PLAME was a covert operative officer

Well. Let's not spin. The Executive can choose to declassify what they wish, when they wish. It is one of the powers of the executive. Had these people simply spoke up and stated, "Yeah, we declassified that." there would have been no recourse. Instead they began a political game to hide their involvement. They were caught at it. Those who simply spoke up and said, "Yeah, that's what happened." are still in office, those who tried to hide things are not.

One person thought he could get away with hiding his involvement. He was wrong. It takes some bad judgment to assume you'll get away with hiding things like that.
 
Damocles said:
Well. Let's not spin. The Executive can choose to declassify what they wish, when they wish. It is one of the powers of the executive. Had these people simply spoke up and stated, "Yeah, we declassified that." there would have been no recourse. Instead they began a political game to hide their involvement. They were caught at it. Those who simply spoke up and said, "Yeah, that's what happened." are still in office, those who tried to hide things are not.

One person thought he could get away with hiding his involvement. He was wrong. It takes some bad judgment to assume you'll get away with hiding things like that.
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Well yes the PRESIDENT can declassify, using his discerned judgement...but according to what was said by the head of security at the hearing, THERE ARE PROCEDURES TO FOLLOW to do such and one is making sure the ORIGINATOR of the classified document is notified and made aware of such declassification to make sure none of our people and national security is not hurt by it or basically to assess the risk to all involved.

NONE, ABSOLUTELY NONE, OF THIS PROTOCOL was done....


classified information can not be haphazzardly released as was done by Bush, IF he really did declassify it and is not just covering for Cheney's actions....
 
Care4all said:
Well yes the PRESIDENT can declassify, using his discerned judgement...but according to what was said by the head of security at the hearing, THERE ARE PROCEDURES TO FOLLOW to do such and one is making sure the ORIGINATOR of the classified document is notified and made aware of such declassification to make sure none of our people and national security is not hurt by it or basically to assess the risk to all involved.

NONE, ABSOLUTELY NONE, OF THIS PROTOCOL was done....


classified information can not be haphazzardly released as was done by Bush, IF he really did declassify it and is not just covering for Cheney's actions....
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If you'll notice, information was freely given that indicates that she was "outted" by those in the administration. Where it was freely given nobody was charged. This indicates that the whole "crime" angle is simply spin from the other side.

What they did was try to cover it up so that they could gain short-term politically. That ended up actually becoming a crime because one of them ended up lying.

What Scooter should have done is the same thing that Clinton's guy did. Admit it, and make a quick deal. He'd have paid some money and have been done with it. Instead he thought that he could get away with it, and has ended up in a sad state indeed.
 
Dixie said:
why would Waxman state that DCI Hayden had reveiwed his statement for material accuracy - in which he clearly stated that Plame WAS covert at the time of the Novak article - if that were not the case?

Because Waxman, like you and Care, is a political opportunist and pinhead liberal with an agenda. That's why!

ANd why would Hayden - an administration man- then, allow Waxman to say something like that if it were not materially accurate?

Oh, it can 'materially accurate' all day long, it just isn't illegal according to the law. If it had been, someone would have been indicted, tried, and convicted for it, and they weren't. As I said, everyone who works for the CIA, their information regarding what they do is confidential and classified information. Novak didn't reveal what Plame did for the CIA, as far as I know. In fact, there are still aspects of Plame's job with the CIA that haven't been disclosed, so this has nothing to do with revealing she worked for the CIA.

You are trying to tie two ropes together from across the room, and it just won't work. It's not a crime to say Plame works for the CIA, it is a crime to reveal her actual job, but no one did that.
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YOU and YOUR ILK are hanging on to the law that Victoria Toensing help create...

THERE ARE MANY LAWS that cover classified information being exposed and "victoria's" law is NOT ONE OF THEM....

yet you keep hanging on to this one specific law as if it is this law that is the ONLY law that matters, WHEN IT IS NOT....

executive order 12958 is the law that covers the release of classified people and documents and that is what is being talked about here....

so, as long as you keep toeting this law that victoria helped create, that your side has hung on to like it is God himself, you are barking up the wrong tree....
 
