quitter....

[PostmodernProphet]

I also mentioned cardiovascular disease. I said I wasn't certain about the link between nicotine and cancer because it's been years since I read that article.

You should be concerned, however. A quick search gave me 180 hits (original research). Here's one. I'm not going to cut and paste the entire search results, one by one.

Pharmacol Res. 2009 Nov;60(5):361-8. Epub 2009 Jun 24.

Is nicotine a key player or spectator in the induction and progression of cardiovascular disorders?
Balakumar P, Kaur J.

Department of Physiology, University of Montreal, Quebec, Canada. pbala2006@gmail.com

Abstract
Cigarette smoking is common in societies worldwide and a growing body of evidence suggests that chronic cigarette smoking may affect the structure and function of cardiovascular system. The chronic exposure to high levels of nicotine, a major component of cigarette smoking, has been observed to play a pathogenic role in the induction and progression of cardiovascular disorders including cardiomyopathy and peripheral vascular disease. Nicotine alters the function of vascular endothelium, initiates the adhesion cascade and stimulates the vascular inflammatory events to induce atherosclerosis and hypertension. Moreover, nicotine has been noted to induce direct coronary spasm and ischemia, which develop coronary artery disease and myocardial infarction. In addition, nicotine stimulates the excessive release of impulses from sinoatrial node that may account for the induction of cardiac arrhythmia. The present review critically discussed the possible detrimental role of chronic nicotine exposure in cardiac and vascular endothelial dysfunction. Moreover, the signaling mechanisms involved in the pathogenesis of nicotine exposure-induced cardiovascular dysfunction have been discussed. In addition, the pharmacological interventions to ameliorate chronic nicotine exposure-induced cardiovascular abnormalities have been delineated.

PMID: 19559087 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]

I doubt that there has ever been a study on the effects of nicotine in the absence of smoking....I recall reading an article back in January regarding a health specialist who had been particularly vocal in speaking out against electronic cigarettes.....to prove his point he arranged an experiment in which he hooked himself up to monitoring equipment.....first, he smoked a cigarette and demonstrated the increase in his blood pressure while doing so......then he vaped an electronic cigarette.......he was disconcerted by the fact that his blood pressure did not increase as it did while smoking.....his initial reaction was that vaping was a fraud and the user did not actually get nicotine from an electronic cigarette......so he arranged further tests and found use of an electronic cigarette did in fact show the presence of nicotine in the blood system.....his conclusion was that the matter needed to be studied.......

what frustrates me is the reaction some seem to have, when faced with the possibility that people may actually stop doing something which is known to kill them......by complaining that they have done so......

 

[Thorn]

I doubt that there has ever been a study on the effects of nicotine in the absence of smoking....I recall reading an article back in January regarding a health specialist who had been particularly vocal in speaking out against electronic cigarettes.....to prove his point he arranged an experiment in which he hooked himself up to monitoring equipment.....first, he smoked a cigarette and demonstrated the increase in his blood pressure while doing so......then he vaped an electronic cigarette.......he was disconcerted by the fact that his blood pressure did not increase as it did while smoking.....his initial reaction was that vaping was a fraud and the user did not actually get nicotine from an electronic cigarette......so he arranged further tests and found use of an electronic cigarette did in fact show the presence of nicotine in the blood system.....his conclusion was that the matter needed to be studied.......

what frustrates me is the reaction some seem to have, when faced with the possibility that people may actually stop doing something which is known to kill them......by complaining that they have done so......

Of course there have been such studies! For decades, in fact.

If you work with nicotine in the lab, you're required to glove and mask up, and open even the tiniest vial under a fume hood. It's also strongly recommended that the hood's glass barrier be lowered to further protect the researcher. Despite its widespread use, this is very, very scary stuff. The MSDS is quite explicit. The amount you'd get in a cigarette isn't enough in itself to have the kind of toxicity that the liquid form has, and if you ate a cigarette, it's probably the other properties that would make you expel it.

