Rationing and long lines

belme1201 said:
People in those countries support their system by over 90% when compared to the US system. I have family in the UK and Germany who think our system is cruel and nuts.
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I moved here from Canada and was appalled at the state of the health care system. I still am, all these years later.
 
The time for debate is over.

There are dozens of countries that have some form of universal medical. Every one of those countries had the same "Pay or Suffer" system as the US and not one of those countries want to return to a "Pay or Suffer" system.

What ever the negative side may be not one country has reverted back. Not one. What does that say? There is only one conclusion any logical person can draw.

Whether it's the German model or the French model or the Canadian model or the Australian model or any of dozens of other models people have found that even the worst universal system is better than the "Pay or Suffer" system.

The bottom line being, start anywhere. Pick any current system as a model. It will be better to live with a not-so-perfect system while people "debate" than to keep the present system while people "debate" because "debate" is just a word for postpone.

Serious debates could have and should have started 15 years ago when Hillary first brought it up. But nothing was done. There was no debate because the Repubs didn't want any type of universal system. They didn't want any change so they thought if they simply ignored debate the issue would go away.

Wrong guess! They blew their chance to implement a system of their choice. They refused to offer input for 15 years so now their input is neither wanted nor needed.
 
TuTu Monroe said:
Prove it.
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The Present
Mayo Clinic, Jacksonville,FL 4+ months for orthopedic surgery.
Regular MD(GP) appointment, except for emergencies, normally 4-5weeks. Emergency? "Call 9-11" Rates?? How High the Moon? 4 classes of Dr. appts.
$134 for about 20 minutes with the Dr. for Class 3 which is more often than any other class unless you complain.

London, Summer, 2003
9 am call with problem? to National Health Svc. "Call St. James Hosp"., "Can you be here at 1:30 this afternoon?" $100 charge to credit card for enrollment in system. Visit with Dr., "everything OK". 6 months later back home, $36 check from National Health Service for unused portion. The first and only check I ever received from anyone or anything involved with any health related entity. Needless to say, I'm sold on Public Health.
 
belme1201 said:
The Present
Mayo Clinic, Jacksonville,FL 4+ months for orthopedic surgery.
Regular MD(GP) appointment, except for emergencies, normally 4-5weeks. Emergency? "Call 9-11" Rates?? How High the Moon? 4 classes of Dr. appts.
$134 for about 20 minutes with the Dr. for Class 3 which is more often than any other class unless you complain.

London, Summer, 2003
9 am call with problem? to National Health Svc. "Call St. James Hosp"., "Can you be here at 1:30 this afternoon?" $100 charge to credit card for enrollment in system. Visit with Dr., "everything OK". 6 months later back home, $36 check from National Health Service for unused portion. The first and only check I ever received from anyone or anything involved with any health related entity. Needless to say, I'm sold on Public Health.
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Wow. You'd be sold on private insurance if you had my coverage, especially my dental coverage.

At least we know you come cheaply.
 
Damocles said:
Wow. You'd be sold on private insurance if you had my coverage, especially my dental coverage.

At least we know you come cheaply.
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I don't get your point. I have private(BCBS) insurance for my wife, neither of us has dental. Until Medicare, no one ever paid for my insurance but me.
The reply is a comparison of waiting times demanded in the post to which I replied. By the way, the hospital in London was beautiful and the Dr. was excellent for far less than it would have cost me here. Medically, everybody comes cheaper there, even you. I'm still sold.
 
Damo is still one of the few non government employees with good health care benefits from his employer.
Most of us are not so fortunate.
 
belme1201 said:
I don't get your point. I have private(BCBS) insurance for my wife, neither of us has dental. Until Medicare, no one ever paid for my insurance but me.
The reply is a comparison of waiting times demanded in the post to which I replied. By the way, the hospital in London was beautiful and the Dr. was excellent for far less than it would have cost me here. Medically, everybody comes cheaper there, even you. I'm still sold.
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I just don't think one experience would "sell" me on anything. Especially after LadyT's story of her broken nose while in London.

