Remember When

[maineman]

and...oddly enough...not one of those democratic quotes says that Saddam has any weapons of mass destruction.... as opposed to the likes of Bush, Rummy and Cheney who not only said that he most certainly HAD weapons of mass destruction, but, that they knew right where they were.

People who claim they cannot discern the difference between those two classes of statements pretty much brand themselves as thick, obtuse morons.

That would be YOU, write... but we already knew that. lol

 

[klaatu]

The whole point is this .. fundementally this is neither Democrat nor Republican.. it is all about gaining control over a region ... why? We all know why ... its called the life blood of our economy ... black gold...Texas tea.
Our children are dying in a War that is beng fought for A) Economic Survival B) because of the shotsightedness of our economic leadership
C) and finally ...the crazy threat of brainwashed religous fantatics.

We need to go inot a different direction ... and it needs to be fast tracked ...

 

[Sir Evil]

People who claim they cannot discern the difference between those two classes of statements pretty much brand themselves as thick, obtuse morons.

That would be YOU, write... but we already knew that. lol

Spin it up, down, sideways, but the truth of the matter is that you really have to be seeing it absolutely one way to assume that none of the quoted figures throughout the article thought any differently. ........

 

[uscitizen]

The whole point is this .. fundementally this is neither Democrat nor Republican.. it is all about gaining control over a region ... why? We all know why ... its called the life blood of our economy ... black gold...Texas tea.
Our children are dying in a War that is beng fought for A) Economic Survival B) because of the shotsightedness of our economic leadership
C) and finally ...the crazy threat of brainwashed religous fantatics.

We need to go inot a different direction ... and it needs to be fast tracked ...

What kind of vision and direction did you expect from ex(?) oilmen in the WH ?

 

[maineman]

Spin it up, down, sideways, but the truth of the matter is that you really have to be seeing it absolutely one way to assume that none of the quoted figures throughout the article thought any differently. ........

I think that all the democrats quoted thought that Saddam was a bad guy and that he was trying to obtain weapons of mass destruction so that he could be the toughest tough guy in the middle east.

The difference being that Dubya told that he HAD them and that he wanted to use them on US and that there was an excellent chance that he would give them to Al Qaeda to use on us if he didn't use them himself.

And that difference is huge: it led to our invading, conquering and occupying Iraq in a move that has been counterproductive to our efforts to defeat islamic extremism, has cost us billions of dollars and thousands of lives, and has evaporated the post 9/11 goodwill throughout the world.

 

[Sir Evil]

And that difference is huge: it led to our invading, conquering and occupying Iraq in a move that has been counterproductive to our efforts to defeat islamic extremism, has cost us billions of dollars and thousands of lives, and has evaporated the post 9/11 goodwill throughout the world.

The huge difference maine is that fact that you are unwilling accept that there were plenty on the side that you hold so dear that thought the very same thing.
This is exactly why I will not quote the article I posted as you will twist it into something it is not. You read the article, did billy have a better source of intelligence then? No, you wanna claim that the intelligence now was purely forged to invade for no good reason. I still maintain the position that there was not even a need to talk wmd's in order to invade.

You wanna believe that seeing as the intelligence then was not acted upon, or shall I say that it did not lead to war, that the side you see it from is far superior. Anyway you look at it maine the iraq issue laid dormant for many years prior to the administration, the issue came to light with this administration, so therefore it works perfect to your argument.

See it for whartever you want, point is that the story goes quite aways back with the same theories involved.

 

[uscitizen]

Evil I find it somewhat disheartening that we keep making the same or very similiar mistakes again and again in the ME, will we ever learn ?

 

[Sir Evil]

Evil I find it somewhat disheartening that we keep making the same or very similiar mistakes again and again in the ME, will we ever learn ?

I doubt that thought very much to be honest. It will all depend upon what you forsee to be mistakes, and those who will agree & disagree will still be there. Foreign policy swing from one ideal to the next depending upon administrations, some will be there to see it the way they choose to see it. Until a time comes that a single ideaology is put in place, and then acted upon throughout different leaderships it will most likely never happen.....just my worthless opinion though.

 

[maineman]

The huge difference maine is that fact that you are unwilling accept that there were plenty on the side that you hold so dear that thought the very same thing.
This is exactly why I will not quote the article I posted as you will twist it into something it is not. You read the article, did billy have a better source of intelligence then? No, you wanna claim that the intelligence now was purely forged to invade for no good reason. I still maintain the position that there was not even a need to talk wmd's in order to invade.

