Record crops from organic farming

PostmodernProphet said:
no wonder Europe is in such bad shape......here in the US we use the other half ton of apples to make apple sauce......
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I think you have better access to things like farmers markets than the UK has. But you also tend to accept GM foods much more readily than Europe does.
 
WinterBorn said:
The contentional farming methods are terrible for the soil. That is why increasing amounts of chemicals must be added to the soils to make stuff grow. Not only is our soil worse, but the chemicals leaching into our water supply is increasing steadily.

Proving it to the gov't is not a concern to me. The methods of farming are a concern.

Things like the fact that 70-80% of the antibiotics used in the country go to farm animals. If that doesn't worry you, you aren't paying attention.
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apparently you missed my point.....nothing you have said has anything to do with efficiency.......you're talking about environmental impact.....that doesn't change the fact than organic farming is clearly inefficient.....
 
Lowaicue said:
I think you have better access to things like farmers markets than the UK has. But you also tend to accept GM foods much more readily than Europe does.
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it is true we don't think GM foods are going to turn us into the zombie apocalypse....but in your example, I'm sure the grocery store isn't throwing away half their apples because they forgot to tell their supplier not to send GM foods......of course, in reality I am assuming your example is a lie.....
 
SuperstringTheory said:
http://m.guardiannews.com/global-development/2013/feb/16/india-rice-farmers-revolution

"Farmers use less seeds, less water and less chemicals but they get more without having to invest more. This is revolutionary," said Dr Surendra Chaurassa from Bihar's agriculture ministry. "I did not believe it to start with, but now I think it can potentially change the way everyone farms. I would want every state to promote it. If we get 30-40% increase in yields, that is more than enough to recommend it."
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Ths is really great news!
 
PostmodernProphet said:
lol....potatoes and rice have a different maturity date.....it WAS the same season, silly twit.....
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Lol potatoes grow in 6 months or less wheat in 4 months or less. They were different seasons, you silly twit.

That was the point the author was making with the potato AND the wheat crop. For some odd reason you are taking the news poorly and looking for some reason to discount it. You are not thinking rationally.
 
PostmodernProphet said:
probably because we don't gloss over things like the fact planting by hand is obviously more labor intensive than planting by machine......
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The only one glossing over anything is you. The article pointed out that it may be more labor intensive but that some disagree. I made the point that the cost of labor relative to capital varies. You ignore all of that and continue to act as if you thought of something that had not been considered. You did not.

You are trying very hard to discredit this and there is no rational reason to do that. If it proves useful then it will be adopted more widely if not then it will be ignored.
 
PostmodernProphet said:
apparently you missed my point.....nothing you have said has anything to do with efficiency.......you're talking about environmental impact.....that doesn't change the fact than organic farming is clearly inefficient.....
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Do you think environmental damage is a fair price to pay for 5% efficiency?
 
PostmodernProphet said:
apparently you missed my point.....nothing you have said has anything to do with efficiency.......you're talking about environmental impact.....that doesn't change the fact than organic farming is clearly inefficient.....
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You are just glossing over the points he made. Soil degradation certainly will have an impact on the farmers efficiency. Most of the water pollution is an external cost but still a cost that should be considered when judging efficiency from a macro level.
 
SuperstringTheory said:
Lol potatoes grow in 6 months or less wheat in 4 months or less. They were different seasons, you silly twit.

That was the point the author was making with the potato AND the wheat crop. For some odd reason you are taking the news poorly and looking for some reason to discount it. You are not thinking rationally.
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anyone who read that article and didn't realize the author didn't know squat about agriculture is not thinking rationally.....
 
SuperstringTheory said:
The only one glossing over anything is you. The article pointed out that it may be more labor intensive but that some disagree. I made the point that the cost of labor relative to capital varies.
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dude....one person driving a machine versus dozens working by hand isn't something that requires agreement......it merely requires thought.......
 
Shy Guy said:
Do you think environmental damage is a fair price to pay for 5% efficiency?
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irrelevant to my point....even discounting the necessity to accept your assumptions of percentage......what if its 1200% efficiency and the environmental damage can be offset in other ways.....obviously a question for a different debate....
 
PostmodernProphet said:
it is true we don't think GM foods are going to turn us into the zombie apocalypse....but in your example, I'm sure the grocery store isn't throwing away half their apples because they forgot to tell their supplier not to send GM foods......of course, in reality I am assuming your example is a lie.....
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Here is the intro to a recent survey:

UK supermarkets reject 'wasted food' report claims
10 January 2013 Last updated at 18:16
The report said half the food bought in Europe and the US ended up in the bin
Britain's biggest supermarkets have been defending their practices after a report suggested that up to half of the world's food is thrown away.
The Institution of Mechanical Engineers said the waste was being caused by poor storage, strict sell-by dates, bulk offers and consumer fussiness.
The British Retail Consortium said supermarkets have "adopted a range of approaches" to combat waste.
They also lobbied the EU to relax laws stopping the sale of misshaped produce.
According to the report - Global Food; Waste Not, Want Not - from the UK-based institution, as much as half of the world's food, amounting to two billion tonnes worth, is wasted.

You may argue that it is not necessarily 50% from supermarkets if you wish. But to state that we (the world) must increase the amount of agriculural land or develop more GM foods is totally misleading.
We are growing the wrong stuff in the wrong places and dumbing down users to accept only what the supermarkets tell them is 'perfect' food.
You might like to check out the TED talk, 'Tristram Stuart: The global food waste scandal'
This waste is as a direct result of supermarket policy. If the apples or tomatoes are of odd shapes and sizes they cannot be handled by machine and computer, but the supermarkets maintain that customers demand 'perfectly shaped' food. That, as even you must agree, is total bollocks.

You mention the 'grocery store'. In English a grocery store is NOT a supermarket - perhaps it is in america! We need to get back to high street shops, to green grocers, to butchers, to fishmongers where we pay for the produce and the wellbeing of the tradesman and not a million faceless shareholders. We need to be able to tap into the expertise of these people for our own health's sake. We need to understand seasonality of food and not demand strawberries in winter because the only strawberries available in winter are either genetically modified and tasteless or they have been flown in from California and we are paying for PanAm or British Airways and not for strawberries!
In short we need to stop believing the BULLSHIT that Wallmart, Safeway, Tesco et al employ thousands of expensive copy writers to feed us.

A final point on GM foods. The question is NOT that they may be harmful, that is quite unlikely. The battle must be fought so the farmers are not held to ransome by private, profit run organisations.
You are fighting the wrong battle.
 
All I know is that if I did not use pesticides reasonably japanese beetles would destroy my green beans very fast.

I do organic soil ammendemnts, cow manure, lime, etc.
 
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Banned said:
All I know is that if I did not use pesticides reasonably japanese beetles would destroy my green beans very fast.
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Depends on the pesticide I guess. There are many natural ways of controlling pests... I have no idea what a Japanese beetle is although there is, I believe, a Japanese Beatle tribute group!
 
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