Questions for the religious

PostmodernProphet said:
so.....1) shouldn't you provide documentation that Jericho didn't exist in the era of Exodus.......2) shouldn't you prove the population of palestine?.......3) shouldn't you prove that Israel did not have a large army.......
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Why aren't you offering proof other than "if the Bible says so, it happened"?

You're getting a theological ass-whoopin' and it's amusing to observe.
 
ThatOwlWoman said:
Heheheheh -- really. That article has been around for quite a long time; he updated it to make it more relevant. He's the founder of Church of All Worlds, based on the religion in the sci-fi book "Stranger in a Strange Land" by Heinlein. We used to be neighbors with one of the co-founders, and have talked to Oberon in real life, although we never met in person. He is still writing and does occasional appearances at various pagan events. Sadly, Morning Glory passed away from cancer.
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Too bad she didn't know Martian, she could have cured herself. I wonder if they cannibalize the bodies of their dead as those who followed the teachings of that church did in Stranger in a Strange Land. I grok that they probably do not.
 
PostmodernProphet said:
out of the five major religions of the world today three share the creation story of Christianity, Judaism, and Islam....
The Hindus believe the universe is eternal and was never created.....
The Buddhists believe the universe is a repeated cycle of births and deaths......that covers about 98% of religious people.......
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Only a specific type of Buddhist would believe in reincarnation. Theravada Buddhists understand that Buddha's teachings didn't touch on any of that, he taught about this life only and not about Gods or Creation.
 
PostmodernProphet said:
because YHWH was not a name that God had given to man prior to Moses.....
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Enosh, the first son of Seth (third son of Adam and Eve) knew God as Yahweh (Jehovah).

Genesis 4:26
Seth also had a son, and he named him Enosh. At that time people began to call on the name of the LORD.
 
PostmodernProphet said:
no.....that name was given to Moses when he asked who he should say sent him......
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Still wrong. The name he gave to Moses was "I AM"... Not Jehovah. Exodus 3:14: God said to Moses, "I AM WHO I AM"; and He said, "Thus you shall say to the sons of Israel, 'I AM has sent me to you.'"…
 
kudzu said:
Probably around ten... Same for me. I think forcing children to believe stories like Jonah drives them away from religion.
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Nah, for me it was the evidence of my eyes. In the Bible when the Spirit came upon Jesus' followers they were able to Speak in Tongues, which allowed them to say something and EVERYONE understood in their own language, but nowadays speaking in tongues is babble-speak only understood by somebody else touched by God who seems to continue to speak as if he was from the 16th century. I remember being frustrated by a being who supposedly knew everything speaking, "Yea I say unto you that if you speak with Me I will tell thee..." So forth. I also was always amazed that either the person speaking in tongues spoke for 10 minutes for a 30 second translation, or the translation was like 20 minutes of ancient English for 42 seconds of tongues-speak where they said "Ashumdelalah" 16 times.

Then the "three in one" frustration was a big player in my huge doubt that began nearly when I first heard it. This played into the Sacrifice story that was also frustrating to me. God, who knows everything and is everywhere sends himself to "die" on the cross knowing that he would rise again in "3 days" that were counted as a full day if any part of it happened in any day... Also this God would know that an eternal spirit can't be killed. Then this God holds a conversation with himself and forsakes himself? I was nonplussed. It just doesn't seem like a sacrifice or even a game if you already know you are going to win. It's like playing chess with a 3 year old who doesn't yet know how the pieces move, how is that a challenge?

I was told that if you even had the "faith" of a mustard seed you could do anything Christ did, like walk on water, heal the sick, etc. Shoot Christ said you could move mountains, I have seen none moved. I've met nobody, and I really do mean nobody at all, that could do any of it. Apparently nobody at all has any faith, not even as much as that tiny mustard seed... Thousands of people pouring forward at our church for healing prayer and their record was O for Thousands of hopefuls... nobody ever was healed... Well, some of them were eventually healed by modern medicine and simply their bodies healing. Nary a blind person could ever see, wheelchairs were still necessary for those who needed them before, nada...

The story of Jonah... That was nothing but a story to me, but if Miracles could happen, then m'eh... that's a pretty normal sounding "miracle"...

Then there were stories of God's seeming uncaring attitude. When kids come out to mock one of his prophets for his baldness and he gets frustrated and curses them, a bear comes and kills all those kids? Really? I thought it said God is love, how is that love?

I can go on and on. So many of these discrepancies between what I saw and what I read/heard led me to just flat tell the people at the church and my mother that i simply didn't believe sometime around 9 years old. Which was a mistake, but that's a whole different story for a different time.
 
Damocles said:
Still wrong. The name he gave to Moses was "I AM"... Not Jehovah. Exodus 3:14: God said to Moses, "I AM WHO I AM"; and He said, "Thus you shall say to the sons of Israel, 'I AM has sent me to you.'"…
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YHWH was the Jewish way of expressing "I am" so that they could avoid using the words themselves, as they believed it was a breach of the commandment "Do not not take the name of the Lord in vain" to even use the words I am......

Enosh, the first son of Seth (third son of Adam and Eve) knew God as Yahweh (Jehovah).
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when the oral traditions that we know as Genesis was finally set down as a written text, stories from various sources were combined in a chronological order......some of those sources used the post-Moses form of the name of God, some used the pre-Moses form of El which simply means God....
 
