plane hits building in Austin
- Thread starter Chapdog
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WinterBorn
Guest
The man didn't off himself over a measly $40,000. He offed himself after battling a system that is designed to be unnavigable by average citizens. He was fed up with a system that requires huge amounts of money and time just to avoid punishment by the gov't that is supposed to be serving us.
We spend $500 BILLION a year on tax compliance. That is more than we spend on education (K thru 12) in the entire nation. And that $500 billion is not what we PAY in taxes. It is what we pay to make sure we only pay what we owe and to figure out what the tax code says.
The system is broken and no real efforts have been made to fix it. It is an atrocity and a crime against the american people.
What this lunatic did was wrong. But what drove him to it (even if its only in his own mind) is equally wrong.
We spend $500 BILLION a year on tax compliance. That is more than we spend on education (K thru 12) in the entire nation. And that $500 billion is not what we PAY in taxes. It is what we pay to make sure we only pay what we owe and to figure out what the tax code says.
The system is broken and no real efforts have been made to fix it. It is an atrocity and a crime against the american people.
What this lunatic did was wrong. But what drove him to it (even if its only in his own mind) is equally wrong.
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apple0154
MEOW
He continually chose the battle for 25 years! He even moved States to try and find a loophole in the tax code. He was aware of the tax laws back in the 80's but, no, he was insistent on trying to twist and manipulate. He wrote, "I saw it written once that the definition of insanity is repeating the same process over and over and expecting the outcome to suddenly be different. I am finally ready to stop this insanity." He finally knew he was insane.
He wrote, "During 1987, I spent close to $5000 of my ‘pocket change’, and at least 1000 hours of my time writing, printing and mailing to any senator, congressman, governor..."
The guy never learned. He also wrote, "But here I am with a new marriage and a boatload of undocumented income..."
Then there's the omitted $12,000.00 his "wife had no clue would ever matter to anyone."
Are these crooks for real? The guy should have practiced his engineering and left financial swindling to someone else. He was a wanna-be Madoff who never made it.
DamnYankee
Loyal to the end
About 5 years ago I hired a CPA to manage my taxes for a small business with 5 employees. I paid this guy about $4000/ year. When I dumped that business I dumped him as well. A year later I got a letter from the IRS notifying me of a $2000 fine, and the rest of the letter was unintelligible. So I called them up, and after being on hold for a while and tossed around to several departments I got a young woman on the phone, and I asked her what the fine was for. It turned out the CPA had used the wrong form when sending them money. I asked her if I had sent the correct amount and she said yes, but I had used the wrong form. I told her that they had obviously cashed the check and she told me that I had used the wrong form. I told her that I had hired a CPA to make sure that I was abiding by the law and she told me that I was the president of the company and that I had used the wrong form. So I asked her what recourse I had and she gave me the number of a form to file.
I called one of those attorneys that advertises on he radio about IRS problems and he told me that the fine wasn't big enough for him to bother with. I called my Congressman and that office told me that since the matter had gone beyond a certain point they couldn't intervene. So I filed the form and then got a second notice of the same fine and that my bank account would be seized yada yada. Then a couple weeks later a notice from my bank that the money had been confiscated. Then a second notice that another $2000 had been seized as well. I assume that second shot was because I sent in the wrong form to appeal the fine.
To add insult upon insult to injury the IRS then sent six of my biggest clients a notice that they had seized $4000 out of my bank account.
All I can say is that this guy should have targeted more carefully to have taken down some top policy makers that put him in the predicament that he was in. Maybe he could have put a nice little army together, as I'm sure there are many more of us out there who have been screwed by this agency. He could have been a patriot instead of just a martyr.
I called one of those attorneys that advertises on he radio about IRS problems and he told me that the fine wasn't big enough for him to bother with. I called my Congressman and that office told me that since the matter had gone beyond a certain point they couldn't intervene. So I filed the form and then got a second notice of the same fine and that my bank account would be seized yada yada. Then a couple weeks later a notice from my bank that the money had been confiscated. Then a second notice that another $2000 had been seized as well. I assume that second shot was because I sent in the wrong form to appeal the fine.
To add insult upon insult to injury the IRS then sent six of my biggest clients a notice that they had seized $4000 out of my bank account.
All I can say is that this guy should have targeted more carefully to have taken down some top policy makers that put him in the predicament that he was in. Maybe he could have put a nice little army together, as I'm sure there are many more of us out there who have been screwed by this agency. He could have been a patriot instead of just a martyr.
W
WinterBorn
Guest
He worked for his money and didn't want to lose a third of it to the gov't. That is a crook? The IRS is the crooked organization.
DamnYankee
Loyal to the end
They are also all-powerful, vindictive and the only game in town, unless you have all your clients pay cash. And if you do that they'll send the FBI in and toss your ass in jail after they take your house and destroy your family.
They tried to destroy me over a wrong form. I'm sure there are millions of horror stories out there much worse.
