Popular mechanics article about the Climategate

Chapdog

Abreast of the situations
http://www.popularmechanics.com/science/earth/4338343.html?page=1


What East Anglia's E-mails Really Tell Us About Climate Change
PM guest analyst Peter Kelemen, a professor of geochemistry at Columbia University's Department of Earth and Environmental Sciences, explains what stolen e-mails from climate scientists corresponding with East Anglia University tell us about global warming—and what they don't.
By Peter Kelemen
Published on: December 1, 2009


In the past two weeks, scientists like myself have been gripped by news of the theft and online release of more than a decade of e-mails from one of the world's leading centers for climate-change research, the Hadley Climatic Research Unit (CRU) at Britain's University of East Anglia. During these same weeks, world political leaders have been preparing for a climate summit in Copenhagen and a new study has indicated that a major ice sheet in eastern Antarctica, previously thought to be stable, is in fact losing mass. But those developments have been clouded by the stolen e-mails and what they may imply about how research into human-induced global warming is carried out.

Among the hundreds of e-mails, 10 to 20 messages seem to indicate that scientists at CRU and their correspondents considered deleting information requested by critics in the context of British and American freedom of information laws, and in at least two separate cases discussed how to have associate editors of peer-reviewed journals removed from their posts because they accepted critics' papers for publication. We do not know the detailed context of these messages, nor do we know if ideas discussed in these e-mails were actually implemented. Furthermore, though CRU has confirmed that most of the e-mails are genuine, some of them could have been forged or altered. Nevertheless, I think it is important for scientists to clearly state that if basic data were withheld, or if there was unprofessional tampering with the peer-review process, we do not condone these acts. It is equally essential to emphasize that alleged problems with a few scientists' behavior do not change the consensus understanding of human-induced, global climate change, which is a robust hypothesis based on well-established observations and inferences.

I am not a climate science specialist and I can't claim to represent the wider science community. However, I am a geologist with a Ph.D. and 30 years of research experience. As I became personally involved in research on CO2 capture and storage over the past four years, I have taken an increasing interest in the underlying observations that have led the great majority of scientists to conclude that action is necessary to reduce and mitigate CO2 emissions.

Open Access to Data
In tracking news reports and other commentary online, I have noticed vigorous exaggeration of the import of the stolen messages by global warming critics, and a relative silence on the part of the wider science community. But on the climate science commentary site RealClimate.org, I saw a statement from the moderators that "science doesn't work because people are polite at all times. Gravity isn't a useful theory because Newton was a nice person." Such statements—while true—could lead readers to conclude that the apparent misconduct revealed in the stolen e-mails is normal, and within the bounds of ordinary scientific discussion. I believe that would be a mistake.

It is often said that no one should see the ugly reality of how politics or sausages are made. But that's not true in the world of scientific research. Transparency is the goal, and in my experience it is also the norm. With regard to sharing data, my view is that data gathered by public monitoring organizations (e.g., the National Weather Service) should be made available to anyone as soon as technically feasible. Data gathered as part of government-funded research grants to research scientists should probably be available within two to four years even if nothing is published, and should definitely be available upon request as soon as work is published that relies on these data. Now, in practice, there are all sorts of glitches and inefficiencies in data sharing, and apparently some subset of the climate data used at CRU are confidential. However, if researchers actively tried to avoid disclosing basic data to their critics, as one might infer from several e-mails, I believe this was unethical. In one case, in which someone apparently advised deleting e-mails that might be subject to a Freedom of Information Act request in the U.K., it looks as though scientists may have broken the law, or at least seriously considered doing so. If so, this is not "normal" in scientific circles and it certainly is not acceptable.

continued on link...
 
When scientists go out of their field, they almost always end up simply reinventing old errors in the belief that they're providing deep insights. A geologist has nothing to say about global warming.
 
