Outlawing all abortions

[Socrtease]

If men got pregnant, there would be a law that required insurance to cover abortions and prenatal care.

 

[leaningright]

"Pro-life" is a misnomer.

For most who claim it, they are actually pro-UNBORN-life. Once born, you're on your own.

Not suggesting your mother of course, but most who claim to be pro-life are against any and every measure to help those children once born and are against any taxes for that purpose. Most are republican christian conservatives.

Love the stereotypical blanket statement not unlike those statements made by dano or some others about liberals. The church where I attend runs orphan's homes and encourages families to adopt or at least provide foster care for these kids too. Many of us do either one or both. We find that much more rewarding than bombing an abortion clinic.

 

[Cypress]

If men got pregnant, there would be a law that required insurance to cover abortions and prenatal care.

Yep.

And you better believe that if men were the child-bearing gender, at the very, very least the law would protect the right to abortion for rape, incest, or medically-neccessary reasons. None of this outright ban crap.

 

[Damocles]

Not that this site is a representative of the entire country, but it does hold to the truths that I've experienced in my lifetime and what can be seen by the number of orphaned children versus vocal anti-choicers: anti-choicers are all talk.

Pro-lifers are not "all talk" any more than others. Is there a reason that Consumer Reports shows that all the condoms given out by the abortion provider Planned Parenthood fail at a much higher rate than other condoms? (All except one that is).

http://www.consumerreports.org/cro/...ndoms-and-contraception-205/ratings/index.htm

 

[leaningright]

If you want to limit a right of a woman to choose, the very least you could do, would be to promote more access to contraception and healthcare, and broaden the base of people willing to adopt.

You vote (mostly) for a party that (largely) limits women's options in contraception, healthcare, and votes against gay partners right to adopt children.

Nice subtle "you need to allow gays to adopt then" spelled out clearly in the second paragraph. No way I will ever vote for a politician who even hints at promoting this. Both (abortion and gay adoption) are situations which require a moral decision and to agree to one to get the other defeats the purpose of all.

 

[Cancel7]

Nice subtle "you need to allow gays to adopt then" spelled out clearly in the second paragraph. No way I will ever vote for a politician who even hints at promoting this. Both (abortion and gay adoption) are situations which require a moral decision and to agree to one to get the other defeats the purpose of all.

What is it that you feel makes you a conservative democrat, and not a conservative republican?

Can you mention an issue, or belief, or policy?

 

[Socrtease]

Love the stereotypical blanket statement not unlike those statements made by dano or some others about liberals. The church where I attend runs orphan's homes and encourages families to adopt or at least provide foster care for these kids too. Many of us do either one or both. We find that much more rewarding than bombing an abortion clinic.

Wasn't a blanket statement. I saw the word MOST.

 

[Socrtease]

Pro-lifers are not "all talk" any more than others. Is there a reason that Consumer Reports shows that all the condoms given out by the abortion provider Planned Parenthood fail at a much higher rate than other condoms? (All except one that is).

http://www.consumerreports.org/cro/...ndoms-and-contraception-205/ratings/index.htm

Well if PP hadn't lost its federal funding they would not have to buy cheaper condoms. When I was in HS in the 80's PP carried NAME BRAND condoms including the lambskins that were for contraception only. I could have NEVER afforded those without PP.

Cause and effect Damo. elimiate funding for the largest provider of contraception in the country and the quality of their contraception is going to go down because economically they can't afford to buy the other stuff.

Now as for funding. What I have said and always will say is if PP and NARAL and all the other Pro-choice organizations had taken the money they have paid to lobbiests since the biological authoritarian perogative took effect under Reagan and continued since, and put it into the market, conservative investment would have yielded enough return to pay for the good condonms AND provide abortions for those that could not afford it.

 

[Cancel 2016.2]

"

"Most abortions are in this country are first trimester. There is No BRAIN that is even capable of conscious thought in the first 12 weeks of conception so you are quite correct when you say that they would not choose to be aborted because CHOICE IS IMPOSSIBLE at that point of their life. Those unborn children would not choose ANYTHING. "

No shit, but guess what... even after they develop brain activity, they are still unable to convey their choice. But please feel free to do a survey of those that were not aborted and see how many wish that their mothers had aborted them in the first trimester. My guess is not many would make that choice, so it is safe to assume that no child in the first trimester would choose to have their life taken away.

"What you biological authoritarians do is equate the blastocyst and first trimester fetus with a born child and then play on emotion. You try to pretend that every abortion is this painful ripping of limbs that the first trimester fetus feels until life signs expire. It is BULLSHIT emotionalism. "

Bullshit, I never stated that they were equally developed or anything remotely close to that. I stated that from conception, genetics shows that it is a unique human life. That is all. I never stated that conscious thought was present nor did I suggest that they can "feel" pain. That is a bogus strawman argument on your part.

"Personally, I think that viability is the cut off and that standared continues to move back. After the first 12 weeks a woman SHOULD have made the decision to have an abortion or not and after that I think that the viablity of the child should play a huge part in whether or not a woman can get an abortion. Late term abortions are rare and should be. I have heard a very few reasons a woman should ever have to abort in the last 12 weeks."

On this last part, we do agree to an extent. If abortions are to remain legal, the woman should have certainly made her choice in that time (again barring a situation that threatens her life developing).

 

[LadyT]

Love the stereotypical blanket statement not unlike those statements made by dano or some others about liberals. The church where I attend runs orphan's homes and encourages families to adopt or at least provide foster care for these kids too. Many of us do either one or both. We find that much more rewarding than bombing an abortion clinic.

