APP - past time for the dems

Don Quixote

Don Quixote

cancer survivor
Contributor
the dems need to realize that the reps only plan is to kill health care reform and go it alone

bho and dems ran on health care reform, now deliver damn you
 
DonQuixote said:
the dems need to realize that the reps only plan is to kill health care reform and go it alone

bho and dems ran on health care reform, now deliver damn you
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The Republicans will never vote in favor of healthcare reform. Never. You may get a handful but that's about it. Their whole plan from the get go was to negotiate a watered-down bill that is less than ideal from a reform perspective and to vote against it. It's the same thing they did with the stimulus bill. Water it down and vote against.

It seems that the Democrats may finally be catching on:

WASHINGTON — Given hardening Republican opposition to Congressional health care proposals, Democrats now say they see little chance of the minority’s cooperation in approving any overhaul, and are increasingly focused on drawing support for a final plan from within their own ranks.

Top Democrats said Tuesday that their go-it-alone view was being shaped by what they saw as Republicans’ purposely strident tone against health care legislation during this month’s Congressional recess, as well as remarks by leading Republicans that current proposals were flawed beyond repair.

Rahm Emanuel, the White House chief of staff, said the heated opposition was evidence that Republicans had made a political calculation to draw a line against any health care changes, the latest in a string of major administration proposals that Republicans have opposed.

“The Republican leadership,” Mr. Emanuel said, “has made a strategic decision that defeating President Obama’s health care proposal is more important for their political goals than solving the health insurance problems that Americans face every day.”

The Democratic shift may not make producing a final bill much easier. The party must still reconcile the views of moderate and conservative Democrats worried about the cost and scope of the legislation with those of more liberal lawmakers determined to win a government-run insurance option to compete with private insurers.

On the other hand, such a change could alter the dynamic of talks surrounding health care legislation, and even change the substance of a final bill. With no need to negotiate with Republicans, Democrats might be better able to move more quickly, relying on their large majorities in both houses.

Democratic senators might feel more empowered, for example, to define the authority of the nonprofit insurance cooperatives that are emerging as an alternative to a public insurance plan.

Republicans have used the Congressional break to dig in hard against the overhaul outline drawn by Democrats. The Senate’s No. 2 Republican, Jon Kyl of Arizona, is the latest to weigh in strongly, saying Tuesday that the public response lawmakers were seeing over the summer break should persuade Democrats to scrap their approach and start over.

“I think it is safe to say there are a huge number of big issues that people have,” Mr. Kyl told reporters in a conference call from Arizona. “There is no way that Republicans are going to support a trillion-dollar-plus bill.”
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Now if Reid would only wrest control of the bill in the Senate from Max Baucus we may actually get somewhere.


http://www.nytimes.com/2009/08/19/health/policy/19repubs.html?_r=2&hp=&pagewanted=print
 
DonQuixote said:
the dems need to realize that the reps only plan is to kill health care reform and go it alone

bho and dems ran on health care reform, now deliver damn you
Click to expand...
Even Obama's backing off on the public option. How does it feel to be under the bus with his grandmother, and Rev Wright?
 
DonQuixote said:
the dems need to realize that the reps only plan is to kill health care reform and go it alone

bho and dems ran on health care reform, now deliver damn you
Click to expand...
Unfortunately that appears to be correct. I can't fault Obama there. They have gone the extra mile to reach out and compromize with Republican who have used every one of these efforts to undermine the efforts to reform health care. It looks like Dems will have to go it alone. The question is, do they have the political courage and will to go it alone?
 
It will certainly change things here if the Dems do push this through alone, especially if all those folks that are righteously angry/concerned, see Pelosi and Reid in action with the Blue Dogs.

I thought in November that it would take at least 3 election cycles for conservatives to regain any control, now 2010 is looking pretty good. :cof1:

Thanks to Boxer, Pelosi, Reid, saying that protesters are unAmerican, dumb as a dining room table, dressed too well or too poorly, ignorant. Yep, these folks sure know how to treat all those folks that voted for them last election, you know the independents that are also against this big gov't care and trying to be heard.
 
I don't know what they are made of, but do know what Reid and Pelosi are capable of. They'd need to switch to Republican or Independent, but can see how well that worked for Specter and Lieberman.
 
Dems are such losers. Here they are with the power to do what they want, but they know it will be such a failure that they're unwilling to go it alone.
 
Mott the Hoople said:
Unfortunately that appears to be correct. I can't fault Obama there. They have gone the extra mile to reach out and compromize with Republican who have used every one of these efforts to undermine the efforts to reform health care. It looks like Dems will have to go it alone. The question is, do they have the political courage and will to go it alone?
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With 54% saying it would be better to do nothing than pass this, I can only imagine what next November would look like after they shoved this down onto "The People" without work.
 
I'm thinking this may be a trial balloon. Have 'rumor' that Rahm was saying it, Obama disagrees. Pelosi and Waxman saying yeah. :cool:

Pelosi and Waxman I believe, Rahm is no fool and dems alone on this would prove a problem foreseeable.
 
Damocles said:
With 54% saying it would be better to do nothing than pass this, I can only imagine what next November would look like after they shoved this down onto "The People" without work.
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That's because no one really knows what's in it. If the Dems decide to push this through on a partisan basis then they had better get their PR shoes out and do a lot of walking and talking to explain how this bill will work. That could turn things around. It could be a set back for Dems. If their reforms work, it would be a major set back for Republican who opposed it.
 
Mott the Hoople said:
That's because no one really knows what's in it. If the Dems decide to push this through on a partisan basis then they had better get their PR shoes out and do a lot of walking and talking to explain how this bill will work. That could turn things around. It could be a set back for Dems. If their reforms work, it would be a major set back for Republican who opposed it.
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Nobody knows what's in it because dems won't discuss it rationally. They have no pr shoes. They would rather shut down debate. They really don't care if the people are on board. What people are noticing most of all is the elitism and lack of care about what people think. This is why OBAMA is a one termer, who will achieve nothing.
 
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Mott the Hoople said:
That's because no one really knows what's in it. If the Dems decide to push this through on a partisan basis then they had better get their PR shoes out and do a lot of walking and talking to explain how this bill will work. That could turn things around. It could be a set back for Dems. If their reforms work, it would be a major set back for Republican who opposed it.
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So far all they've put on were the jack-boots in order to attempt to shut down any debate on the issue in the public forum.

Shoot, they've taken to splitting up groups at "town halls" and limiting time with each group. This allows them to separate out the protesters into their own groups and keep them talking only to each other...

First they need to stop trying to silence anybody who disagrees, competition of ideas will make whatever finally survives better, not worse.
 
The White House is saying now that there will be no leaving the Republicans out of discussions according to CNN and FOX.

I think that balloon was lead.
 
The Democrats have no ideology besides compromise. The Republicans are 100% conservative, 100% lockstep. They start bargaining from the craziest position first, and then move down to merely normal crazy. The Democrats start on compromise, and bargain down to what the Republicans want. The Democrats just give and give and give and give and pretend they'll get something out of it.
 
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