You wanna believe that seeing as the intelligence then was not acted upon, or shall I say that it did not lead to war, that the side you see it from is far superior. Anyway you look at it maine the iraq issue laid dormant for many years prior to the administration, the issue came to light with this administration, so therefore it works perfect to your argument.

See it for whartever you want, point is that the story goes quite aways back with the same theories involved.

there were some, but not "plenty". I articulated what many democrats believed above... it was different than what Dubya sold us.... and he did NOT have the intelligence that suggested that Saddam wanted to use WMD's on us...and he did NOT have the intelligence that suggested that Saddam would even THINK of giving WMD's to AQ given the stated goal of AQ to eliminate the secular states in the region of which Saddam's Iraq was one...that was the shit he made up and that was the shit we went to war over.

 

[Cypress]

there were some, but not "plenty". I articulated what many democrats believed above... it was different than what Dubya sold us.... and he did NOT have the intelligence that suggested that Saddam wanted to use WMD's on us...and he did NOT have the intelligence that suggested that Saddam would even THINK of giving WMD's to AQ given the stated goal of AQ to eliminate the secular states in the region of which Saddam's Iraq was one...that was the shit he made up and that was the shit we went to war over.

I articulated what many democrats believed above... it was different than what Dubya sold us....

Dubya was stating that "we knew FOR A FACT" Iraq had WMD.

Dubya's admin was the one lying that iraq had "reconstituted nuclear weapons", and had collaborative ties with al qaeda. Virtually nobody on the democratic side made those false assertions.

Dubya was the one who went on a road-tour to promote his war in the Fall of 2002 - not democrats.

And Democrats held their most prominent war-apologist accountable: Joe Lieberman.

 

[Sir Evil]

that was the shit he made up and that was the shit we went to war over.

LOL, ok maine. I'm not here to attempt making you seeing it any other way at all. But so long as you find yourself so articulate, and of course adamant with the truth that is out there, why not run with this piece of evidence you have and make the biggest case in history? I'll be standing by to see the results.....

 

[Cypress]

Vietnam was democrat LBJ's war.

I've never heard anybody state that republicans held equal responsiblity, since virtually ALL republicans in the senate voted for the Tonkin Gulf resolution.

The war was LBJ's responsibility - as was its failure.

 

[Sir Evil]

Vietnam was democrat LBJ's war.

I've never heard anybody state that republicans held equal responsiblity, since virtually ALL republicans in the senate voted for the Tonkin Gulf resolution.

The war was LBJ's responsibility - as was its failure.

Another half ass attempt to change the course of discussion mudflap!



it's really overdue at this point.....

 

[maineman]

LOL, ok maine. I'm not here to attempt making you seeing it any other way at all. But so long as you find yourself so articulate, and of course adamant with the truth that is out there, why not run with this piece of evidence you have and make the biggest case in history? I'll be standing by to see the results.....

the evidence is already in the public domain. America now knows that Saddam did NOT have WMD's capable of being launched at the eastern seaboard from UAV's launched from the decks of cargo ships under Iraqi control ... Bush claimed that. America now has begun to educate itself about Al Qaeda and islamic extremism and is becoming aware of the fact that Al Qaeda was a natural enemy of Saddam. Would this make any sense to you:

"Saddam: Okay Osama.... I know that you guys are sworn to eliminate my government and establish a theocracy throughout the region, but I also know that you are out to get the US, so I will give you, my sworn enemy, a whole passel of weapons of mass destruction but only on the condition that you swear - cross you heart and hope to die, stick a needle in your eye - that you will NOT use them against ME"

 

[Cypress]

the evidence is already in the public domain. America now knows that Saddam did NOT have WMD's capable of being launched at the eastern seaboard from UAV's launched from the decks of cargo ships under Iraqi control ... Bush claimed that. America now has begun to educate itself about Al Qaeda and islamic extremism and is becoming aware of the fact that Al Qaeda was a natural enemy of Saddam. Would this make any sense to you:

"Saddam: Okay Osama.... I know that you guys are sworn to eliminate my government and establish a theocracy throughout the region, but I also know that you are out to get the US, so I will give you, my sworn enemy, a whole passel of weapons of mass destruction but only on the condition that you swear - cross you heart and hope to die, stick a needle in your eye - that you will NOT use them against ME"

What idiot ever thought that the secular socialist dictator saddam would dare risk giving his most deadly weapons to a bunch of whacked-out jihadists who were dedicated to overthrowing all secular authoritarian governments in the arab world?

