Political Gang Cultures

He had been sold out by the West at Munich, and had to buy time. The Soviet Union defeated Hitler at unbelievable cost, and the USA would have been totally insane not to send such minimal help as it did.

Poor, poor little Stalin. Always getting fucked by the West. He should have stuck to murdering his own people, not anyone else. There's a reason why the Russians don't revere him like other Russian leaders. No doubt some would want to turn his grave into a public toilet.

As for Lend-Lease to the Soviets; yes it was a good move by FDR.

https://news.stanford.edu/2010/09/23/naimark-stalin-genocide-092310/
Stalin had nearly a million of his own citizens executed, beginning in the 1930s. Millions more fell victim to forced labor, deportation, famine, massacres, and detention and interrogation by Stalin’s henchmen.

“In some cases, a quota was established for the number to be executed, the number to be arrested,” said Naimark. “Some officials overfulfilled as a way of showing their exuberance.”



https://www.history.com/news/ukrainian-famine-stalin
Ultimately, although Stalin’s policies resulted in the deaths of millions, it failed to crush Ukrainian aspirations for autonomy, and in the long run, they may actually have backfired. “Famine often achieves a socio-economic or military purpose, such as transferring land possession or clearing an area of population, since most flee rather than die,” famine historian de Waal says. “But politically and ideologically it is more often counterproductive for its perpetrators. As in the case of Ukraine it generated so much hatred and resentment that it solidified Ukrainian nationalism.”

Eventually, when the Soviet Union collapsed in 1991, Ukraine finally became an independent nation—and the Holodomor remains a painful part of Ukrainians’ common identity.



https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Joseph_Stalin#Death_toll_and_allegations_of_genocide
Official records reveal 799,455 documented executions in the Soviet Union between 1921 and 1953; 681,692 of these were carried out between 1937 and 1938, the years of the Great Purge.[892] However, according to Michael Ellman, the best modern estimate for the number of repression deaths during the Great Purge is 950,000–1.2 million, which includes executions, deaths in detention, or soon after their release.[893] In addition, while archival data shows that 1,053,829 perished in the Gulag from 1934 to 1953,[894] the current historical consensus is that of the 18 million people who passed through the Gulag system from 1930 to 1953, between 1.5 and 1.7 million died as a result of their incarceration.[895] The historian and archival researcher Stephen G. Wheatcroft and Michael Ellman attribute roughly 3 million deaths to the Stalinist regime, including executions and deaths from criminal negligence.[896][897] Wheatcoft and historian R. W. Davies estimate famine deaths at 5.5–6.5 million[898] while scholar Steven Rosefielde gives a number of 8.7 million.[899] The American historian Timothy D. Snyder in 2011 summarised modern data, made after the opening of the Soviet archives in the 1990s, and concludes that Stalin's regime was responsible for 9 million deaths, with 6 million of these being deliberate killings. He notes that the estimate is far lower than the estimates of 20 million or above which were made before access to the archives.[900]

Historians continue to debate whether or not the 1932–33 Ukrainian famine—known in Ukraine as the Holodomor—should be called a genocide.[901] Twenty six countries officially recognise it under the legal definition of genocide.
 
Poor, poor little Stalin. Always getting fucked by the West.

They fucked themselves, and us, silly footling buggers. Imagine what a mess they had to make before anyone would bring Churchill back! Your own country was too busy trying to provoke war with Japan to notice, of course, and you got more than you bargained for, including war with Germany. Why exactly are you spending so much time on this history? Do you think the Trumpites were behind it? The question is whether we can have a sensible political discussion about modern conditions, and here we are, back in the 1940's. It doesn't seem to me to lead the discussion forward much.
 
For a good few years now, starting very much in the 'States but evident in most countries, because of new media and a few other things, groups of people have been able, more and more, to live in closed worlds in which they hear only one version of events, so that politics becomes increasingly the mere exchange of abuse. It makes me wonder whether democracy can possibly survive without serious debate. I think the problem is greatest in the USA, however, because the people who have become the followers of Trump seem, like earlier anti-democratic movements, simply uninterested in even appearing rational (which is why I keep calling them 'fascist' or 'nazi'), and they seem to have pushed aside the serious believers in capitalism and conservative values, who used to be able to make some sort of case for what they thought. It is all very well just shouting back - my Wife says I am unbelievably calm and placid when I can work off my negative feelings on barely-literate and pointlessly-aggressive trumpers - but I seriously begin to wonder if the human race can survive not only pandemics and world-overheating but this turn to savagery. It's not quite as bad over here, but America is the current centre of world capitalism, and where it goes others tend to follow. Does anyone see any way, other than Civil War, that we can get back to the compromise we used to manage, or is it going to be a matter or revolution or death? I'm thinking more of my own family than about an abstract Humanity, obviously, but aren't we all?

No bitch, you call them that because that's what your handlers have programmed you to do.


Is Trump using the US Navy to terrorize and sink commercial shipping boats and cruise liners?
No.
Therefore Trump is not a Nazi, because that's exactly what Hitler did. Trump does not do that.
 
No bitch, you call them that because that's what your handlers have programmed you to do.


Is Trump using the US Navy to terrorize and sink commercial shipping boats and cruise liners?
No.
Therefore Trump is not a Nazi, because that's exactly what Hitler did. Trump does not do that.

I strongly doubt any members of this forum have "handlers". Some, like the TD twins, Text Driver and the like probably have "orderlies".