Good find, Chap. I'm repeating the last paragraph here in order to emphasize a couple of parts:

"It is often said that no one should see the ugly reality of how politics or sausages are made. But that's not true in the world of scientific research. Transparency is the goal, and in my experience it is also the norm. With regard to sharing data, my view is that data gathered by public monitoring organizations (e.g., the National Weather Service) should be made available to anyone as soon as technically feasible. Data gathered as part of government-funded research grants to research scientists should probably be available within two to four years even if nothing is published, and should definitely be available upon request as soon as work is published that relies on these data. Now, in practice, there are all sorts of glitches and inefficiencies in data sharing, and apparently some subset of the climate data used at CRU are confidential. However, if researchers actively tried to avoid disclosing basic data to their critics, as one might infer from several e-mails, I believe this was unethical. In one case, in which someone apparently advised deleting e-mails that might be subject to a Freedom of Information Act request in the U.K., it looks as though scientists may have broken the law, or at least seriously considered doing so. If so, this is not "normal" in scientific circles and it certainly is not acceptable. "

It has been my experience as well that transparency is the norm. Generally we can't wait to "strut our stuff" at conferences, to show what we've discovered and how we went about it. I'm also very pleased if someone else has done similar work with similar findings.

The new, recently passed regulation that NIH-funded research must be made available publicly includes the availability of all raw data. That regulation is now in place and is being enforced.
 
When scientists go out of their field, they almost always end up simply reinventing old errors in the belief that they're providing deep insights. A geologist has nothing to say about global warming.

He was talking about scientific enquiry in general, Water. Moreover, he did say that as a geologist he has now begun studies on CO2 levels, which is entirely legitimate in his field. Do you not suppose that after 30 years he knows how to investigate prior findings in a new topic? :)
 
The emails may have been altered?

They may indicate wrongdoing.

There is no proof that what SOME claim the emails Proove.
 
most of the e-mails are genuine, some of them could have been forged or altered

Some could be altered.

How the hell can you prove anything when they could have been altered?

BTW those ACORN tapes mad by the Pimp Kid were also proven to be altered.
 
most of the e-mails are genuine, some of them could have been forged or altered

Some could be altered.

How the hell can you prove anything when they could have been altered?

BTW those ACORN tapes mad by the Pimp Kid were also proven to be altered.

congratulations, you're a crack head.
 
When scientists go out of their field, they almost always end up simply reinventing old errors in the belief that they're providing deep insights. A geologist has nothing to say about global warming.

We all have our opinions ....I'm sure, even you.....though yours will parrot the warmers without a word of variation....


An interesting article, but being a skeptic, I note some of his comments....

" All data show that atmospheric CO2 is going up. This increase is very strongly correlated with the historical increase in human CO2 emissions. Ice-core gas samples show that the current concentration in CO2 is unprecedented for at least 500,000 years (and probably many millions of years, based on other data). There have been many other periods in the glacial record when atmospheric CO2 went up without any help from humans, but they show a much slower rate of increase of CO2, and much lower maximum concentrations.
For these reasons, and based on carbon isotope data, it is all but certain that the present, unprecedented rise in CO2 is due mainly to human output."

I don't understand this conclusion....
Correlation does not translate into cause and effect....

he says,

"one cannot rule out with complete certainty other factors, for example, global warming itself, that could also be significantly contributing to the atmospheric CO2 increase." and he points out that there have been many other periods in the glacial record when atmospheric CO2 went up without any help from humans.

Personally, I find those events extremely significant....

"variation due to sunspot activity, or the last gasp of a long warming trend caused by variation in the Earth's orbit—might also be contributing to temperature change."..............?

Might?....the sun is the number one uncontrollable source of heat..... heat that keeps our planet from becoming an iceball.... so much for the word "might"

"There may be other factors, not yet accounted for, which could more or less suddenly emerge, and offset some or all of the future CO2 increase"

Could offset some or all the future CO2 increase? And maybe SOME or ALL of the past increase.....

I don't think anyone is denying "climate change" is a fact or that world temperature varies...that is a given....but I see no reason to accept that man is indeed a factor in the least...certainly not for past change, and its doubtful for the present change......

Solar change is obvious reason for climate change in the past, resulting in an increase of CO2, resulting in more warming by the greenhouse effect, etc.....until solar change again became a factor in earths cooling, resulting in a decrease of CO2, etc, etc, etc.....
long before man and the industrial age....
 
most of the e-mails are genuine, some of them could have been forged or altered

Some could be altered.