Oh....that's right. Bush-fans thought that that was a strong possibility.

 

[OrnotBitwise]

the evidence is already in the public domain. America now knows that Saddam did NOT have WMD's capable of being launched at the eastern seaboard from UAV's launched from the decks of cargo ships under Iraqi control ... Bush claimed that. America now has begun to educate itself about Al Qaeda and islamic extremism and is becoming aware of the fact that Al Qaeda was a natural enemy of Saddam. Would this make any sense to you:

"Saddam: Okay Osama.... I know that you guys are sworn to eliminate my government and establish a theocracy throughout the region, but I also know that you are out to get the US, so I will give you, my sworn enemy, a whole passel of weapons of mass destruction but only on the condition that you swear - cross you heart and hope to die, stick a needle in your eye - that you will NOT use them against ME"

Well put. Not even Ronald Reagan was quite that stupid. Close, but not quite.

 

[Sir Evil]

the evidence is already in the public domain. America now knows that Saddam did NOT have WMD's capable of being launched at the eastern seaboard from UAV's launched from the decks of cargo ships under Iraqi control ... Bush claimed that. America now has begun to educate itself about Al Qaeda and islamic extremism and is becoming aware of the fact that Al Qaeda was a natural enemy of Saddam. Would this make any sense to you:

"Saddam: Okay Osama.... I know that you guys are sworn to eliminate my government and establish a theocracy throughout the region, but I also know that you are out to get the US, so I will give you, my sworn enemy, a whole passel of weapons of mass destruction but only on the condition that you swear - cross you heart and hope to die, stick a needle in your eye - that you will NOT use them against ME"

Ok maine, fair enough, I know the whole world is wrong thanks to the rebublicans. It's all their for everyone to see, and you give it your stamp of approval so it must be factual. I'm cool with that, thanks a bunch for allowing me to see the light......

 

[maineman]

of course, the world is not all wrong thanks solely to American republicans. Please refrain from the flatulent and inflammatory hyperbole. The fact that we invaded Iraq on false pretenses is clearly their fault however. The fact that Rove & Co. spun that use of force resolution vote to be about patriotism and not about reality is certainly all their fault. Democrats had their part to play in helping screw up the rest of the world over the past century, no doubt. But THIS mess...this mess in Iraq is all about you guys... and you should remember when the war was first on, and Bush was landing on the aircraft carrier and claiming mission accomplished and everybody was pumped up because we were finally "gettin' some" as payback for 9/11.... you should remember that the republicans were claiming that victory all for themselves and were saying that democrats were going to find ourselves on the wrong side of history about Iraq and how wrong we were to have opposed it....

and now that it has turned into the bucket of shit that many of us were predicting it would turn into from day one...NOW, the republicans want to make it some big bi-partisan effort and want to have democrats share some of the blame for the mess we find ourselves in.....

I ain't buyin' it...and neither is America. We are in Iraq because George Bush and Dick Cheney and Rummy and Wolfie and PNAC and the Republican party wanted us to be there. Nobody believes - nor should they - that we are in Iraq because the democratic party wanted us to be there.

Vietnam? that was our screw up and I would never try to foist it on republicans.... (except for that last four years or so when Tricky Dick ran as the peace candidate in '68 promising that he had a secret plan to end the war, but couldn't talk about it until we'd elected him and then, when we did, he kinda let us know that his "plan" was to bomb the shit out of North Vietnam and Cambodia for four more years and lose another 20K American boys before actually ending it)...

Korea? all ours....

Iraq? you broke it...you own it.

That's just the way it is.

 

[Prakosh]

Oh, you ain't seen nothin' yet. Prakosh is one of my all-time favorite posters.

Welcome, Prak!

Aw shucks...now I've got that reputation thing to live up to...

Hey, Ornot, what do I do when I write a long post myself. Should I post it on another message board and then link to that or should I just post it here and let them go nuts trying to find a link to it somewhere else? Is there a length limit or can you post a long post if you are the author? I'm so confused.

 

[Sir Evil]

Aw shucks...now I've got that reputation thing to live up to...

Hey, Ornot, what do I do when I write a long post myself.

LOL, you may as well so long as you are looking for back patting! Have no worries though, the left reign supreme here in will give credence to whatever you posts so long as it is against anything remotelycentered or to the right!