Real Middle-Income Tax Relief

Mottleydude said:
Dude, you are saying that. You are saying that we should eliminate capital gains tax. That's a pretty emphatic statement that invested income is of more value then productive income. Like I said, you haven't thought this through.
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I did think this through, I already told you that I don't give a fuck what you think is fair.
 
Mottleydude said:
Yea well you're probably also one of the first to whine when the roads are full of pot holes, you classes are taught by idiots cause the schools can't afford to pay top minds to do the job and bitch and moan when you have to stand in line at the post office.

If you don't like payinig taxes then try and live with out government services.
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I got a newsflash for ya... My roads are already full of pot holes, because I live in Alabama, where the state squanders it's tax money on entitlements for the poor, instead of investing in the infrastructure. Every public school in America is currently being taught by idiot liberals, who feel compelled to brainwash our kids into liberal theocracy from kindergarten through 12th grade. And last time I went to the post office, I waited 45 minutes to buy one stamp, because they had removed the self-service stamp machine.

To be honest, I would LOVE to live without government services! Let municipalities and communities worry about filling their own pot holes, do it with the property tax they already collect... let free market capitalism compete with public (government) schools, and watch our children get better grades consistently every year.... and let Fed-Ex or UPS handle mail services and step back and watch how much better (and cheaper) they do it than the U.S. Postal Service!

There is not one thing a liberal can ever name, which government does better than the private sector could do. The ONLY exception I think, would be the military, and that is because of the outstanding job being done by people who had the conviction to serve their country. Other than that, the government generally does a piss poor job of it, compared to the private sector... yet... here are all these moronic pinheads, clamoring for more and more government control of our lives! Turn it ALL over to the Government, because the Government has proven to be an efficient and effective means to deal with so many problems, right?
 
Dixie said:
There is not one thing a liberal can ever name, which government does better than the private sector could do. The ONLY exception I think, would be the military, and that is because of the outstanding job being done by people who had the conviction to serve their country. Other than that, the government generally does a piss poor job of it, compared to the private sector... yet... here are all these moronic pinheads, clamoring for more and more government control of our lives! Turn it ALL over to the Government, because the Government has proven to be an efficient and effective means to deal with so many problems, right?
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That's because "protecting" us is what the constitution states we elect them to do, so that we may pursue "life, liberty, and happiness. We were never supposed to elect them to clothe, house, doctor, and feed us.
 
wilton said:
1. It's not arbitrary. It would have a specific intent.

2. It's a pretty large group of people... 50% of American households.
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It doesn't matter. You're argument doesn't make sense. What eliminating capital gains tax does is unfairly shifts taxation on to those who's income in not derived from investment income.

Let me give you an example.

I'm a contractor. I go out and I do some jobs and makes some money. Let's say I generate about $30,000 net profit. Tax rate on that would be about 30%

Now let's say an investor cashes in some stocks he bought and realizes $30,000 in profit. According to your plan he gets that scott free. No taxes.

Now they have both made $30,000 in profits but you're trying to tell me that it's fair to tax the contractor and not the investor? Bullshit! Not only is that irrational it's grossly unfair to the contractor who must pick up the burden of the investors taxes. You either didn't think this through or you honestly believe that investors are of more value to society than anyone else and therefore their derived income/profits should not be taxed.

You sir are the one committing class warfare. Stupid regressive taxation policies like these can only result in a handfull of plutocrats owning everything while the rest of us eat shit.

What's you next bright idea, eliminating the Sherman anti-trust act?
 
Dixie said:
I got a newsflash for ya... My roads are already full of pot holes, because I live in Alabama, where the state squanders it's tax money on entitlements for the poor, instead of investing in the infrastructure. Every public school in America is currently being taught by idiot liberals, who feel compelled to brainwash our kids into liberal theocracy from kindergarten through 12th grade. And last time I went to the post office, I waited 45 minutes to buy one stamp, because they had removed the self-service stamp machine.

To be honest, I would LOVE to live without government services! Let municipalities and communities worry about filling their own pot holes, do it with the property tax they already collect... let free market capitalism compete with public (government) schools, and watch our children get better grades consistently every year.... and let Fed-Ex or UPS handle mail services and step back and watch how much better (and cheaper) they do it than the U.S. Postal Service!