I quit cold turkey just under 15 years ago. No substitutes, no aids, no anything except the determination not to go through the first week, then three weeks, etc., again. When a friend commented on how much healthier my skin looked, well, that further reinforced my vow to never smoke again! I never backslid, knowing that there's no such thing as just a little, and now, although I'd rather not be around cigarette smoke, it certainly doesn't elicit any craving.

 

[PostmodernProphet]

I quit cold turkey just under 15 years ago. No substitutes, no aids, no anything except the determination not to go through the first week, then three weeks, etc., again. When a friend commented on how much healthier my skin looked, well, that further reinforced my vow to never smoke again! I never backslid, knowing that there's no such thing as just a little, and now, although I'd rather not be around cigarette smoke, it certainly doesn't elicit any craving.

remind me to make burnt offerings at your alter on a regular basis....

 

[PostmodernProphet]

If you work with nicotine in the lab, you're required to glove and mask up, and open even the tiniest vial under a fume hood.....The amount you'd get in a cigarette isn't enough in itself to have the kind of toxicity that the liquid form has, and if you ate a cigarette, it's probably the other properties that would make you expel it.

at what mg level per ml.....the level in the eliquid we use to vape is approximately the same as that in a single Marlborough or less.....I started at 24mg in January, brought it down to 12 and am now beginning to work at 6.....

 

[FUCK THE POLICE]

Hardly ignorant. I'm a practicing neuroscientist.

The pwnage! I cuts so deep!

 

[FUCK THE POLICE]

I thought vaporizers were banned as drug paraphernalia?

 

[PostmodernProphet]

I thought vaporizers were banned as drug paraphernalia?

vaporizers powerful enough to use with illegal drugs probably are....

 

[Mott the Hoople]

So, I may have mentioned that I quit smoking in January.....switched to an electronic personal vaporizer and get my nicotine in a smoke free way.....I was so impressed with the system that I started selling them, got my first shipment in from China last week and now I have made my first sales....(no internet sales intended, so this isn't a sales pitch)......

if any of you are interested in quitting, I have put a ton of research into these and can point you to the best sources for hardware and liquid.....

Congrats man. Anyway you can find to quit is a good way. I was a 2.5 pack a day smoker when I quit, cold turkey, back in 93 and had been smoking since I was 15. It was the hardest thing I ever did. Best of luck to you!!

 

[Mott the Hoople]

Well, actually, I don't think that non-tobacco sources of nicotine are nearly as harmful as tobacco sources. But it's certainly no great triumph.

And, also, I believe that PMP may have just bought into a multi-level marketing scam. If you want to just take in nicotine without tobacco, buy nicorrette or one of the other products.

Yes and no. I mean yes you may be right about the multi-level marketing and you are certainly right about nicotene but if it can help you quit the ciggerette addiction by weening you off then it's a good product.

 

[Canceled1]

lol....as usual you demonstrate your ignorance through your assumptions.....the personal vaporizer is superior to other methods of nicotine substitution, primarily because it duplicates all of the aspects of smoking.....you don't need to deal with substituting chewing gum for the social aspects of smoking.....it feels like smoking, it looks like smoking, it taste's BETTER than smoking (yesterday I was vaping a blend of Apricot Brandy and Menthol, the day before, Spiced Rum).......it's also cheaper than smoking....the system I sell allows people to refill their own cartidges with any eliquid out there.....I use about 5 to 10ml a week.....you can buy eliquid online from a hundred different places at costs ranging down from $1/ml including shipping....do the math compared to $5 a pack for cigarettes....

and, since I buy my hardware directly from the factory in China and my eliquid is mixed to my recipes in California how do you draw "multi-level" conclusions.....

if you would rather do your own research, start here...
http://www.e-cigarette-forum.com/forum/

Congratulations on quitting smoking cigarettes. No matter what the little dweeb says it is a huge accomplishment.

 

[Thorn]

at what mg level per ml.....the level in the eliquid we use to vape is approximately the same as that in a single Marlborough or less.....I started at 24mg in January, brought it down to 12 and am now beginning to work at 6.....

What is available for research is pure liquid, not a solution. The density is 1.01 g/ml. For use in "standards", which I've described elsewhere, a solution is available at 10 mg/ml. That standard is used only to determine the nicotine concentration in a sample that's being evaluated, and gives a comparison of known quantity.

