Pleading the 5th

Damocles said:
The decision for somebody to use their 5th Amendment right may have something to do with what that same professional may do with a misrepresented or misconstrued testimony believing themselves to be in the right. As I said before, would you want to end up the goat? Honestly, you may want this one to "get" them, and I understand people's reaction. But stating that somebody is unequivocally guilty because of pleading the 5th is pretty much an overstatement based on wishes. There are other reasons that somebody may invoke their 5th Amendment Rights.
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I agree, there are other reasons Damo.

The first one that comes to mind, and the only circumstance I can see myself pleading the 5th in, is; fear of incriminating someone else. Someone whom you do not want to incriminate.

Otherwise? Personally, I feel if you plead the 5th, 9 times out of 10, if not 10 times out of 10, it's because you'd have to lie under oath if you didn't. In other words, majority of the times it's pleaded, it's because someone is worried about their own ass. A minority of times it's pleaded, it's because someone is worried about someone else's ass.

At no time, with a possible handful of exceptions that make the rule, is it pleaded for any other reason.
 
somebody in the office here made a good point.

All congress has to do is offer her immunity, and she will be compelled to testify. I don't believe you can pleade the 5th, once you have immunity.
 
Cypress said:
somebody in the office here made a good point.

All congress has to do is offer her immunity, and she will be compelled to testify. I don't believe you can pleade the 5th, once you have immunity.
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I haven't seen that idea mentioned. Maybe Leahy isn't feeling like he wants to offer immunity to anybody. But it would be interesting to see what happened, if it were offered.
 
Darla said:
I haven't seen that idea mentioned. Maybe Leahy isn't feeling like he wants to offer immunity to anybody. But it would be interesting to see what happened, if it were offered.
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She doesn't have to accept the offer. Outside of Congress, a judge would bar their recent actions as a "fishing expedition."
 
Darla said:
I haven't seen that idea mentioned. Maybe Leahy isn't feeling like he wants to offer immunity to anybody. But it would be interesting to see what happened, if it were offered.
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I think you're right that an offer of immunity, is a choice of last resort.

I seem to remember that Ollie North was given immunity, and that's how he was ultimately compelled to testify in front of congress.
 
Well this is a "fishing expedition" to see if the allegations of law breaking are true. Unless you have overpowering evidence, all investigations are.
 
Cypress said:
I think you're right that an offer of immunity, is a choice of last resort.

I seem to remember that Ollie North was given immunity, and that's how he was ultimately compelled to testify in front of congress.
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I thought Ollie was convicted and pardoned....
 
Damocles said:
Nah, In a trial against yourself, unless it is a Grand Jury, you have the right not to testify regardless of whether it will incriminate you. Often during a trial the defense simply doesn't call the Defendant. This is a 5th Amendment thing with no need to "invoke".

The only reason that they must invoke the 5th is because they were subpoenaed and must appear. Therefore, in this case, if they wish to not testify as is their right, regardless of any incrimination, they simply invoke that right.
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Often a judge will not allow someone to invoke the 5th unless they offer a proffer that would incriminate them.
 
Darla said:
Yes, and quite a few Iran/Contra convicts ended up serving in the 2nd Bush adminstration.

It's considered "padding your resume" in Republican circles.
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ROFL-time!

That's so funny. I guess its a "badge of honor", to have taken your hits from those evil "liberal" activist judges.
 
Damocles said:
Where is the judge?
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If Congress wanted to enforce its subpoena, I belive they could file an action in D.C. Circuit Court, have a judge assigned to the case, who would then conduct a hearing to hear all of the objections and then would rule as to if the person truely faced self incrimination by testifying. If she did he would sustain her objection to testifying due to her 5th amendment privledge, if he did not feel she was in any legal jeoparty due to what she would testify he would overrule her objection to testifying due to the 5th amendment.

There is some question as to if Congress would have standing to file the action, it might be, Ironically enough, up to the Justice Department to enforce the subpoenas.
 
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I know that during watergate when certian witnesses subpoenaed by Congress threatened to not show because they felt the subpoena's were not enforceable, Congress threatened to send the Sargent at Arms to go out and pick them up and bring them to the well of the Sennate to face questioning. The only punishment for failing to obey a subpoena would, however have to come from a Court.

I have, on several ocasions, had to get a judge to explain to someone who was under subpoena that he would send them to jail if they failed to cooperate. In fact, Ive had judges issue warrants for the arrest of witnesses who failed to appear. The only problem with that is once your witness has been arrested at you request... He usually becomes a poor witness, even when he does cooperate.
 
Jarod said:
I know that during watergate when certian witnesses subpoenaed by Congress threatened to not show because they felt the subpoena's were not enforceable, Congress threatened to send the Sargent at Arms to go out and pick them up and bring them to the well of the Sennate to face questioning. The only punishment for failing to obey a subpoena would, however have to come from a Court.

I have, on several ocasions, had to get a judge to explain to someone who was under subpoena that he would send them to jail if they failed to cooperate. In fact, Ive had judges issue warrants for the arrest of witnesses who failed to appear. The only problem with that is once your witness has been arrested at you request... He usually becomes a poor witness, even when he does cooperate.
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It's great when you give us a professional lawyer's insight on these things Jarod. I always read them and appreciate them.

Jarod, how is your dad?
 
the asst attorney general that was sacraficed last week, who testified before congress that no one in the administration was involved in the firing of the 8 prosecutors for any reason other than it being the pleasure of the president, which turned out to be a LIE once the emails came forth, told someone on the judicial committee last night that the only reason he said this was BECAUSE................this is what ''this woman pleading the 5th now'' told him.... that he believed what she told him, therefore it was not an intentional lie before congress on his part....

soooo, now SHE is pleading the fifth.
 
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