Punishment and Penal Substitution

[Kafka]

When rightwing atheists, agnostics, Incels make common cause to ban abortion, it's functionally equivalent to evangelicals opposing abortion.

In this case it wasn't merely equivalence. Trump was pretty pro-choice most of his life and he switched to being pro-Life in order to curry favor with the classic Evangelicals who will always support the Right.

It takes assholes who support abortion bans for reasons other than religion, to get Roe overturned.

Disagree. The war on Roe has been ongoing since 1973 and spearheaded by the Religious Right. It took the placement of religious right figures on the Court to get Roe overturned.

While I agree that indeed this is largely to "control women" but it is DEFINITELY a Religious Right issue and largely driven by the Religious Right.

This board has had Rightwing Buddhists, rightwing Taoists, rightwing atheists, rightwing Incels, and the irreligious Rightwing support abortion bans simply because they think a fetus is a human, and women aren't entitled to reproductive choice

To assume that Roe's overturning was driven more by "atheist" policy than Religious Right is to completely ignore how it actually happened.

The syllogism that Trump was an atheist and Trump got Roe overturned ergo it was driven by atheist policy is absurd on its face. Trump PLAYED TO THE RELIGIOUS RIGHT by pushing to get Roe overturned. Trump himself was pro-Choice before he realized he could tap into that sump of gullibility by mouthing the religious right's mantra.

Honestly I've NEVER heard any atheist suggest abortion was murder and must be banned. I'm sure it must exist but to somehow lay this at the feet of 'atheism" is ridiculous beyond belief.

 

[IBDaMann]

Look at today's situation. Trump is a hate filled dictator. Yet many worship him.

Look at who doesn't even know what a "dictator" is. Hume is a hate-filled poster. Yet many tolerate him.

 

[IBDaMann]

It takes assholes who support abortion bans for reasons other than religion, to get Roe overturned.

[/QUOTE]
It takes the shittiest of immoral, evil people to support the killing of living humans who have not committed any crime. I think all rational adults agree that any society that allows the killing of living humans who have not committed any crime (who have not expressed any desire to die) will collapse in short order, and thus all societies are right to outlaw such killing.

I see that you support the killing of living humans who have not committed any crime and who have not expressed any desire to die. I see that you are among the shittiest of immoral evil people.

 

[IBDaMann]

I think abortion is mostly a religious objection.

Objections don't carry percentages. I am an atheist and I oppose the killing of living humans who have not committed any crime and who have not expressed any desire to die.

I see that you support the killing of living humans who have not committed any crime and who have not expressed any desire to die. I see that you are a shitty, immoral person.

 

[Cypress]

It takes the shittiest of immoral, evil people to support the killing of living humans who have not committed any crime

Thanks for proving my point that it takes rightwing atheists, rightwing agnostics, rightwing Buddhists, rightwing irreligious Incels to force a ban on abortion on citizens of the nation.

 

[Kafka]

Thanks for proving my point that it takes rightwing atheists, rightwing agnostics, rightwing irreligious Incels to force a ban on abortion on citizens of the nation.

^^^^Takes the posting of a single loon (anecdotal evidence) to support his broader point. That's some pretty lax reasoning on display there.

 

[Kafka]

Thanks for proving my point that it takes rightwing atheists, rightwing agnostics, rightwing Buddhists, rightwing irreligious Incels to force a ban on abortion on citizens of the nation.

I find myself GENUINELY curious why you seem to hate atheists so much. You are always on the warpath against atheists. Yet you are an agnostic. Curious why you seem to hold such hate for atheists.

 

[IBDaMann]

Thanks for proving my point that it takes rightwing atheists, rightwing agnostics, rightwing Buddhists, rightwing irreligious Incels to force a ban on abortion on citizens of the nation.

I suppose you're right; it does take the moral majority to ban the immoral predelictions of shitty, evil people.

 

[Cypress]

I suppose you're right; it does take the moral majority to ban the immoral predelictions of shitty, evil people.

Thanks for agreeing that Roe would have never been overturned without atheists, agnostics, Incels, Buddhists, various and sundry irreligious of the rightwing persuasion.

White evangelical Protestants by themselves never could have accomplished it. Polling routinely shows Black Protestants, mainline Protestants, and Catholics favor keeping some form of reproductive choice legal.

 

[Litmus]

penal substitution?

is that like when you're tag teaming some hoes?

 

[Litmus]

No such thing as karma, either.

Fuck around and find out.

 

[Litmus]

I don't think we should feel weak in the knees and grasp for the fainting couch when we read ancient literature that has elements that do not live up to 21st century standards

Sparta comes to mind.

banishing the disfigured is epic.

 

[domer76]

Fuck around and find out.

^Thought ending clichè

 

[Litmus]

^Thought ending clichè

it's a whole new world of considerations, actually.

 

[Cypress]

Sparta comes to mind.

banishing the disfigured is epic.

Jesus hung out with lepers, the diseased, the afflicted.

It's one of the things that makes the Gospel accounts unique in ancient literature.

MAGA morons want to follow Sparta's example and banish the weak and disabled.

 

[Litmus]

Jesus hung out with lepers, the diseased, the afflicted.

It's one of the things that makes the Gospel accounts unique in ancient literature.

MAGA morons want to follow Sparta's example and banish the weak and disabled.

it;s hilary who has a basket of deplorables.

 

[Kafka]

Thanks for agreeing that Roe would have never been overturned without atheists, agnostics, Incels, Buddhists, various and sundry irreligious of the rightwing persuasion.

White evangelical Protestants by themselves never could have accomplished it. Polling routinely shows Black Protestants, mainline Protestants, and Catholics favor keeping some form of reproductive choice legal.