Here's all I can say to the IRS:
They tried to destroy me over a wrong form. I'm sure there are millions of horror stories out there much worse.
Here's all I can say to the IRS:
If you read his manifesto it seems he was involved in some sort of tax evasion or avoidance scheme. Part of his complaint was that this scheme was used by the wealthy and that he should be able to do the same. To me it sounds like the bitching of a little child who got caught doing something wrong and turns himself into a victim because his brother did the same thing but was not caught.
He then filed a return failing to disclose his wife's income. He blames that on the accountant, of course.
All we have is his side of the story and he has done little but make himself look like a whiny little bitch with a crucifixion complex.
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WinterBorn
Guest
This common view that trying to keep more of the money that you earned is greedy and bad is pure nonsense.
Our tax code is currently over 56,000 pages long. Even the IRS cannot agree on proper interpretations.
I am sure everyone has heard of Tax Freedom Day? Its the day of the year at which the average american's would finish paying his tax burden.
In 1900 that day was January 22nd. In 1950 it was Feb. 12th. In 1950 it was March 31st. And in 2000 it was May 3rd. Last year it was April 13th. (showing some improvement).
The fact that we work for 2.5 months of the year just to pay our taxes is nuts.
It is not as if this guy was taking some principled stand against the IRS. He was attempting to best them through stealth. I have far more respect for the Irwin Schiff types.
He did not want to be one of the suckers. If he had gotten away with it, I would not much care. But his whole rant showed that he was primarily pissed that the rich did not get caught.
The IRS is crooked but this guy bitches about not having health care provided for him. Is he too stupid to understand how that must be financed? No, he just wanted someone else to pay for it.
As I mentioned in another post, I would not begrudge him if he got away with it. But his whine is largely about how the wealthy get away with it. Further, the guy advocates for more of the programs that make the IRS necessary.
He is not decrying the injustice of being fleeced by the IRS. He just wants to be one of the privileged who don't have to pay and is bitter that he got caught while others do not.
Fuck him!
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WinterBorn
Guest
Part of the people involved with the Tea Party are very much involved with tax reform. So this guy would have been supportive of that part.
But I fail to see any reason to bring up that connection except as an attempt to continue the "He was a liberal! No he was a conservative" trash talking.
I think this guy is the radical extension of the tea party movement.
Had there been a liberal equivelent to the Tea Party when Bush was President they would be calling it a terrorist orginization. Remember Cindy Sheehan, the GOLD STAR mother who was attacked.
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WinterBorn
Guest
No, what is sad is that you think people who want to keep the money that THEY EARN are greedy, but the politicians who continue to take more and more money from the people by force are somehow noble in their endeavors.
The tax money spent on road, police, education, and such are a tiny drop in the bucket. It is the huge amount of waste in the gov't spending that makes it hard to swallow.
If you were hungry and asked me for a few bucks to buy a meal, I would be happy to help you. But if you demanded that I buy you 3 steak dinners at a fancy restaurant and you only at 1 of them, I would be pissed.
And the fact that some people have to pay much greater percentages of their income while some pay little or no tax is what galls many of us.
I did not get to my present income because I demanded that someone else do shit for me. I got here by busting my ass. For that they tax my money when I earn it, when I spend it, while I save it, and then hide taxes in every step of the process of manufacturing and service so the prices are inflated.
I am not whining. I am pissed that my gov't screws me over. And even more pissed that my fellow citizens think that its just fine for the gov't to do so. And even more pissed still that I am called greedy when I disagree with it.
Man Winter, I've been reading over this thread and another dealing with the same incident and I have to say that you have hit the nail on the head every time. We shouldn't have to work for 2.5 - 3 months to get our taxes paid. The tax code is a screwed up mess that most cannot fully understand. And finally....when something like this happens you got your completely partisans like Jarod and apple trying to paint this guy as a conservative or righty (impossible if you even read his letter) and those on the right trying to paint him as a lefty (and he certainly isn't your average lefty). It gets aggravating that folks can't see him for what he was....and that everytime something like this happens we want to put the nut on "the other side."
apple0154
MEOW
Are you able to sue the CPA?
He should have joined a militia, offing yourself and taking all of one person with you and leaving a nearly unreadable manifesto doesn't do anything to solve the issue. Of course his weird socialism may have barred him from that one, maybe he should have started his own.
apple0154
MEOW
Yes, the guy was a crook, a stupid one at that. He used the roads and schools and everything else the government supplies which you helped pay for. In other words he tried to steal from you and the government caught him.
How many other engineers are working just as hard as he did but are contributing to society? Probably lots.
And what's with the $12,000.00 his wife "forgot" about? It must be nice to have so much money ones forgets about $12,000.00.
When I hear things like that the government should take the entire $12,000.00. Hey, if you forgot about it just forget the government took it.
Why would he be? He was in support of the health care reform.