plane hits building in Austin

[Timshel]

If it's not luck and circumstance to have parents who can help you what is it? What could the average person have done to ensure they would have parents who would help them? The answer, nothing. Yet, having ones home as soon as possible makes the biggest difference in the vast majority of ones financial future.

It's circumstance. It has nothing to do with luck. But are you then arguing that the parents who saved should have their money spent on someone else's children?

It is all about luck and circumstance. One job opening and two identical candidates. Same age. Same education. It could come down to the color of their shirt or some quip made during the interview that determined who got hired.

So what? Most employers are primarily concerned about the value of your skills and how they can turn that into profit. Further, one interview is not all that likely to make or break your career.

 

[tinfoil]

Thanks. But it's no miracle I'm just following Fox and CNN.

LOL

you are a news GOD!!

 

[USFREEDOM911]

What haven't I defended?

Your statements.

 

[apple0154]

First off I am not a proponent of the fair tax. But you are wrong in your argument.

Bill has to spend has to survive. We have already established that. He can't save every dime. The only reason you gave for John spending more is that he has a family. Presumably, then the extra spending is proportional to the number of family members. The extra money John spends and therefore pays in taxes is for his family, not for Bill.

The income tax however unfairly requires Bill to subsidize John's extra family members.

If Bill is simply more thrifty than John, then this is a benefit to society. More thrift leads to greater capitalization and higher wages for all.

Depending on the definition and/or level of thrift it is generally not beneficial to society. It may be beneficial to the individual but it is the constant spending of money that keeps society moving. Thrift is hoarding and hoarding is never beneficial to society as a whole.

Also, once a certain level is reached it's the money that makes money. Again, beneficial to the individual but not society as a whole because the only way money makes money is by the labor of others.

 

[apple0154]

It's circumstance. It has nothing to do with luck. But are you then arguing that the parents who saved should have their money spent on someone else's children?

No, I believe in easier mortgages for young people. I know, what a terrible thing to say considering what has happened but more than a few of those default mortgages are due to people buying houses as a temporary investment. There needs to be a first time home buyer mortgage.

So what? Most employers are primarily concerned about the value of your skills and how they can turn that into profit. Further, one interview is not all that likely to make or break your career.

Tell that to Susan Boyle.
http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=103143666

Unemployed and 48 years old. She should have been discovered decades ago and living in a mansion. While she's definitely a notable exception many people go through life "missing the boat".

How many people do we see on those Star Search programs? That's just a microcosm of society.

When I purchased a rental property there was a family renting one of the apartments. The owner offered them a chance to buy the building at 1/2 the market price because the young lady who owned the building had inherited it, recently married, moved away and just didn't want the hassle of tenants. I had bumped into my Real Estate agent as she coming out of the video store and I told her I was looking for another building as I had purchased one the year prior and she mentioned that building to me.

Property values were depressed then. One apartment was empty. The family living there, for whatever reason, felt it was a bad investment. In less than five years the price of buildings in the neighborhood increased 3-fold meaning that particular building increased 6 times what I paid for it.

I sold it and the person who purchased it decided to move in and, guess what, they wanted the apartment where the family lived. Not only that, they had lived there for over 10 years and had rent control. Their next apartment cost them double the rent.

Did I work harder than anyone else? What, exactly, do I attribute my good fortune to other than luck and circumstance? Deciding to rent a video on a certain day?

I suppose it's my pet peeve when I hear people who have done well say how hard they worked and how much they sacrificed and how lazy other people are. The truth of the matter is the vast majority of them got a break or were just lucky. If that wasn't the case other people would do the same thing. If acquiring wealth is simply a matter of working hard why isn't there directions that others can follow like there are for making a cake or building a deck?

As another poster commented life may not be fair but we can try our best to even it out a bit. At the very least we can stop disparaging those who were not as fortunate. (Not referring to you specifically.)

 

[USFREEDOM911]

No, I believe in easier mortgages for young people. I know, what a terrible thing to say considering what has happened but more than a few of those default mortgages are due to people buying houses as a temporary investment. There needs to be a first time home buyer mortgage.