I checked out the supplier; apparently I was a bit lacking in my recollection of required safety equipment. Someone working with this stuff also has to wear a full face mask and respirator.

Even without cigarette smoking, nicotine is be of great interest to researchers because of the significant role that acetylcholine plays, particularly in the brain where an abundance of nicotinic receptors is found.

 

[Mott the Hoople]

then isn't it obvious I have quit the other product?......that product was tobacco, the burning of which produces smoke.....smoke from the burning of tobacco causes cancer......nicotine, an ingredient of the product I switched to, does not cause cancer......I have, inarguably, quit smoking......any further comments?......

Actually you're quite wrong there. Nicotene shares many addictive properties of cocaine. It passes rapidly through the alveoli of the lungs and travels straight to the brains pleasure centers where it causes a rapid release of dopamine leading to quick and intense addiction.

Nicotene is also quite a bit more toxic than cocaine (to say the least) as well as being classified as a class A carginogen by both IARC and OSHA. In terms of toxicology Nicotene is nasty shit. The nicotene you recieve in any nicotene product is extremely diluted (a typical cigerrette only has a few milligrams of nicotene). In its pure form nicotene is acutely toxic and has a toxicology similiar to cyanide (that's no exageration dude, it don't take much of pure nicotene to kill you dead.). In fact, as a hazmat manager I've managed its disposal. EPA requires nicotene to be managed as a "P-Listed" hazardous waste, which are the most dangerous forms of acutely hazardous chemical waste (Nicotene is regulated and listed by EPA as a P075 hazardous waste. This places it in the same regulatory category as Cyanide, Endrin and Sodium Azide). In fact it is considered so acutely toxic that the only permitted treatment standard for waste nicotene is incineration. It's completely prohibited from being treated and landfilled, it's that toxic.

So though I can see where this system removes some of the other toxic and carcineogenic compounds in tobacco such as benzene and cadmium, don't kid your self that this is a safe replacement for smoking cigerettes. It is not.

Used wisely as a system to ramp down your nicotene addiction prior to quiting all together I can see where this would be a very usefull device.

 

[Mott the Hoople]

yes, if you drink a concentration of nicotine suspended in a liquid it can kill you......but then, I'm not suggesting you drink it, any more than I would have suggested you chew up and swallow a pack of cigarettes (which would have had the same result)......in addition, it is not wise to attach a hundred nicotine patches to your body simultaneously.....

you are speaking of the relationship between smoking and cancer.....irrelevant......I am not smoking......in fact, I chose this product specifically because it didn't involve smoking......

if you had some information indicating that nicotine vapor was hazardous to your health (and I know you do not) your comments might be timely.....as it is, it is nothing more than ignorant scare mongering......

You mean information like this?

http://www.worldofmolecules.com/disease/nicotine.htm


Nicotene is toxic via the following routes of entry. Oral (ingestion), Inhalation, and Skin absorption. With inhalation it does not matter if the nicotene is present as a smoke or a vapor (which are essentially the same).

Nicotene has the following toxic properties.

Lethal dose in humans is estimated at 30 to 60 mg (0.5 to 1.0 mg/kg) by either inhalation or oral routes of entry.

The LD50 oral (Dog) is 9.2 mg/kg

It's work place exposure by OSHA is limited to 0.5 mg/m3 on an 8 hour time weighted average (TWA)

 

[Mott the Hoople]

then you should be aware that there is no evidence nicotine causes cancer......what is your excuse for your post?.....

Not an accurate statement. It has not been confirmed as a carcinogen in humans or animal studies though it is certainly a suspected carcinogen in those same studies. Nor does that adress nicotenes toxic properties at extremely low levels.

 

[Mott the Hoople]

at what mg level per ml.....the level in the eliquid we use to vape is approximately the same as that in a single Marlborough or less.....I started at 24mg in January, brought it down to 12 and am now beginning to work at 6.....