There is not one thing a liberal can ever name, which government does better than the private sector could do. The ONLY exception I think, would be the military, and that is because of the outstanding job being done by people who had the conviction to serve their country. Other than that, the government generally does a piss poor job of it, compared to the private sector... yet... here are all these moronic pinheads, clamoring for more and more government control of our lives! Turn it ALL over to the Government, because the Government has proven to be an efficient and effective means to deal with so many problems, right?
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Oh Dixie I can name lots of things that the Government does better than the private sector and that's why they are doing it.

Our national education system, our highway system, can you honestly tell me that you'd feel more secure with our national defense in the hands of private sector mercenaries then with the US Army/Airforce/Marines/Navy? Give me a break Dixie.

And besides, that's not really the issue here. The issue is one of fairness. Income is income is income, whether it's from capital gains or business profits or wages. Why is derived invested income so much more valuable than business profits or wages that it should not be taxed while the others are?

I mean at least be consistent here. If you're going to eliminate capital gains tax, why not eliminate pay roll taxes and income taxes? Wouldn't that be fair?
 
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Threedee said:
Because derived income can carry you beyond retirement years while productive income cannot.
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Oh really? How can one derive income if one doesn't at first produce wealth? Please explain that to me. Son, you have it ass backwards. Those who produce wealth are the most important people to our society. Not that the investor class doesn't play an important part in helping to produce wealth but they are just part of the whole, but the point is, investment alone does not produce wealth. Producing goods and services and exchanging those goods and services for profits are what produce wealth.
 
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wilton said:
I did think this through, I already told you that I don't give a fuck what you think is fair.
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Well obviously you don't give a fuck about what would be fair. If you think that it's ok for a handfull of people to own everything because their to important to be taxed....that taxes are only for the little people who stain themselves by entering into commerce and running businesses or ewww....actually working, those damned filthy peasants, then that's you're perogative.

But I aint gonna let a bunch of free loaders get away with it. If I have to pay 30% in taxes for what I earn and you're making the same money as me then god damnit you're going to pay 30% taxes too and I don't care how you earned that income and if you think that's class warfare then that's just tough.
 
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Topspin said:
Democrats tax like Cheney hunts, shoot in the face and fill in the excuses later.
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Maybe, but you have to admit, eliminating capital gains tax is unfair unless you're going to eliminte other forms of income taxation such as the payroll tax.

Wouldn't increasing the amount one can write off on their taxes from capital losses, from investing, be a much fairer method? Just as one can write off business losses?
 
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tinfoil said:
So it's better that people don't have the income at all! what a fucking idiotic argument
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It's best that we fight the recession. It's good if we balance the budget. It's awful if we go into debt spending on programs like tax cuts that don't fight the recession.

WHAT A FUCKING IDIOTIC ARGUMENT
 
wilton said:
I don't think the current or the former leaders of the federal government really care about running a public debt, recession or not. They're going to do it either way. The current leaders most certainly don't care how large it gets.

Also, as bank deposits goes up so does the amount of money banks are capable of loaning. BAM, look at that, more credit in a market that's having a credit crisis.

I also think that this money would be more effective if you DON'T run it through the largest bureaucracy on the planet, let alone the fact that its our money first anyway.
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http://krugman.blogs.nytimes.com/2009/01/05/is-obama-relying-too-much-on-tax-cuts/

Let’s lay out the basics here. Other things equal, public investment is a much better way to provide economic stimulus than tax cuts, for two reasons. First, if the government spends money, that money is spent, helping support demand, whereas tax cuts may be largely saved. So public investment offers more bang for the buck. Second, public investment leaves something of value behind when the stimulus is over.
 
Mottleydude said:
Exactly. Capital gains should be taxed at the exact same rate as income. Anything is just incredibly unfair.
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The funny thing about this is that the capital gains tax was originally seperated from the normal income tax so that it could be taxed at a HIGHER rate, because taxing unearned income was considered more just.
 
Dixie said:
I got a newsflash for ya... My roads are already full of pot holes, because I live in Alabama, where the state squanders it's tax money on entitlements for the poor, instead of investing in the infrastructure.
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Alabama has the lowest taxes of any US state and some of the weakest entitlements.
 
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