bureaucracies enable this insane and ahistoric policy.

How do you know if the people committed no crime without visas or some other kind of check on their background? What if they have a long record of criminal activity or terrorism?