Damocles said:
Nah, for me it was the evidence of my eyes. In the Bible when the Spirit came upon Jesus' followers they were able to Speak in Tongues, which allowed them to say something and EVERYONE understood in their own language, but nowadays speaking in tongues is babble-speak only understood by somebody else touched by God who seems to continue to speak as if he was from the 16th century. I remember being frustrated by a being who supposedly knew everything speaking, "Yea I say unto you that if you speak with Me I will tell thee..." So forth. I also was always amazed that either the person speaking in tongues spoke for 10 minutes for a 30 second translation, or the translation was like 20 minutes of ancient English for 42 seconds of tongues-speak where they said "Ashumdelalah" 16 times.

Then the "three in one" frustration was a big player in my huge doubt that began nearly when I first heard it. This played into the Sacrifice story that was also frustrating to me. God, who knows everything and is everywhere sends himself to "die" on the cross knowing that he would rise again in "3 days" that were counted as a full day if any part of it happened in any day... Also this God would know that an eternal spirit can't be killed. Then this God holds a conversation with himself and forsakes himself? I was nonplussed. It just doesn't seem like a sacrifice or even a game if you already know you are going to win. It's like playing chess with a 3 year old who doesn't yet know how the pieces move, how is that a challenge?

I was told that if you even had the "faith" of a mustard seed you could do anything Christ did, like walk on water, heal the sick, etc. Shoot Christ said you could move mountains, I have seen none moved. I've met nobody, and I really do mean nobody at all, that could do any of it. Apparently nobody at all has any faith, not even as much as that tiny mustard seed... Thousands of people pouring forward at our church for healing prayer and their record was O for Thousands of hopefuls... nobody ever was healed... Well, some of them were eventually healed by modern medicine and simply their bodies healing. Nary a blind person could ever see, wheelchairs were still necessary for those who needed them before, nada...

The story of Jonah... That was nothing but a story to me, but if Miracles could happen, then m'eh... that's a pretty normal sounding "miracle"...

Then there were stories of God's seeming uncaring attitude. When kids come out to mock one of his prophets for his baldness and he gets frustrated and curses them, a bear comes and kills all those kids? Really? I thought it said God is love, how is that love?

I can go on and on. So many of these discrepancies between what I saw and what I read/heard led me to just flat tell the people at the church and my mother that i simply didn't believe sometime around 9 years old. Which was a mistake, but that's a whole different story for a different time.
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apparently your Christian experience was with a Pentacostal style church......it is sad that extremism turned you away from God.........
 
Interesting

The very words of the ten commandments clearly tells us that the commandments were for the Jewish people ONLY

The hebrew god never brought the goyim or their ancestors out of Egypt! Ex 20:2 "I am the LORD your God, who brought you out of the land of Egypt, out of the house of slavery."
The hebrew god has not given the gtoyim the promised land of Canaan! Ex 20:12 "Honor your father and your mother, that your days may be prolonged in the land which the Lord your God gives you"
Since the Sabbath is a sign between hebrews god and fleshly Israel, there is nothing requiring goyim to keep it! (Ex. 31:13,17; Ezek. 20:12, 20)
If it was intended for all mankind, then why specifically say "strangers within your gates". Obviously the goyim (strangers) were never required at any point in earth history to keep the Sabbath or commandements!

And why are the goyims version of the ten commandment not like the hebrew ten commandments?


http://www.beliefnet.com/faiths/2007/03/chart-comparing-the-ten-commandments.aspx
 
guno said:
Interesting

The very words of the ten commandments clearly tells us that the commandments were for the Jewish people ONLY
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odd then that God said this about the Ten Commandments.....
Exodus 4:5 See, I have taught you decrees and laws as the Lord my God commanded me, so that you may follow them in the land you are entering to take possession of it. 6 Observe them carefully, for this will show your wisdom and understanding to the nations, who will hear about all these decrees and say, “Surely this great nation is a wise and understanding people.” 7 What other nation is so great as to have their gods near them the way the Lord our God is near us whenever we pray to him? 8 And what other nation is so great as to have such righteous decrees and laws as this body of laws I am setting before you today?
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there is nothing requiring goyim to keep it!
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on the other hand Jesus specifically said we should.....
Matthew 7:6 He answered and said to them, Well has Esaias prophesied of you hypocrites, as it is written, This people honors me with their lips, but their heart is far from me. 7 However, in vain do they worship me, teaching for doctrines the commandments of men. 8 For laying aside the commandment of God, you hold the tradition of men, as the washing of pots and cups: and many other such like things you do. 9 And he said to them, Full well you reject the commandment of God, that you may keep your own tradition.
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And why are the goyims version of the ten commandment not like the hebrew ten commandments?
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interesting point.....the Jewish version, the Catholic/Lutheran version, and most of the other Christian churches version treat the commandments differently....
The Jewish version says the first commandment is I am the Lord your God........the RCA/Lutherans don't use this as #1, since it doesn't actually call for any action.....they call it an introduction.......but for some reason they have two separate "do not covet" commandments......Calvin found that problematic, especially since the Exodus and Deuteronomy versions don't list "coveting" in the same order.....he viewed "have no other gods" and "make no idols" as two separate commandments, unlike the Catholics and Lutherans.....

so probably the most interesting fact about the Ten Commandments is that they are actually the Nine Commandments.......
 
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