Tell that to Susan Boyle.
http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=103143666

Unemployed and 48 years old. She should have been discovered decades ago and living in a mansion. While she's definitely a notable exception many people go through life "missing the boat".

How many people do we see on those Star Search programs? That's just a microcosm of society.

When I purchased a rental property there was a family renting one of the apartments. The owner offered them a chance to buy the building at 1/2 the market price because the young lady who owned the building had inherited it, recently married, moved away and just didn't want the hassle of tenants. I had bumped into my Real Estate agent as she coming out of the video store and I told her I was looking for another building as I had purchased one the year prior and she mentioned that building to me.

Property values were depressed then. One apartment was empty. The family living there, for whatever reason, felt it was a bad investment. In less than five years the price of buildings in the neighborhood increased 3-fold meaning that particular building increased 6 times what I paid for it.

I sold it and the person who purchased it decided to move in and, guess what, they wanted the apartment where the family lived. Not only that, they had lived there for over 10 years and had rent control. Their next apartment cost them double the rent.

Did I work harder than anyone else? What, exactly, do I attribute my good fortune to other than luck and circumstance? Deciding to rent a video on a certain day?

I suppose it's my pet peeve when I hear people who have done well say how hard they worked and how much they sacrificed and how lazy other people are. The truth of the matter is the vast majority of them got a break or were just lucky. If that wasn't the case other people would do the same thing. If acquiring wealth is simply a matter of working hard why isn't there directions that others can follow like there are for making a cake or building a deck?

As another poster commented life may not be fair but we can try our best to even it out a bit. At the very least we can stop disparaging those who were not as fortunate. (Not referring to you specifically.)

Why didn't you offer it to the renters, as a rent-to-own, you heartless uncaring bastard?

 

[Timshel]

Depending on the definition and/or level of thrift it is generally not beneficial to society. It may be beneficial to the individual but it is the constant spending of money that keeps society moving. Thrift is hoarding and hoarding is never beneficial to society as a whole.

LOL. Sorry, but you have absolutely no clue what you are talking about. If there were no thrift all capital would disappear and our productive abilities would go back to the dark ages.

 

[apple0154]

Why didn't you offer it to the renters, as a rent-to-own, you heartless uncaring bastard?

Yes, I did feel guilty. My brother and he knew each other through business transactions, as well. Also, I had dealings with his company a few years prior but didn't recall specifically seeing him. (Small world.)

He was a really nice guy as far as I knew him. Quiet. Sociable.

Thanks for stirring up shitty feelings.

 

[Timshel]

Tell that to Susan Boyle.
http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=103143666

Unemployed and 48 years old. She should have been discovered decades ago and living in a mansion. While she's definitely a notable exception many people go through life "missing the boat".

How many people do we see on those Star Search programs? That's just a microcosm of society.

And they invariably suck. A lot of the people that are supposedly discovered on these shows are not.

Besides that, there are not many jobs for those types of talents.

I suppose it's my pet peeve when I hear people who have done well say how hard they worked and how much they sacrificed and how lazy other people are. The truth of the matter is the vast majority of them got a break or were just lucky. If that wasn't the case other people would do the same thing. If acquiring wealth is simply a matter of working hard why isn't there directions that others can follow like there are for making a cake or building a deck?

I am not wealthy but earn a pretty good income. Anyway, I got hundreds of breaks. Some good, some bad. Everyone does.

Again, working hard and denying yourself things in order to save are not easy to do.

All but a small number of people could be in spectacular shape if they ate right and exercised. That's all it really takes. But few people do it.

 

[apple0154]

All but a small number of people could be in spectacular shape if they ate right and exercised.

Good point. Extra weight does tire one out and not eating properly causes one to run out of energy. Along with a lifestyle some people live, generally when young, causes them to appear lazy when the problem is simply lifestyle.

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And they invariably suck. A lot of the people that are supposedly discovered on these shows are not.

Besides that, there are not many jobs for those types of talents.



