Reality: Homosexual Marriage

Dixie said:
The ERA didn't get ratified because only a small minority felt it was needed. The same would not be the case with an amendment to define marriage. I think you underestimate how many people are actively opposed to Gay Marriage.

And you can talk about "trends" all you like... This is a left-leaning libertarian-dominated board, and you've not changed a single mind on the issue. You will need to change a majority of minds in this country, to stop a constitutional amendment. Given the fact you can't even change the minds of moderates on a liberal/libertarian message board, I think you've got a LOT of work to do, especially in the Bible Belt, where opposition to Gay Marriage is upwards of 90% or more. I mean, even by your own biased polling, you can barely muster a majority in CALIFORNIA! ....You got a LOT of work to do!
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So you think my talk of trends revolves around the people on this board?

And who are these "moderates" on this board that you refer to? The main ones objecting are you, SM, and PMP. You would be hard pressed to call them moderates at a John Birch Society meeting.

The polls continue to show trends towards more and more acceptance of gay lifestyles and marriages. That is what I am talking about.

As far as only a few thinking the ERA needed passing, its hard to believe you actually wrote that and still think the anti-gay marriage amendment would fly.
 
Damocles said:
It is, again, the capacity for consent. Children are not capable of making these long-reaching decisions, they are unable to even form the necessary connections for consent. Until they are, your abuse of them will remain illegal, once they reach maturity and are deemed capable of making those decisions (nowadays we set that line at 18 in this particular society) then you can have your will with that young boy if such is your desire. And in the future you may even marry them.
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As Stringy pointed out, we allowed it at one time in this country. The age of consent is a man-made standard we apply, there is nothing scientific which says a person magically gains the ability to understand consent on their 18th birthday, is there? Who are you to say a 12-year-old is less able to understand consequences of their decisions than a 30-year-old gay man?
 
Dixie said:
No, it's a worthless argument to argue for Gay Marriage. The Constitution is pretty clear on equal protection, and if you established a redefinition of marriage based on sexual lifestyle, you would open the door to all kinds of other less desirable lifestyles, and there would be absolutely nothing you could do to stop it. I know you don't believe that, but go read the Constitution, it's very clearly stated in there. You legalize Gay Marriage, you also legalize Pet Marriage, Multiple Marriage, Kid Marriage, and everything else a bunch of sick perverts can think of, because you've established marriage based on a sexual behavior, and not the traditional man/woman thing.
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Bullshit! Gay marriage does not redefine marriage based on sexual lifestyle. It removes sexual lifestyle from the definition of marriage.

There is no reason why that implies that we must remove consent by both parties from the definition or drop our more reasoned understanding of a child's inability to give consent.

We have changed the parameters of marriage before (to include protection for children recently) and your non sequitur slippery slope did not occur.

There is no logical link between gay marriage and removing consent by both parties as a necessary condition of marriage.

You are an idiot. Your argument is pathetic and stupid and based on nothing but your twisted imagination.
 
Dixie said:
As Stringy pointed out, we allowed it at one time in this country. The age of consent is a man-made standard we apply, there is nothing scientific which says a person magically gains the ability to understand consent on their 18th birthday, is there? Who are you to say a 12-year-old is less able to understand consequences of their decisions than a 30-year-old gay man?
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We set the limits from our own understanding of our own capacity at that age.
 
Dixie said:
Age of consent is a man-made standard we apply! Just as you seek to "redefine" marriage, one could also seek to "redefine" age of consent! If we can change and alter definitions, anything is possible!
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Again, the standard is set by simply remembering our own capacity for making life-changing decisions at that age. While the age may change in different times and places, the central idea is the same. We protect those who have yet to gain the capacity to make those decisions.
 
Damocles said:
We set the limits from our own understanding of our own capacity at that age.
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Wasn't there also a bunch of studies done, that resulted in showing a mean age when the idea of spatial results and cognitve responsibilty become more stable and precise.
 