Here's where your reasoning is flawed: The overturning for Roe was NOT done by "popular vote". It was done by SCOTUS which is not elected.

SCOTUS has been the focus of the Religious Right for about 50 years now and it provides the litmus test for both their selection of president as well as that president's selection of justices. It took 50 years to get sufficient of the religious judges in the robes to effect the change. Many of them lied to Congress during their interviews by claiming that Roe was settled law or they espoused an agreement with stare decisis. When they were empaneled they waited until the predictable next abortion case came and they voted as they were expected to by the people who put them into that position (eg pandering to the religious right).

This is pretty obvious from just watching the news the last 50 years.

It seems your hatred of atheists, like your hatred of me, clouds your ability to reason effectively. So when you are challenged on a point you resort to ignore those who challenge you or this stupid gambit of "Thank you for confirming my idea". Instead of honest debate, when you get into your rage hate you lose the ability to discuss a point and prefer to discuss the person or group who is your target of hatred.

Perhaps you could try debating somewhat more dispassionately.

 

[Cypress]

Here's where your reasoning is flawed: The overturning for Roe was NOT done by "popular vote". It was done by SCOTUS which is not elected.

Judges are nominated and approved by politicians, like the atheist Trump, who win popular votes or electoral college votes.

Popular support for a complete and total ban on abortion is only a small minority of the electorate.

White Protestant evangelicals by themselves couldn't possibly force abortion bans on the nation without the support and collision of irreligious conservatives. The laity of other major Protestant and Catholic denominations support some form of legal abortion. Having posted here since 2006, I have run across atheist, Buddhist, agnostic, and irreligious rightwingers who opposed Roe v Wade for reasons that had nothing to do with the bible. They just think fetuses are human beings entitled to civil rights, and that unmarried women should just keep their legs closed.

Roe would not have been overturned if the atheist Donald Trump hadn't had the nearly unprecedented opportunity to appoint 3 SCOTUS justices in just one term, and if he hadn't convinced the remaining pro-choice Republicans in the senate to shut up and rubber stamp his nominees.

 

[Kafka]

Judges are nominated and approved by politicians, like the atheist Trump,

Again, this is flawed reasoning. Trump has been mostly pro-choice his entire life until he ran for POTUS at which point he started to mouth the right words to get the Evangelical vote. So regardless of Trump's status as atheist or believer, he was acting in a way to support the evangelical voters requirements.

Same as pretty much every single GOP nominee for the past 50 years.

Popular support for a complete and total ban on abortion is only a small minority of the electorate.

Agreed. But that group has successfully leveraged their vote for 50 years now to ensure this litmus test is part of the nomination.

White Protestant evangelicals by themselves couldn't possibly force abortion bans on the nation

And, again, it wasn't a popular vote scenario. I'm surprised you are not familiar with SCOTUS.

Roe would not have been overturned if the atheist Donald Trump

This is a disingenuous and dishonest point to make. Just because Trump is probably not religious (you don't necessarily know he is an atheist) does not ipso facto mean he repealed it due to atheism. He got justices in place (as did his predecessor) who would ultimately vote along religious lines. Why do you think Amy Coney Barret was elevated to SCOTUS? SURELY not because you think she is some amazing jurist. It was because she was hardline ultra-Catholic and could be counted on to decide along religious lines. Which she did. Same for many of the other Catholics on the bench like Alito.

hadn't had the nearly unprecedented opportunity to appoint 3 SCOTUS justices in just one term, and if he hadn't convinced the remaining pro-choice Republicans in the senate to shut up and rubber stamp his nominees.

He selected them based on their recommendation from the think tanks that track this sort of thing. An ongoing 50 year long task undertaken solely by the religious right.

Did you not read the news at any time in the last 50 years?

 

[Cypress]

Again, this is flawed reasoning. Trump has been mostly pro-choice his entire life until he ran for POTUS at which point he started to mouth the right words to get the Evangelical vote. So regardless of Trump's status as atheist or believer, he was acting in a way to support the evangelical voters requirements.

Same as pretty much every single GOP nominee for the past 50 years.



Agreed. But that group has successfully leveraged their vote for 50 years now to ensure this litmus test is part of the nomination.



And, again, it wasn't a popular vote scenario. I'm surprised you are not familiar with SCOTUS.





This is a disingenuous and dishonest point to make. Just because Trump is probably not religious (you don't necessarily know he is an atheist) does not ipso facto mean he repealed it due to atheism. He got justices in place (as did his predecessor) who would ultimately vote along religious lines. Why do you think Amy Coney Barret was elevated to SCOTUS? SURELY not because you think she is some amazing jurist. It was because she was hardline ultra-Catholic and could be counted on to decide along religious lines. Which she did. Same for many of the other Catholics on the bench like Alito.



He selected them based on their recommendation from the think tanks that track this sort of thing. An ongoing 50 year long task undertaken solely by the religious right.

Did you not read the news at any time in the last 50 years?

I'm sure that's the understanding you would get if you let cable news and social media do your thinking for you.

I'm interested in getting the right answer. Not the answer one is taught to believe by media personalities.

The biggest determinative factor on abortion is not religion.

Only white Evangelical Protestants support full abortion bans. Majorities of the laity in every other religious demographic support some form of legalized abortion, including Catholics, black Protestants, mainline Protestants.

The biggest determinative factor on abortion is white nationalism.

And as you can see on this board, a lot of white nationalists don't attend church, don't participate in a religious community, and don't really understand Christian teaching or even know the Bible. Though they sometimes try to claim some vague and utterly fake allegiance to Christianty.

What white nationalism is driven by is a sense of white male grievance, and a desire to turn the clock back on minorities and women. And I don't have a shadow of a doubt that those INCEL-ish and toxic masculinity impulses have worked their way into abortion politics.