Damo....do you REALLY BELIEVE that Bush authorized the leak of valerie plame's position by declassifying it and then in the next breath said to the entire world he would "take care of" the person or persons that leaked her name?

And do you really believe that for 3 years they kept this quiet, not once notifying the Originator of the classified information that they declassified it?

I don't for one nano second... not one!
 
Care4all said:
Damo....do you REALLY BELIEVE that Bush authorized the leak of valerie plame's position by declassifying it and then in the next breath said to the entire world he would "take care of" the person or persons that leaked her name?

And do you really believe that for 3 years they kept this quiet, not once notifying the Originator of the classified information that they declassified it?

I don't for one nano second... not one!
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What I believe is that if just that was an indication that a law was broken they had plenty of evidence of the "outting". Clearly it was not enough that they "outted" her.

So what I believe is that the Special Prosecutor did what he could and prosecuted where he could. Just the "outting" was clearly not enough as there is clear indications that would have gotten any jury to indict had that been enough.

It is therefore "spin" to say that just the "outting" was enough to be a criminal act. You need to look more into what your side is telling you and figure out the truth. Those that might give it to you here will not be listened to. So, take it on and figure it out yourself... your side is spinning as much as the other in this case.
 
YOU and YOUR ILK are hanging on to the law that Victoria Toensing help create...

THERE ARE MANY LAWS that cover classified information being exposed and "victoria's" law is NOT ONE OF THEM....

yet you keep hanging on to this one specific law as if it is this law that is the ONLY law that matters, WHEN IT IS NOT....

executive order 12958 is the law that covers the release of classified people and documents and that is what is being talked about here....

so, as long as you keep toeting this law that victoria helped create, that your side has hung on to like it is God himself, you are barking up the wrong tree....
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We keep hanging on to the law Toensing created because that was the law you claimed was violated! Yes, there is an executive order about releasing classified information, but as Damo pointed out, the information had been declassified, so those laws do not apply either. In short, there was no violation of the law here, and the only person to be convicted was Scooter, and it was because he lied under oath, like Clinton did.

Me and my ILK are going by what the fucking LAW says, you are trying to force some made up and contrived bullshit on the public and someone should put your ass in jail for that, but they won't.
 
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just for a moment....forget the legal aspect of it for a second, Dixie....

Do you think that it was a GOOD thing for this country for Team Bush to reveal the fact that Valerie Plame was a CIA operative, when such information was NOT common knowledge, given the fact that it (1)ruined her future contribution to the area of WMD proliferation which she was extremely well versed in, (2) put all of those foreign operatives that she had worked with over the years in danger, and (3) damaged the confidence that the CIA operatives themselves place in their government to protect their identity?

Do you really think it was a good thing to do? And if it was a bad thing, do you think that anyone should be punished for doing it?
 
go ahead, if you have the guts and read the executive order, in full....

http://www.whitehouse.gov/news/releases/2003/03/20030325-11.html

then tell me about what laws were broken or not broken.........

the president and vp DID NOT FOLLOW security procedures to declassify information....

fitzy did not want to prosecute them.... is what it boils down to...

what good would prosecuting libby and rove be when it was directed by the president/vice president?

all fitzy said was the VP had a dark cloud looming over him in this matter....now why would he say that....huh? he's not a democrat, he is a republican....

perhaps if there was a democratic prosecutor, the equivalent of kenneth star, it would have been DONE....
 
you can't by law declassify information, even if you are the president, without assessing the damage it could cause to our sources, or a foreign government, and without notifying the originating dept of the classified document... PERIOD.

and there is no record of such, PERIOD.

and if there had been, then the cia who was the originator of the document and its classified information would have KNOWN that it was declassified by the president and would have had no need to request the justice department investigate this CRIME. PERIOD

PLAY GAMES ALL YOU WANT....it is unethical to do such imo.
 
you can't by law declassify information, even if you are the president

Yes, the President of the United States has this executive authority. SO Sorry!

....it is unethical to do such imo.

