Pakistan

[blackascoal]

Wow, another parrot. Assuming you know my positions on anything. I don't assume that anything from either party is the truth. But people like you seem to "know" what I thought or who I am based on what exactly?

If you would actually bother to read what I have written, I have tossed out several ideas that I was hoping would provoke discussion. Instead I ended up with a bunch of parrots chirping along to the "bush is evil" "you must be a neocon" crap.

But then you did say "sane" suggestion which implies that you too think the only sane response is to sit on the sideline. I assume you believe all of the following that I (or others) have suggested are "insane"....

1) Side with Musharraf and use this as an opportunity to go into Northern Pakistan and go after those that are hiding there.... most likely including Osama. If the people already do not like us, then that won't change.

2) Get the UN involved since the Pakistani people do not like us (according to so many of you) and thus would be more open to the UN ensuring the extremists do not get control of the nukes.

3) Try to find the location of the nukes and eliminate them, then pull back out

Exactly how many flawed and miserably failed military misadventures are required for you to recognize the utter and absolute failure of what you've just suggested?

Musharraf is already our puppet. Are you suggesting "side with him" in cracking down on dissidents? Have you any idea what the blowback from something as stupid as that would be?

Invading Northern Pakistan would ensure the demise of Musharraf and I'm betting .. make that knowing .. that Musharraf is not anxious to see US forces engaged in that blunder.

The UN is not anxious to jump in and save US ass, and there is no mandate for the UN taking control of Pakistan's nukes to sooth American jitters. It isn't just the Pakistani people who do not like us, planet earth does not like us, including members of the UN, NATO, the entire arab world, and even nations that used to be our friends.

If the US is going to piss it's pants about Pakistan it's going to have to engage in more of that unilateral cowboyism .. that is also doomed to failure.

Iraq
Iran
Turkey
The Kurds
Pakistan

All blowback from the last time the right-wing had a plan.

 

[blackascoal]

They do not have a populace that has supported and made clear threats on the US, nor do they have a group that may take over that promotes such actions. Methinks the threat from those who would do something against us is a bit more than those who we just "dislike."

And if you read the thread you would know that I think the corresponding chaos would pretty much doom their nuke to inoperation as they must be constantly cared for or they do not work. It isn't like I didn't actually post that. I asked you a question. I got baseless rhetoric based on assumptions that could not be reasonably built upon the post you attempt to excoriate me over.

I know for a fact I posted that directly, without any equivocation, or secret evasion of mind. So, either read my opinions, or quit assuming them. Then actually answer the question rather than assuming the answer you get in your mind leads to my opinion.

Your not liking my answer to your hypothetical is your problem.

Your question is filled with assumptions that you can't answer yourself.

How do you know there is credible intelligence to know exactly where Pakistan's nukes are and what is required to "take them out?"

What makes you think that Pakistan won't act in self-defence if we attack their country?

What happens if we drive Pakistan into the Shanghai Cooperative Organization with China and Russia and a mutual security agrement?

Russia and China don't need an internal group threatening to take over when the governments themselves are a threat .. and isn't that the premise of your thought .. a "threat"? We don't attack then because they can fight back.

In my opinion, your thought of attacking Pakistan and taking out the nukes is a recipe for disaster. There is no way we can prevent the rest of the world from acquiring nukes to protect themselves from US.

I've said that clearly

 

[Cancel 2016.2]

Exactly how many flawed and miserably failed military misadventures are required for you to recognize the utter and absolute failure of what you've just suggested?

Musharraf is already our puppet. Are you suggesting "side with him" in cracking down on dissidents? Have you any idea what the blowback from something as stupid as that would be?

Invading Northern Pakistan would ensure the demise of Musharraf and I'm betting .. make that knowing .. that Musharraf is not anxious to see US forces engaged in that blunder.

The UN is not anxious to jump in and save US ass, and there is no mandate for the UN taking control of Pakistan's nukes to sooth American jitters. It isn't just the Pakistani people who do not like us, planet earth does not like us, including members of the UN, NATO, the entire arab world, and even nations that used to be our friends.