How the hell can you prove anything when they could have been altered?

BTW those ACORN tapes mad by the Pimp Kid were also proven to be altered.

HACK COUGH SPUTTER FUCK
 
Good find, Chap. I'm repeating the last paragraph here in order to emphasize a couple of parts:

"It is often said that no one should see the ugly reality of how politics or sausages are made. But that's not true in the world of scientific research. Transparency is the goal, and in my experience it is also the norm. With regard to sharing data, my view is that data gathered by public monitoring organizations (e.g., the National Weather Service) should be made available to anyone as soon as technically feasible. Data gathered as part of government-funded research grants to research scientists should probably be available within two to four years even if nothing is published, and should definitely be available upon request as soon as work is published that relies on these data. Now, in practice, there are all sorts of glitches and inefficiencies in data sharing, and apparently some subset of the climate data used at CRU are confidential. However, if researchers actively tried to avoid disclosing basic data to their critics, as one might infer from several e-mails, I believe this was unethical. In one case, in which someone apparently advised deleting e-mails that might be subject to a Freedom of Information Act request in the U.K., it looks as though scientists may have broken the law, or at least seriously considered doing so. If so, this is not "normal" in scientific circles and it certainly is not acceptable. "

It has been my experience as well that transparency is the norm. Generally we can't wait to "strut our stuff" at conferences, to show what we've discovered and how we went about it. I'm also very pleased if someone else has done similar work with similar findings.

The new, recently passed regulation that NIH-funded research must be made available publicly includes the availability of all raw data. That regulation is now in place and is being enforced.

Exactly. That is why so many people have a problem with this. The fact that both the CRU and Goddard have fought the release of data via FOIA requests is pathetic at best.
 
When scientists go out of their field, they almost always end up simply reinventing old errors in the belief that they're providing deep insights. A geologist has nothing to say about global warming.

doesn't that leave you with nothing to say about anything?........
 
When scientists go out of their field, they almost always end up simply reinventing old errors in the belief that they're providing deep insights. A geologist has nothing to say about global warming.
Translation:

I didn't read it, therefore I am dissing somebody who supports my position on things and undermining my own argument and support of something that I don't understand.
 
most of the e-mails are genuine, some of them could have been forged or altered

Some could be altered.

How the hell can you prove anything when they could have been altered?

BTW those ACORN tapes mad by the Pimp Kid were also proven to be altered.

"How the hell can you prove anything when they could have been altered?"

Gee, that is a tough one.
Oh WAIT; maybe the someone could declare them altered and then show the where they were altered.
All they have to do, is turn over their hard drives and have the documents down loaded.

:good4u:
 
Good find, Chap. I'm repeating the last paragraph here in order to emphasize a couple of parts:

"It is often said that no one should see the ugly reality of how politics or sausages are made. But that's not true in the world of scientific research. Transparency is the goal, and in my experience it is also the norm. With regard to sharing data, my view is that data gathered by public monitoring organizations (e.g., the National Weather Service) should be made available to anyone as soon as technically feasible. Data gathered as part of government-funded research grants to research scientists should probably be available within two to four years even if nothing is published, and should definitely be available upon request as soon as work is published that relies on these data. Now, in practice, there are all sorts of glitches and inefficiencies in data sharing, and apparently some subset of the climate data used at CRU are confidential. However, if researchers actively tried to avoid disclosing basic data to their critics, as one might infer from several e-mails, I believe this was unethical. In one case, in which someone apparently advised deleting e-mails that might be subject to a Freedom of Information Act request in the U.K., it looks as though scientists may have broken the law, or at least seriously considered doing so. If so, this is not "normal" in scientific circles and it certainly is not acceptable. "

It has been my experience as well that transparency is the norm. Generally we can't wait to "strut our stuff" at conferences, to show what we've discovered and how we went about it. I'm also very pleased if someone else has done similar work with similar findings.

The new, recently passed regulation that NIH-funded research must be made available publicly includes the availability of all raw data. That regulation is now in place and is being enforced.
OH no! Not more regulations? What will the libertarians say? :clink:
 
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