Powerful Times cover. Don't leave Afghanistan.

FUCK THE POLICE

911 EVERY DAY
Afghan Women and the Return of the Taliban
By ARYN BAKER Thursday, Jul. 29, 2010

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ENLARGE PHOTO+
Photograph by Jodi Bieber


The following is an abridged version of an article that appears in the Aug. 9, 2010, print and iPad editions of TIME magazine.
The Taliban pounded on the door just before midnight, demanding that Aisha, 18, be punished for running away from her husband's house. Her in-laws treated her like a slave, Aisha pleaded. They beat her. If she hadn't run away, she would have died. Her judge, a local Taliban commander, was unmoved. Aisha's brother-in-law held her down while her husband pulled out a knife. First he sliced off her ears. Then he started on her nose.

(See managing editor Richard Stengel's message to readers about this week's cover.)

This didn't happen 10 years ago, when the Taliban ruled Afghanistan. It happened last year. Now hidden in a secret women's shelter in Kabul, Aisha listens obsessively to the news. Talk that the Afghan government is considering some kind of political accommodation with the Taliban frightens her. "They are the people that did this to me," she says, touching her damaged face. "How can we reconcile with them?"

In June, Afghan President Hamid Karzai established a peace council tasked with exploring negotiations with the Taliban. A month later, Tom Malinowski from Human Rights Watch met Karzai. During their conversation, Karzai mused on the cost of the conflict in human lives and wondered aloud if he had any right to talk about human rights when so many were dying. "He essentially asked me," says Malinowski, "What is more important, protecting the right of a girl to go to school or saving her life?" How Karzai and his international allies answer that question will have far-reaching consequences, not only for Afghanistan's women, but the country as a whole.

As the war in Afghanistan enters its ninth year, the need for an exit strategy weighs on the minds of U.S. policymakers. Such an outcome, it is assumed, would involve reconciliation with the Taliban. But Afghan women fear that in the quest for a quick peace, their progress may be sidelined. "Women's rights must not be the sacrifice by which peace is achieved," says parliamentarian Fawzia Koof.


Yet that may be where negotiations are heading. The Taliban will be advocating a version of an Afghan state in line with their own conservative views, particularly on the issue of women's rights. Already there is a growing acceptance that some concessions to the Taliban are inevitable if there is to be genuine reconciliation. "You have to be realistic," says a diplomat in Kabul. "We are not going to be sending troops and spending money forever. There will have to be a compromise, and sacrifices will have to be made."

For Afghanistan's women, an early withdrawal of international forces could be disastrous. An Afghan refugee who grew up in Canada, Mozhdah Jamalzadah recently returned home to launch an Oprah-style talk show in which she has been able to subtly introduce questions of women's rights without provoking the ire of religious conservatives. On a recent episode, a male guest told a joke about a foreign human-rights team in Afghanistan. In the cities, the team noticed that women walked six paces behind their husbands. But in rural Helmand, where the Taliban is strongest, they saw a woman six steps ahead. The foreigners rushed to congratulate the husband on his enlightenment — only to be told that he stuck his wife in front because they were walking through a minefield. As the audience roared with laughter, Jamalzadah reflected that it may take about 10 to 15 years before Afghan women can truly walk alongside men. But once they do, she believes, all Afghans will benefit. "When we talk about women's rights," Jamalzadah says, "we are talking about things that are important to men as well — men who want to see Afghanistan move forward. If you sacrifice women to make peace, you are also sacrificing the men who support them and abandoning the country to the fundamentalists that caused all the problems in the first place."


Read more: http://www.time.com/time/world/article/0,8599,2007238,00.html#ixzz0v9DeAp7N
 
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This is one of the unintended consequences of interfering in and trying to change a country's/people's customs. Just like those citizens living within a "Green Zone" protected by Allied troops, those who turned against their government to support change, what will happen to them when the Allies leave?

That girl is 18 years old. For half her life, the past nine years, she has been exposed to western ways, customs. Are there any 18 year olds who don't rebel against any old system?

Look back at the 60's, right here at home. Whether it was politicians or ministers or students people died as changes were proposed and those changes were nothing compared to the changes being advocated in Afghanistan. War protesters didn't have their ears and noses cut off!

We, the Allies, going into foreign countries on the noble mission of freeing women and instilling false hopes in impressionable children having them believe change is here and we'll protect them. That is the child's understanding of reality, their being susceptible to our propaganda they don't realize what could happen to them.

When will we learn? Instead of just going in and getting the terrorists, be it a quick or lengthy endeavor, we insist on interfering and turning a country upside down.

What responsibility do we accept for what happened to that girl? At the very least we are responsible for misleading and influencing her. How many other girls and women will suffer similar fates due to our "We'll free you" slogans.

There will be a compromise with the Taliban or we'll never leave Afghanistan. But there's nothing new there. We've done that before. We've promised people we'd help them if they rose up against their governments and then walked away.

Whatever one may think of Obama the least that can be said is he hasn't invaded countries and caused turmoil resulting in deaths and torture like we witness today.

Will anyone remember that girl's face the next time some war monger suggests invading a foreign country? Will anyone remember that girl's face the next time we hear "We're coming to set you free"?

The propaganda, the rhetoric, the lies of war all contributed to that girl's fate.

Recall how the establishment fought against the "right's advocates" of the 60s even though the "rights" were part of the Constitution. Does anyone think we can change over a thousand years of customs in foreign countries?

That front page should be posted in the Oval Office and in the halls of Congress and in the Pentagon and anywhere else people get together to plan war because that is the face of war.
 
the best thing to do for these people is teach them how to use firearms, then sell them a few each. freedom isn't free, you have to fight for it.
 
the best thing to do for these people is teach them how to use firearms, then sell them a few each. freedom isn't free, you have to fight for it.

