"Preventative Detention"?

Good Luck

New member
WASHINGTON — President Obama told human rights advocates at the White House on Wednesday that he was mulling the need for a “preventive detention” system that would establish a legal basis for the United States to incarcerate terrorism suspects who are deemed a threat to national security but cannot be tried, two participants in the private session said.
http://www.nytimes.com/2009/05/21/us/politics/21obama.html?_r=3&emc=eta1

Looks like another example of more of the same, plus the next step to totalitarianism. Obama has consistently not only reneged on his promises to change government, but also consistently adds to the unconstitutional corruption of his predecessor. He kept the FISA bill in place and added to its powers; actively lied and covered evidence of deliberate governmental interference with the banking system, and now wants to do with U.S. citizens what Bush did with suspected terrorist and combatants. Some friggin "change" we have here.
 
What do you propose we do with them?
What the hell do you think we do with them? If they are U.S. citizens, or even legal U.S. residents, we give them full constitutional protections exactly as we are supposed to.

If they are suspected of criminal activity, the LEAs investigate, find evidence enough to prosecute, get a grand jury indictment, and prosecute.

If we do anything less, we may as well burn the Constitution now and give ourselves over to whatever dictatorship arises.
 
This is a change from the last administration?

SM,

I have to go on the other side on this one. Big surprise huh?

He is talking about suspected terrorists not necessarily real terrorists. Now, I know that you have not been a fan of the Obama administration. Open your mouth one too many times and you might just find yourself incarcerated as a "suspected terrorist" without hope of a trial.

And whatever you do, don't stand out in front of an abortion clinic holding a sign that reads, "Abortion is Murder".

Immie
 
This is a change from the last administration?
That's been my central point the last three threads I have started. Where is this change we can believe in? All I see is more of the same. More pandering to billionaires with our taxes, more trampling on the Constitution.

The only "change" I see is mindless support from those who protested loudest against these same things when they came from Bush.
 
Preventive detention? In other words, punishing someone for what we think they might do?

That is disgusting.
 
That's been my central point the last three threads I have started. Where is this change we can believe in? All I see is more of the same. More pandering to billionaires with our taxes, more trampling on the Constitution.

The only "change" I see is mindless support from those who protested loudest against these same things when they came from Bush.


There is already a thread on this topic:


http://www.justplainpolitics.com/bushisms-obamisms-t18865.html
 
That's been my central point the last three threads I have started. Where is this change we can believe in? All I see is more of the same. More pandering to billionaires with our taxes, more trampling on the Constitution.

The only "change" I see is mindless support from those who protested loudest against these same things when they came from Bush.

And more loud protest from people who supported the same things when they came from Bush. All I have seen so far is that party trumps all for most people who are active politically.
 
Sometimes it looks more like criticism from former Bush supporters is limited to the obvious hypocrisy of supporting ( or carefully ignoring) a policy that was heapingly criticized under Bush. And sometimes it is apparent they are decrying the actual policy - which would BE hypocrisy. And sometimes it is difficult to tell for certain what the aim of the criticism is - other than the fact Obama is not from the "correct" party.

All I can say is it did not take the current exchange of mindless rhetoric to know that party trumps all in partisan politics.
 
What the hell do you think we do with them? If they are U.S. citizens, or even legal U.S. residents, we give them full constitutional protections exactly as we are supposed to.

If they are suspected of criminal activity, the LEAs investigate, find evidence enough to prosecute, get a grand jury indictment, and prosecute.

If we do anything less, we may as well burn the Constitution now and give ourselves over to whatever dictatorship arises.
I agree if we are talking about domestic terrorists here, but I'm under the impression this is about guys we have at Gitmo.
 
I agree if we are talking about domestic terrorists here, but I'm under the impression this is about guys we have at Gitmo.

So as long as they are not american citizens its ok to hold people against their will for extended periods of time based on little or no evidence?
 
So as long as they are not american citizens its ok to hold people against their will for extended periods of time based on little or no evidence?

Non Americans wishing to do harm to us yes it is

AS for the evidence if you are training for a terrorist group, well to me that's all the evidence ya need
 
Non Americans wishing to do harm to us yes it is

AS for the evidence if you are training for a terrorist group, well to me that's all the evidence ya need

If you have evidence that they will do us harm you might have a case. But many of those at Gitmo were brought there because of no such info.

If you have evidence that they were training terrorists or training as a terrorist that is one thing. But are all the detainees under that reasoning?

Check to see how many were brought there because of the uncorroborated information from sources that cannot be checked and may or may not be verifiable.
 
So as long as they are not american citizens its ok to hold people against their will for extended periods of time based on little or no evidence?
We will release them just as we release other prisoners of war: after it is over and back to their native countries.
 
We will release them just as we release other prisoners of war: after it is over and back to their native countries.

Hilarious. They're prisoners of war when you want them to be, and they're "enemy combatants" when you want to torture them. Convenient!
 
Actually it was a direct answer.

I asked "So as long as they are not american citizens its ok to hold people against their will for extended periods of time based on little or no evidence?" and you answered "We will release them just as we release other prisoners of war: after it is over and back to their native countries.".

No you did not answer the question. As long as they are not american citizens its ok to hold people against their will for extended periods of time based on little or no evidence?

The question does not ask when or where they will be released.
 
If you have evidence that they will do us harm you might have a case. But many of those at Gitmo were brought there because of no such info.

If you have evidence that they were training terrorists or training as a terrorist that is one thing. But are all the detainees under that reasoning?

Check to see how many were brought there because of the uncorroborated information from sources that cannot be checked and may or may not be verifiable.
The problem is we are not dealing with "traditional" criminal activity. The military are not over there to do the job of LEOs. They are there, like it or not, as an occupying force whose purpose is to minimize as much as possible insurrectionist and terrorist violence.

Certainly if a person is captured in a firefight, having fired on our troops (and survived) they are by definition, an enemy combatant. In fact, they are technically non-uniformed enemy combatants, which places them outside even the general protections of the Geneva Convention, let alone the U.S. Constitution. In fact, by laws still on international books (including the Geneva Convention) non-uniformed enemy combataants can be summarily executed. Since we are not doing that, then the answer "they will be let go when the farcus is over" is about the best one we have available. They are functionally POWs even though technically they are not. Thus, the answer to this particular class of detainee is, yes, it is OK to keep them locked up indefinitely without trial.

For those detainees captured in a raid, based on intel, then they are not, technically, combatants. But they are not, technically, criminals, either. Being they are not criminals, they do not (nor should they) have the rights we grant criminals being held under indictment in our system. Being they are not enemy combatants, they have more rights than POWs.

Now what SHOULD happen is these people be processed through military tribunal, as the capture and purpose of capture was military in nature and purpose. The military (either by order or by lack of resources - I suspect the former) fell down on the job, and did little nothing to determine the actual status of the detainees. Had they gone through the proper procedure for processing enemy civilians in a combat zone - procedures that have been in place since WWI - none of this crap would be at issue. They could have let go, within a few days, those who were captured but did not have significant evidence of combatant activities, and sent on those who did have evidence against them, and thereby classifying them as enemy combatants, to be treated as such. And what does THIS mean to your base question? The answer is, once again, "yes", with the modification that we do have the obligation to release ASAP through military tribunal anyone who cannot be corroborated as an enemy combatant.
 
Back
Top