Do you support laws that ban abortions?

 

[Damocles]

Well if PP hadn't lost its federal funding they would not have to buy cheaper condoms. When I was in HS in the 80's PP carried NAME BRAND condoms including the lambskins that were for contraception only. I could have NEVER afforded those without PP.

Cause and effect Damo. elimiate funding for the largest provider of contraception in the country and the quality of their contraception is going to go down because economically they can't afford to buy the other stuff.

Now as for funding. What I have said and always will say is if PP and NARAL and all the other Pro-choice organizations had taken the money they have paid to lobbiests since the biological authoritarian perogative took effect under Reagan and continued since, and put it into the market, conservative investment would have yielded enough return to pay for the good condonms AND provide abortions for those that could not afford it.

They lost none of their federal funding. They simply moved the funding over to areas that had nothing to do with abortion. In 2006 1/3 of their funding came from the government.

 

[Cancel 2016.2]

Not that this site is a representative of the entire country, but it does hold to the truths that I've experienced in my lifetime and what can be seen by the number of orphaned children versus vocal anti-choicers: anti-choicers are all talk.

http://www.girlsandboystown.org/home.asp

Just one of many private groups that try to help out. In your life, you may not have experienced people who try to help others without having the government do it for them... but they are out there and to act as if anti-abortion people do nothing is complete bullshit.

 

[Jarod]

Most devout Catholics I know live their lives in contradiction to the rules and are wrecked with guilt over it!

 

[LadyT]

http://www.girlsandboystown.org/home.asp

Just one of many private groups that try to help out. In your life, you may not have experienced people who try to help others without having the government do it for them... but they are out there and to act as if anti-abortion people do nothing is complete bull*&^%.

To deny the hypocrisy that is at hte core of the conversative political movement is complete BS:

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/21111931/

"Bush vetoes child health insurance plan"

http://topics-az.parenthood.com/articles.html?article_id=4747

"Earlier in the summer, however, congressional committees voted against an initial recommendation by President Bush to cut some $400 million from federal after-school funding. "

This while they parade on their high horses that abortions should be banned.

 

[leaningright]

What is it that you feel makes you a conservative democrat, and not a conservative republican?

Can you mention an issue, or belief, or policy?

Sure. I am a firm believer in government funding for public education. We have a government funded program in our state called Sooner Care which provided health care for underprivileged kids which I think is a great program and can be expanded. I was not happy with Bush for vetoing the health care bill that came through recently. I believe in lots of things that are in line with the democratic party. I am, however, a social conservative.

 

[Cancel7]

Sure. I am a firm believer in government funding for public education. We have a government funded program in our state called Sooner Care which provided health care for underprivileged kids which I think is a great program and can be expanded. I was not happy with Bush for vetoing the health care bill that came through recently. I believe in lots of things that are in line with the democratic party. I am, however, a social conservative.

Ok, thanks, I was trying to figure it out.

 

[Socrtease]

They lost none of their federal funding. They simply moved the funding over to areas that had nothing to do with abortion. In 2006 1/3 of their funding came from the government.

Well I stand corrected and with the size of the grants the receive they SHOULD be profiding name brand condoms, as well as Depo shots and every other contraception on the planet. What the fuck are they spending half a billion dollars a year on? (that is private and government funds.)

 

[Socrtease]

Interesting. I was looking at some Pro Biological Authoritarian sites and saw that they call abortion Child Murder. This goes back to what I said earlier. They equate a 12 week old fetus with a child. I never argue that a fetus is not human life, at it's most basic and mechanistic in the first 12 weeks of conception. But to equate it with a child is manipulation and intellectually dishonest and is done so only for the most base emotional reasons.

 

[Cancel 2016.2]

To deny the hypocrisy that is at hte core of the conversative political movement is complete BS:

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/21111931/

"Bush vetoes child health insurance plan"

http://topics-az.parenthood.com/articles.html?article_id=4747

"Earlier in the summer, however, congressional committees voted against an initial recommendation by President Bush to cut some $400 million from federal after-school funding. "

This while they parade on their high horses that abortions should be banned.

AGAIN.... to vote against the GOVERNMENT doing it does not mean that they are against anyone doing it. It is the liberal mindset that "well gee golly, if the government doesn't do it, no one will" crap that is your sticking point.

I point again to the example of boystown. It can be done privately. Many religious groups have adoption/foster care programs set up. Many conservatives (along with many liberals) both adopt and participate in foster care programs. To act as though they do not is ridiculous.

 

[Cancel 2016.2]

Interesting. I was looking at some Pro Biological Authoritarian sites and saw that they call abortion Child Murder. This goes back to what I said earlier. They equate a 12 week old fetus with a child. I never argue that a fetus is not human life, at it's most basic and mechanistic in the first 12 weeks of conception. But to equate it with a child is manipulation and intellectually dishonest and is done so only for the most base emotional reasons.

I do not doubt that their are extremists who share a similar view as I do. But we can find extremists in most any group.

Now if you want to debate whether the child is a "person" or is "viable" in the first trimester then that is fine. But a "child" is the offspring of parents. A child is a unique human life. The "fetus" is simply the early developmental stage of the child. A fetus is a child. That in and of itself does not change your argument on viability or whether or not the child has the ability to "think" or "feel". But techinically you are incorrect to say that a fetus is not a child.