41wezv.jpg
 
His next argument will probably be "the Electoral College was created because of slavery." That's the common assumption by the left now, even though it's an obvious conflation of the Electoral College with the 3/5 Compromise.

No, it is not. The Electoral College was a device to get the slave states to join the union. If a state or 2 declined, America would not have proceeded as it did. It was about slave states as opposed to slavery. It was practical and political not moral.
 
No, it is not. The Electoral College was a device to get the slave states to join the union. If a state or 2 declined, America would not have proceeded as it did. It was about slave states as opposed to slavery. It was practical and political not moral.

The Electoral College in and of itself only had to do with states being represented in a manner that was more balanced than just going for the straight popular vote. It's the same rationale behind the creation of the Senate.

The slave question was not brought up until the 3/5 Compromise. That was applied to the Electoral College, not the reason for the College itself.
 
The Electoral College in and of itself only had to do with states being represented in a manner that was more balanced than just going for the straight popular vote. It's the same rationale behind the creation of the Senate.

The slave question was not brought up until the 3/5 Compromise. That was applied to the Electoral College, not the reason for the College itself.

The Electoral College was and is an excuse to cheat in elections and circumvent Democracy! Sorry, but someone needs to tell the truth and "consequences" here!

It's like me telling you, "Fuck You and your vote- because you don't count! "We don't like people who live where you do- so FUCK OFF!"
 
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The Electoral College was and is an excuse to cheat in elections and circumvent Democracy! Sorry, but someone needs to tell the truth and "consequences" here!

It's like me telling you, "Fuck You and your vote- because you don't count! "We don't like people who live where you do- so FUCK OFF!"

Not really. The central problem with the Electoral College has to do with states that implement "winner takes all." If every state got rid of that, then electoral votes could be distributed in each state in accordance with their respective popular votes. That would closely mirror the national popular vote, even if it wouldn't match exactly. It would also encourage more people to vote in states where they are the political minority.
 
He was as hippy as they come. LOL.

OK! From a Hippy's viewpoint, I can somewhat agree!

You have a bunch of holier than thou alcoholic assholes in Washington, and in just about every state capitol telling people- "If you smoke or grow marijuana, "I'll throw you in jail- I'll confiscate your home, vehicle, CHILDREN and everything else you have- MEANWHILE PASS ME ANOTHER ONE OF THEM THERE BUDWEISERs"!

Sort of mobbish don't you think? LOL!
 
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OK! From a Hippy's stand point, I can somewhat agree!

You have a bunch of holier than thou alcoholic assholes in Washington, and in just about every state capitol telling people- "If you smoke or grow marijuana, "I'll throw you in jail- I'll confiscate your home, vehicle and everything else you have- MEANWHILE
PASS ME ANOTHER ONE OF THEM THERE BUDWEISERs"!

Sort of mobbish don't you think? LOL!

He came from the era of Woodstock and Vietnam War. He thought the government was like the mafia (mobism).
 
Not really. The central problem with the Electoral College has to do with states that implement "winner takes all." If every state got rid of that, then electoral votes could be distributed in each state in accordance with their respective popular votes. That would closely mirror the national popular vote, even if it wouldn't match exactly. It would also encourage more people to vote in states where they are the political minority.

I knew we could compromise and agree on something!

Yes, Winner Takes All is not really fair or democratic.

It's like telling someone, "You don't qualify for a job because you only have 3 and 1/2 years of college and all those efforts are useless to me and don't mean a thang"!!
 
For a good few years now, starting very much in the 'States but evident in most countries, because of new media and a few other things, groups of people have been able, more and more, to live in closed worlds in which they hear only one version of events, so that politics becomes increasingly the mere exchange of abuse. It makes me wonder whether democracy can possibly survive without serious debate. I think the problem is greatest in the USA, however, because the people who have become the followers of Trump seem, like earlier anti-democratic movements, simply uninterested in even appearing rational (which is why I keep calling them 'fascist' or 'nazi'), and they seem to have pushed aside the serious believers in capitalism and conservative values, who used to be able to make some sort of case for what they thought. It is all very well just shouting back - my Wife says I am unbelievably calm and placid when I can work off my negative feelings on barely-literate and pointlessly-aggressive trumpers - but I seriously begin to wonder if the human race can survive not only pandemics and world-overheating but this turn to savagery. It's not quite as bad over here, but America is the current centre of world capitalism, and where it goes others tend to follow. Does anyone see any way, other than Civil War, that we can get back to the compromise we used to manage, or is it going to be a matter or revolution or death? I'm thinking more of my own family than about an abstract Humanity, obviously, but aren't we all?

I read this twice, there is a lot to unpack..

I'm not inclined to do so, but I am a bit more optimistic..

Some blame the left, others blame it all on trump, others that he is merely a symptom, who ever is right :dunno:

but it was before he was & will be when he's gone & we will survive..

If you look back @ our history w/ anything other than rose colored glasses anyone can see we have been anything but a big happy family..
 
No bitch, you call them that because that's what your handlers have programmed you to do.


Is Trump using the US Navy to terrorize and sink commercial shipping boats and cruise liners?
No.
Therefore Trump is not a Nazi, because that's exactly what Hitler did. Trump does not do that.

This is fairly typical of the nonsense I was talking about. What has this drivel got to do with anything, except possibly your having drunk too much last night?
 
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