But I was just talking about that one experience "selling" you. And it came very cheaply. "The first time I ever got a check.."
 
Damocles said:
I just don't think one experience would "sell" me on anything. Especially after LadyT's story of her broken nose while in London.

But I was just talking about that one experience "selling" you. And it came very cheaply. "The first time I ever got a check.."
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When was the last time you got a check for a credit balance from a doctor, drug company, BCBS or any other medical company?
I have been through a lot with the US medical industry while going through my wife's cancer treatment. I can tell you first hand, fiscally it's a horror. Confusion is the rule not the exception. For example, why should I pay 1/3 the price overseas for the same drug than if I bought it in the US?
How many Brits, Germans, or Frenchmen are forced to declare bankruptcy as a result of medical problems? It's the leading cause for bankruptcy in the good ol' USA. You're happy with the system, great! Do you pay for your own?
I always did, as well as for my employees, and still do for my wife's and part of my own. I have plenty of experience with the system, I hope, for your own sake, you never have to experience it
 
belme1201 said:
When was the last time you got a check for a credit balance from a doctor, drug company, BCBS or any other medical company?
I have been through a lot with the US medical industry while going through my wife's cancer treatment. I can tell you first hand, fiscally it's a horror. Confusion is the rule not the exception. For example, why should I pay 1/3 the price overseas for the same drug than if I bought it in the US?
How many Brits, Germans, or Frenchmen are forced to declare bankruptcy as a result of medical problems? It's the leading cause for bankruptcy in the good ol' USA. You're happy with the system, great! Do you pay for your own?
I always did, as well as for my employees, and still do for my wife's and part of my own. I have plenty of experience with the system, I hope, for your own sake, you never have to experience it
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I get them consistently from my insurance, hence my assertion you would be "sold".

Anyway, the story related by LadyT was quite a different experience. Considering she supports government insurance programs it isn't likely she was lying. You were lucky that you didn't have to endure what she did while she was there. If she comes back maybe she'll relate it to you, or you can search it out. It was unpleasant.

I didn't say I was "happy" with anything, just your "The first time I ever got a check" story is sadly limited to one experience with a system that we can improve on. Please find me a thread where I suggest we do "nothing" at all. Then read what I actually suggest and you may be able to hold an adult conversation that doesn't start off on a false premise.
 
Damocles said:
I get them consistently from my insurance, hence my assertion you would be "sold".

Anyway, the story related by LadyT was quite a different experience. Considering she supports government insurance programs it isn't likely she was lying. You were lucky that you didn't have to endure what she did while she was there. If she comes back maybe she'll relate it to you, or you can search it out. It was unpleasant.

I didn't say I was "happy" with anything, just your "The first time I ever got a check" story is sadly limited to one experience with a system that we can improve on. Please find me a thread where I suggest we do "nothing" at all. Then read what I actually suggest and you may be able to hold an adult conversation that doesn't start off on a false premise.
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"Please find me" where I said you would do nothing. The check is only one of a line of MY experiences, this one pleasant. I don't know LadyT's story and I did not say she was lying. I'm sure many have had worse experiences than mine. The false premise is in your mind.
I listed but a few of the reasons I question our system based on MY OWN experience, you reply with only the suggestion of a third party anecdote and nothing of your own. I mention waiting times, bankruptcy as a result of ill health, high costs, drug price variations between venues and you come back with nothing at all.
I support a single pay system as a result of my experiences and what I see and have learned from my children of other, what I consider better systems than ours. I'm sorry if that bothers you. Profit and the resulting greed do not belong as part of a basic right. That's an opinion, I have mine, you have yours, that's what makes horse racing.
("Adult" is as "adult" does.)
 
One major fact is that medical costs are either number 1 or 2 reason for personal bankruptcies in the USA.

Another fact is that many young couples do not marry so that they can have medicaid health care for their child.
Both before and after birth.
This should be an issue to the self proclaimed religious right.
 
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