Ah, yes, but it's not illegal, and your opinion doesn't matter!
 
Do you think that it was a GOOD thing for this country for Team Bush to reveal the fact that Valerie Plame was a CIA operative...blah blah bleat bleat!

Yes I do! I think any time the opposition party tries to undermine the party in power, it is fundamental that they be called on it. That is what happened. Plame orchestrated her husband getting the Niger gig, specifically so he could come back and tell us all that the Niger Yellowcake story was bogus, which turned out NOT to be the case. Democrats were having a field day with this contrived propaganda concocted by liberal democrat hacks, and the administration retaliated, tough shit! It's what you get when you start playing hard ball with the big boys!
 
then the cia who was the originator of the document and its classified information would have KNOWN that it was declassified by the president and would have had no need to request the justice department investigate this CRIME. PERIOD

WHAT CRIME! I swear! This is like a "who's on first" routine! There was no fucking crime committed, we've been through this already!

Your query is about the most ridiculous thing I have ever heard! You are asking me why a bunch of partisan democrat witch hunters would have pursued this thing, if they knew no crime was committed? Geee... Duhh... I don't fucking know why, Care... maybe it had something to do with the 2004 Presidential Election we were in the midst of? ...Oh no, of course not, why would the lily white angels of the Democrat party do such a thing?
 
dixie.... this issue was not about a ''party'', the vp could have used legitimate and above board methods to try to counter act what wilson had said....without hurting our national security, without hurting wilson's wife and her family's security, and without hurting her sources over the years she worked undercover for her COUNTRY.... our ''presidents'' in office are evil to the core.

you are a complete mind controlled idiot....and need to be Baker Acted by your family!!!!!!!!

our president and veep's arrogance are a danger to our country.... they need to be impeached....now.

nuff said...
 
dixie.... this issue was not about a ''party''
No? It appears to me it's ALL about party!

the vp could have used legitimate and above board methods to try to counter act what wilson had said....
Why the fuck should he? The Democrats didn't!

without hurting our national security
PULEEZE.... Give me a break!

without hurting wilson's wife and her family's security
They should have thought about this before they tried to pull their little con job on the American people, don't you think? Hey, they are lucky, if this shit had been pulled on the Clintons, they would have probably found poor Val and Joe dead in Ft. Marcy Park.

and without hurting her sources over the years she worked undercover for her COUNTRY....
Who gives a shit what contacts an Ambassadors wife might have had? I'm sure we lost a lot of valuable information regarding Tanzanian cooking recipe's!

our ''presidents'' in office are evil to the core.
And it's a damn good thing, it takes EVIL to fight EVIL!

you are a complete mind controlled idiot....
No, that would be YOU my dear. I'm not the one running around spreading propaganda about crimes and laws being broken, when that is not the case.

and need to be Baker Acted by your family!!!!!!!!
And they need to put you in the facility they killed Terri Schiavo at!

our president and veep's arrogance are a danger to our country....
Nahhhh... YOU and your ILK are more of a danger.


they need to be impeached....now.
Right, but in order to do this, there has to be a justifiable reason to bring articles of impeachment, and so far, there hasn't been. Minor snafu there, again... So Sorry!

nuff said...
Yup!
 
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please, as they said when I was a kid, go to heaven and make a u turn.....

you are the most intellectually dishonest person that I have ever encountered and an embarassment to America...... please, leave and go somewhere else in the world...Bagdhad would be a great place for you....and take your ilk with you....pretty please.
 
Care4all said:
please, as they said when I was a kid, go to heaven and make a u turn.....

you are the most intellectually dishonest person that I have ever encountered and an embarassment to America...... please, leave and go somewhere else in the world...Bagdhad would be a great place for you....and take your ilk with you....pretty please.
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you are the most intellectually dishonest person that I have ever encountered and an embarassment to America...

Dixie is little more than a troll - you're just finding that out? ;)


As for him going to Iraq to fight in his war - forget it. Pounding on a keyboard and ranting against "cut and runners" is the extent of support Dixie is going to expend on his war.
 
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