I am not wealthy but earn a pretty good income. Anyway, I got hundreds of breaks. Some good, some bad. Everyone does.

Again, working hard and denying yourself things in order to save are not easy to do.

All but a small number of people could be in spectacular shape if they ate right and exercised. That's all it really takes. But few people do it.

 

[Taichiliberal]

No one is above the law. From the president of a Fortune 500 company to a waiter at a local restaurant, everyone has to pay their fair share of income taxes.

Through the National Tax Defier Initiative, obedient taxpayers can rest assured that the United States will enforce the tax laws fully.

Although the Tax Division and the IRS have been effective in combating tax defier activity, the problem demands constant vigilance.

The National Tax Defier Initiatives' mission will be to ensure that we are using all of the tools in our enforcement arsenal.

Tax defiers do not meet their federal tax obligations and seek to transfer those obligations to their neighbor’s back.

The tax defier is not someone who has a legitimate or factual dispute about the amount of tax due.

The tax defier is not someone who is merely exercising his or her First Amendment rights to challenge the tax policy choices that Congress has made.

Instead, the tax defier is someone who rejects the legal foundation of the tax system, despite decades of legal precedent upholding the system’s constitutional and statutory validity, and who takes specific and concrete action to violate the law.

It is this tax defier conduct, which results in fraudulent claims, frivolous returns and bogus schemes, that threatens the foundation of our tax system and must be vigorously countered.

This activity not only wastes governmental investigative, administrative and judicial resources, but it also fundamentally undermines the public’s confidence in the tax system.

Not quite:

http://home.hiwaay.net/~becraft/CREATEirs.html

And here's a case where there's at least one recent incident at to legitimacy for not paying txes

http://www.truthout.org/article/justice-loses-fourth-case-against-tax-deniers

I'm not justifying ALL acts/reasons of tax denial/defiance...but I do recognize that there is a realistic reason based in historic fact for those who question the very legitimacy of the IRS.

 

[USFREEDOM911]

Yes, I did feel guilty. My brother and he knew each other through business transactions, as well. Also, I had dealings with his company a few years prior but didn't recall specifically seeing him. (Small world.)

He was a really nice guy as far as I knew him. Quiet. Sociable.

Thanks for stirring up shitty feelings.

But your "feelings" really helped that poor couple who had to move, pay more in rent, and probably suffered for your cold hearted attitude.

But then; your life is good, so why should you care.

 

[WinterBorn]

Depending on the definition and/or level of thrift it is generally not beneficial to society. It may be beneficial to the individual but it is the constant spending of money that keeps society moving. Thrift is hoarding and hoarding is never beneficial to society as a whole.

Also, once a certain level is reached it's the money that makes money. Again, beneficial to the individual but not society as a whole because the only way money makes money is by the labor of others.

Your statement only applies if the money saved is stuffed in a mattress. But that is not how things work. They save their money in banks, investment funds and other financial institutions. That money is used to provide capital for businesses.

 

[apple0154]

But your "feelings" really helped that poor couple who had to move, pay more in rent, and probably suffered for your cold hearted attitude.

But then; your life is good, so why should you care.

Don't forget they did get an opportunity to buy the building before I bought it. Also, I didn't move in the building and take their apartment so they had a few years more in their place.

Hmmm, I guess I am an alright guy! Thanks for encouraging me to write it out.

 

[Timshel]

Your statement only applies if the money saved is stuffed in a mattress. But that is not how things work. They save their money in banks, investment funds and other financial institutions. That money is used to provide capital for businesses.

Even if they stuff it in a mattress all they are going to be doing is bolstering the value of the dollar as they lose money through inflation. Stuffing it in a mattress actually subsidizes the consumption of others using the dollar. This is basically what foreign governments are doing when they hold our dollar in reserve.

 

[Topspin]

Now that is funny! If busting ones ass and working long hours is the secret why aren't more people doing it? Where is the instruction book? How many hours are in a multi-millionaire's day compared to the amount of hours in a minimum wage-earner's day?