I think it's a bit more complicated then that. We have been training a supposed army for about 6 years now. The corruption in Afghanistan is due, imo, to a confined and backwards way of perceiving the world. A world shaped by a religion administered by misogynistic violent men. We would have been better off opening schools teaching philosophy for the last 9 years. An educated populace will desire freedom worth fighting for; then give them guns.

btw-note to jarod-----see the woman's face? sharia law.
 
I think it's a bit more complicated then that. We have been training a supposed army for about 6 years now. The corruption in Afghanistan is due, imo, to a confined and backwards way of perceiving the world. A world shaped by a religion administered by misogynistic violent men. We would have been better off opening schools teaching philosophy for the last 9 years. An educated populace will desire freedom worth fighting for; then give them guns.

btw-note to jarod-----see the woman's face? sharia law.

the bolded part is the issue. we may have been training an army, but that's nothing more than enforcement agents for the corruption. we need to train the people. much like we should be doing over here.
 
This is one of the unintended consequences of interfering in and trying to change a country's/people's customs. Just like those citizens living within a "Green Zone" protected by Allied troops, those who turned against their government to support change, what will happen to them when the Allies leave?

That girl is 18 years old. For half her life, the past nine years, she has been exposed to western ways, customs. Are there any 18 year olds who don't rebel against any old system?

Look back at the 60's, right here at home. Whether it was politicians or ministers or students people died as changes were proposed and those changes were nothing compared to the changes being advocated in Afghanistan. War protesters didn't have their ears and noses cut off!

We, the Allies, going into foreign countries on the noble mission of freeing women and instilling false hopes in impressionable children having them believe change is here and we'll protect them. That is the child's understanding of reality, their being susceptible to our propaganda they don't realize what could happen to them.

When will we learn? Instead of just going in and getting the terrorists, be it a quick or lengthy endeavor, we insist on interfering and turning a country upside down.

What responsibility do we accept for what happened to that girl? At the very least we are responsible for misleading and influencing her. How many other girls and women will suffer similar fates due to our "We'll free you" slogans.

There will be a compromise with the Taliban or we'll never leave Afghanistan. But there's nothing new there. We've done that before. We've promised people we'd help them if they rose up against their governments and then walked away.

Whatever one may think of Obama the least that can be said is he hasn't invaded countries and caused turmoil resulting in deaths and torture like we witness today.

Will anyone remember that girl's face the next time some war monger suggests invading a foreign country? Will anyone remember that girl's face the next time we hear "We're coming to set you free"?

The propaganda, the rhetoric, the lies of war all contributed to that girl's fate.

Recall how the establishment fought against the "right's advocates" of the 60s even though the "rights" were part of the Constitution. Does anyone think we can change over a thousand years of customs in foreign countries?

That front page should be posted in the Oval Office and in the halls of Congress and in the Pentagon and anywhere else people get together to plan war because that is the face of war.

Fuck their customs. People have rights, not societies.
 
Fuck their customs. People have rights, not societies.

And they have a right to run their own country the way they see fit. The general population does not want us there. That's why the fighting has gone on for nine years. If the majority wanted a change they had plenty of time to implement it.

They don't want our way of life and the biggest lie of all is telling people the Taliban want to change our way of life. Common sense shows it's the exact opposite.

Nothing but lies and damn lies.
 
And they have a right to run their own country the way they see fit.

No, they do not. No one has the right to kill any other human being in nonselfdefense. No one has the right to chop anyones nose off. Individuals have rights, not countries. Human rights are not up for negotiation, no matter what ignorant culture you belong to.

The general population does not want us there. That's why the fighting has gone on for nine years. If the majority wanted a change they had plenty of time to implement it.

Who cares what the majority wants?

They don't want our way of life and the biggest lie of all is telling people the Taliban want to change our way of life. Common sense shows it's the exact opposite.

Nothing but lies and damn lies.

The Taliban is not popular at all. They just have a lot of power. It's like in Mao's China, where he said "give me three men in a village and I can take that village". You can do a lot when you have fanatical men on your side and the people don't. The surge worked in Iraq, we should pursue a similar policy in Afghanistan and just get it over with quickly. The Afghan government right now isn't perfect but it's better than the Taliban.
 
No, they do not. No one has the right to kill any other human being in nonselfdefense. No one has the right to chop anyones nose off. Individuals have rights, not countries. Human rights are not up for negotiation, no matter what ignorant culture you belong to.

That wouldn't have happened if we didn't put ideas into young people's minds. Can't you grasp the problem? We go into Afghanistan shooting off our mouth we're there to free the people. And protect them. So young people growing up, like the girl in question, takes us at our word.

"YIPPEE! We're free! The Americans have arrived!"

Unfortunately, there were no Americans around when she had her nose chopped off.

Do you understand the consequences of interfering in other cultures? There are ways to try and change things and the way we're going is not the way.

Who cares what the majority wants?

Maybe you should ask the girl in question.

The Taliban is not popular at all. They just have a lot of power. It's like in Mao's China, where he said "give me three men in a village and I can take that village". You can do a lot when you have fanatical men on your side and the people don't. The surge worked in Iraq, we should pursue a similar policy in Afghanistan and just get it over with quickly. The Afghan government right now isn't perfect but it's better than the Taliban.

The general population does not want change and unless we stay there until all those people grow old and die the old way of life will return as soon as we leave.

Let me give you an example. In southern France the woman are allowed to walk around topless. Let's say a foreign power overtook us and told you your 16 year old daughter was allowed to go out topless. If you resisted or interfered with her you would be arrested. How long would it take for you to accept the ways of the foreign power? If the foreign power left would you continue to allow your daughter to go around topless or insist she conform to the "old ways".

Looking forward to your reply.
 
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