If the US is going to piss it's pants about Pakistan it's going to have to engage in more of that unilateral cowboyism .. that is also doomed to failure.

Iraq
Iran
Turkey
The Kurds
Pakistan

All blowback from the last time the right-wing had a plan.

So bottom line, blackascoal is a reference to the color of the shit you spew forth?

When are you going to comprehend the fact that we do not care that Pakistan has nukes? WE CARE if there is an attempt to oust Musharraf by the extremists in the north and THEY get their hands on the nukes.

As for the world not liking us... fine... but that does not change the fact that most of the world doesn't want to see Osama with nukes either. Especially India, Israel, Saudi, England, Spain etc.... get it through your thick skull.... we are not the only ones concerned by this.

No one suggested the UN come in by mandate to take control of their nukes. It was suggested that the UN aid the Pakistani government from losing control of the nukes to the extremists that would very likely use the nukes.

 

[Cypress]

Exactly how many flawed and miserably failed military misadventures are required for you to recognize the utter and absolute failure of what you've just suggested?

Musharraf is already our puppet. Are you suggesting "side with him" in cracking down on dissidents? Have you any idea what the blowback from something as stupid as that would be?

Invading Northern Pakistan would ensure the demise of Musharraf and I'm betting .. make that knowing .. that Musharraf is not anxious to see US forces engaged in that blunder.

The UN is not anxious to jump in and save US ass, and there is no mandate for the UN taking control of Pakistan's nukes to sooth American jitters. It isn't just the Pakistani people who do not like us, planet earth does not like us, including members of the UN, NATO, the entire arab world, and even nations that used to be our friends.

If the US is going to piss it's pants about Pakistan it's going to have to engage in more of that unilateral cowboyism .. that is also doomed to failure.

Iraq
Iran
Turkey
The Kurds
Pakistan

All blowback from the last time the right-wing had a plan.

I agree.

I don't know what SF is expecting. I don't think he realizes that Musharaf already is our puppet as you say, and besides some lip service about "democracy" we're going to continue to support the pakistanis regime. The UN isn't going to rush in and save Bush, or the pakistanis dissidents. I'm amazed that the crowd that alleges to hate the UN, would even imagine this as a possiblity. Uh, finding and destroying all of pakistan's nukes? Wouldn't work, would be stupid, and would be illegal. And the blowback is unimaginable.

There are no pretty solutions to this. These are the consequences of a NeoCon foreign policy. I'm suprised that anyone at this point, would be dismayed and shocked that the policies they voted for for six years, would have consequences.

 

[Damocles]

Your not liking my answer to your hypothetical is your problem.

Your question is filled with assumptions that you can't answer yourself.

How do you know there is credible intelligence to know exactly where Pakistan's nukes are and what is required to "take them out?"

What makes you think that Pakistan won't act in self-defence if we attack their country?

What happens if we drive Pakistan into the Shanghai Cooperative Organization with China and Russia and a mutual security agrement?

Russia and China don't need an internal group threatening to take over when the governments themselves are a threat .. and isn't that the premise of your thought .. a "threat"? We don't attack then because they can fight back.

In my opinion, your thought of attacking Pakistan and taking out the nukes is a recipe for disaster. There is no way we can prevent the rest of the world from acquiring nukes to protect themselves from US.

I've said that clearly

You didn't answer, you just suggested I had an opinion based on a question that I did not hold and actually, point of fact, suggested would be unnecessary maybe two posts down. This is called a "strawman" and is the most popular form of logical fallacy on this site. It is very easy to argue against an opinion I do not hold because I won't support such an assertion.

That you still attempt to give me that same opinion just shows that you are stubborn and cannot accept that you may be wrong in an assumption.

It is weak to argue such a way, it only shows a conservatism of thought that I believed you may be able to overcome, but clearly do not have the ability to do.