Other than winning a lottery or receiving an inheritance invariably every rich person became rich off the labor of others. Luck and circumstance also played a major part but who wants to forgo the ego trip of saying they worked harder than anyone else?


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Sorry, but you are truely clueless, most millionaires own thier own business and struggled for 20yrs to get their. Why isn't everyone doing it, because it's not easy. In fact it's very hard, most business fail.

 

[apple0154]

Sorry, but you are truely clueless, most millionaires own thier own business and struggled for 20yrs to get their. Why isn't everyone doing it, because it's not easy. In fact it's very hard, most business fail.

The reason most businesses fail is because there isn't a plan to follow. It has little to do with busting ones ass or should I say busting ones ass is no guarantee of business success if one wants to parse words.

Did you think the plumber who owns 3 or 4 outlets across the city unblocked that many more toilets than his competitor?

You are the one who is clueless, my friend. Do you actually KNOW any people who got rich just by "working hard"? I mean really know them. Someone who would trust you enough to tell you the nasty little tricks involved?

I do. I know a few people. Nicest folks I've ever met but I'd never get involved with them in any business dealings if my life depended on it and, yes, I've been approached.

Either you're extremely naive or knowingly talking BS. Few, if any, followed the "straight and narrow" and those who did were lucky. Luck and circumstance, not hard work in the sense those who failed were lazy.

 

[Timshel]

The reason most businesses fail is because there isn't a plan to follow. It has little to do with busting ones ass or should I say busting ones ass is no guarantee of business success if one wants to parse words.

Did you think the plumber who owns 3 or 4 outlets across the city unblocked that many more toilets than his competitor?

You are the one who is clueless, my friend. Do you actually KNOW any people who got rich just by "working hard"? I mean really know them. Someone who would trust you enough to tell you the nasty little tricks involved?

I do. I know a few people. Nicest folks I've ever met but I'd never get involved with them in any business dealings if my life depended on it and, yes, I've been approached.

Either you're extremely naive or knowingly talking BS. Few, if any, followed the "straight and narrow" and those who did were lucky. Luck and circumstance, not hard work in the sense those who failed were lazy.

This is a bunch of misanthropic horse shit.

I have known several wealthy people well enough. Most of them did not inherit a thing. Actually, as I think about it, most were immigrants that came to this country with nothing. I never had any reason not to trust them.

Nearly all were hard workers who were capable of deferring consumption in order to save their money.

Of course, working hard does not guarantee wealth. No one has argued that it does.

Take two people at the same starting point. One is a hard worker that is careful with his money. One is lazy and spends frivolously. Obviously, the first guy is FAR more likely to attain wealth. It is unbelievable that anyone would argue otherwise.

 

[Sammy Jankis]

This is a bunch of misanthropic horse shit.

I have known several wealthy people well enough. Most of them did not inherit a thing. Actually, as I think about it, most were immigrants that came to this country with nothing. I never had any reason not to trust them.

Nearly all were hard workers who were capable of deferring consumption in order to save their money.

Of course, working hard does not guarantee wealth. No one has argued that it does.

Take two people at the same starting point. One is a hard worker that is careful with his money. One is lazy and spends frivolously. Obviously, the first guy is FAR more likely to attain wealth. It is unbelievable that anyone would argue otherwise.

But the lazy one with family connections to the military industrial complex will surely prevail over the hard worker. Misanthropy is refusing to acknowledge this reality.

 

[apple0154]

This is a bunch of misanthropic horse shit.

I have known several wealthy people well enough. Most of them did not inherit a thing. Actually, as I think about it, most were immigrants that came to this country with nothing. I never had any reason not to trust them.

Nearly all were hard workers who were capable of deferring consumption in order to save their money.

Of course, working hard does not guarantee wealth. No one has argued that it does.

Take two people at the same starting point. One is a hard worker that is careful with his money. One is lazy and spends frivolously. Obviously, the first guy is FAR more likely to attain wealth. It is unbelievable that anyone would argue otherwise.

That's exactly what I've been saying. Working hard does not guarantee wealth. And the other side of the coin is being wealthy does not guarantee the person worked hard.