Dixie said:
Right, WE SET LIMITS! Marriage is the union of a MAN and WOMAN... that is a limit we set! There is absolutely NO difference!
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Adults have the capacity to make decisions, there is no reason for such a limitation other than to make such relationships fit into your Judeo-Christian dogmatic belief system.
 
Dixie said:
Right, WE SET LIMITS! Marriage is the union of a MAN and WOMAN... that is a limit we set! There is absolutely NO difference!
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And we set those limits at a time when sodomy was illegal and gay couples were fired from their jobs for being openly gay. We have grown as a society to see that there is no harm in allowing homosexuals to be open in their lives.

The same cannot be said for those who want sex with children.
 
USFREEDOM911 said:
Wasn't there also a bunch of studies done, that resulted in showing a mean age when the idea of spatial results and cognitve responsibilty become more stable and precise.
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Yes. But don't confuse the man with complex facts. We set the limit based on our own memories of our capacity to choose and make decisions like that. We know that 16 year olds can make some very stupid decisions that can change their lives forever, therefore we don't let them sign contracts...

Many places allow parents (those who know the child personally) to give consent for an under aged person for such things as marriage and for contracts. It was how I joined the military at 17.
 
Dixie said:
Right, WE SET LIMITS! Marriage is the union of a MAN and WOMAN... that is a limit we set! There is absolutely NO difference!
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We set the limit to keep children from marrying; because of the harm it does TO THE CHILD, not TO THE ADULT.

HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA
You're a moron.
 
Damocles said:
Adults have the capacity to make decisions, there is no reason for such a limitation other than to make such relationships fit into your Judeo-Christian dogmatic belief system.
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It's my experience that many adults lack the capacity to make sound decisions. Subsequently, I know teenagers who make better decisions than some adults. Regardless, there is absolutely NOTHING to show that this decision making ability magically appears on ones 18th birthday, and not a minute before!
 
Dixie said:
Thanks for the new sig line... I knew it was about time for a pinhead to say something stupid!
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He is absolutely correct. You are trying to define homosexuals as being only about their sex lives. That is not true.

I could no more have romantic feelings for a man than I could have them for a tree stump. A gay man feels the same way about women.

Gays do not want to get married to have sex. They want to get married for the same reasons you and I and most other people do.
 
Damocles said:
We set the limits from our own understanding of our own capacity at that age.
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I was going to reply, but you covered it. There is absolutely no reason to assume a gay man lacks the ability to understand the consequences of a marriage or any contract. A 12 year old, yeah there is good reason to believe they may not.

There is a very compelling argument that the state, at the very least, has a right to invade the privacy of a child for their own protection and to determine their capacity to contract. There is no such argument with a 30 year old homosexual. If he/she don't know, they should have. Fuck em. There is no legitimate state interests in protecting them, as with a child.
 
Damocles said:
Yes. But don't confuse the man with complex facts. We set the limit based on our own memories of our capacity to choose and make decisions like that. We know that 16 year olds can make some very stupid decisions that can change their lives forever, therefore we don't let them sign contracts...

Many places allow parents (those who know the child personally) to give consent for an under aged person for such things as marriage and for contracts. It was how I joined the military at 17.
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Dixie is so unyielding on this, that it's likely he's going to have to institutionalized when same sex marriages are allowed to be legal.
 
Dixie said:
It's my experience that many adults lack the capacity to make sound decisions. Subsequently, I know teenagers who make better decisions than some adults. Regardless, there is absolutely NOTHING to show that this decision making ability magically appears on ones 18th birthday, and not a minute before!
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Which doesn't change the basic fact, we set those laws into place to protect victims, that is the reason for pedophilia laws. Even if you "really really" want it to be the same thing as two adults making a fully informed decision, you still are simply arguing the absurd.
 
USFREEDOM911 said:
We set the limit to keep children from marrying; because of the harm it does TO THE CHILD, not TO THE ADULT.

HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA
You're a moron.
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How do you conclude it always does "harm" to a child you don't know anything about? Who died and gave you that authority? And.... How does this effect YOU or YOUR marriage? (lol... had to throw that one in there!)
 
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