I'm pretty sure you mean 24 ug. 24 mg is pretty close to a lethal does. To put those unit in perspective. mg is for "milligram" and is equivalent to one part per million exposure. A ug is a "micogram" and is equivelent to one part per billion. The fact that part per billion levels of nicotene have such substantial physiological affects would be what we call in the hazmat field "A BIG RED FLAG!"

 

[PostmodernProphet]

Actually you're quite wrong there.

Are you calling the American Heart Association liars?......(see quote above).....they say that nicotine is not carcinogenic.....

"Nicotine itself is not carcinogenic, according to the International Agency for Research on Cancer, but is implicated in heart disease."
(quoted from http://jnci.oxfordjournals.org/cgi/content/full/91/6/502)

"Nicotine is not in itself carcinogenic, but has been shown to be co-carcinogenic
with benzo(a)pyrene [also found in tobacco smoke] in causing skin cancer in mice"
(quoted from http://arjournals.annualreviews.org/doi/abs/10.1146/annurev.me.37.020186.000321)

In conclusion, while nicotine itself is not carcinogenic it is shown to be co-carcinogenic with other chemicals, including those found in cigarette smoke. Once a person has lung cancer, nicotine can interfere with body's natural ability (as well as the ability of cancer fighting drugs) to get rid of the cancer.
(See http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/7848904)

To answer your question in short, based on the current studies, nicotine by itself, as in a skin patch, does not cause lung cancer.

 

[Damocles]

I'm pretty sure you mean 24 ug. 24 mg is pretty close to a lethal does. To put those unit in perspective. mg is for "milligram" and is equivalent to one part per million exposure. A ug is a "micogram" and is equivelent to one part per billion. The fact that part per billion levels of nicotene have such substantial physiological affects would be what we call in the hazmat field "A BIG RED FLAG!"

When I started I used 21mg patches, then to 14, then to 7.

Yes, all 21 at once would make you quite ill (let alone 24), but he's talking over a period of 24 hours.

 

[PostmodernProphet]

I'm pretty sure you mean 24 ug. 24 mg is pretty close to a lethal does.

no, I don't.....I am talking about the number of milligrams of nicotine in a milliliter of PG.....as you can see, that's the way it is sold....
http://mstsbakery.com/product_info.php?products_id=296?osCsid=69a131e49ccb75a17d08dd28f2fc1fd6

obviously we are talking about two different things.....here for example...

The average habitual smokeless tobacco user will receive 130-250 mg nicotine per day, compared with 180 mg for a person with a pack-a-day cigarette habit.

Read more: http://www.faqs.org/health/topics/19/Smokeless-tobacco.html#ixzz0oQ1Eghx0

I go through 5ml of eliquid a week....at a strength of 24mg/ml I would be getting 1/7th of 120mg per day compared to 180mg a day smoking a pack of cigarettes......and then only if I were receiving 100% of the available nicotine, which is unlikely.....

I have on occasion gotten a drop of eliquid on my lip if a cartidge leaked (one of the reasons I sell nonleaking cartomizers instead of the cartridge style).....the sensation is akin to using a snus or snuff packet.....no pain, no nausea, and I can clearly attest, it did not kill me......

 

[FUCK THE POLICE]

Congratulations on quitting smoking cigarettes. No matter what the little dweeb says it is a huge accomplishment.

It is not an accomplishment to "overcome" your addiction by doing nothing more than changing the route of delivery for the drug. This is like saying you've "overcome" heroine addiction because now you're snorting instead of shooting.

 

[FUCK THE POLICE]

Yes and no. I mean yes you may be right about the multi-level marketing and you are certainly right about nicotene but if it can help you quit the ciggerette addiction by weening you off then it's a good product.

Well I think that PMP wants to be using it permanently as a cigarette replacement. While I don't think it's as dangerous because it doesn't contain all of the other harmful ingredients of cigarettes, and I'm pretty sure that you can't get lung cancer from it (which was always told to me as the greatest danger of cigarettes), I believe that Thorn said that it carries all of the same cardiovascular problems.

It would be better if he'd quit cold turkey or cut down on the amount of nicotine he's ingesting slowly until he's not using it anymore.