Republicans will back off on Abortion
- Thread starter Jarod
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christiefan915
Catalyst
Of course they will. Here's a video of him saying he's very pro-choice and wouldn't ban abortion if he were president. But proof doesn't matter to MAGAts. The link is from X.
Conversation
Ron Filipkowski
@RonFilipkowski
7 years before he had to run his Big Con to fool evangelicals that he was one of them, Trump said he was “very pro-choice” and wouldn’t even ban late-term abortions.
https://twitter.com/RonFilipkowski/status/1466155971126956033?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw%7Ctwcamp%5Etweetembed%7Ctwterm%5E1466159346337783808%7Ctwgr%5Eacc5a6ec265fc789cbf3be1722a957f429d2f821%7Ctwcon%5Es3_&ref_url=https%3A%2F%2Fsecondnexus.com%2Fvery-pro-choice-trump-1999
Althea
Althea told me...
Gonna be hard to back away from 'I got rid of Roe/Wade'Of course they will. Here's a video of him saying he's very pro-choice and wouldn't ban abortion if he were president. But proof doesn't matter to MAGAts. The link is from X.
Conversation
Ron Filipkowski
@RonFilipkowski
7 years before he had to run his Big Con to fool evangelicals that he was one of them, Trump said he was “very pro-choice” and wouldn’t even ban late-term abortions.
https://twitter.com/RonFilipkowski/status/1466155971126956033?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw%7Ctwcamp%5Etweetembed%7Ctwterm%5E1466159346337783808%7Ctwgr%5Eacc5a6ec265fc789cbf3be1722a957f429d2f821%7Ctwcon%5Es3_&ref_url=https%3A%2F%2Fsecondnexus.com%2Fvery-pro-choice-trump-1999
cawacko
Well-known member
Of course they will. Here's a video of him saying he's very pro-choice and wouldn't ban abortion if he were president. But proof doesn't matter to MAGAts. The link is from X.
Conversation
Ron Filipkowski
@RonFilipkowski
7 years before he had to run his Big Con to fool evangelicals that he was one of them, Trump said he was “very pro-choice” and wouldn’t even ban late-term abortions.
https://twitter.com/RonFilipkowski/status/1466155971126956033?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw%7Ctwcamp%5Etweetembed%7Ctwterm%5E1466159346337783808%7Ctwgr%5Eacc5a6ec265fc789cbf3be1722a957f429d2f821%7Ctwcon%5Es3_&ref_url=https%3A%2F%2Fsecondnexus.com%2Fvery-pro-choice-trump-1999
He was just President when R v W was overturned. Isn’t that the holy grail to pro-lifers? Why would a comment he made years prior matter compared to actions while in office?
christiefan915
Catalyst
Well, he'll support anti-choice candidates downballot like he did here in PA in 2020, and from what we've seen so far, it'll hurt repubs.
cawacko
Well-known member
For clarification (and since tone can be tough I’m asking this in a conversational voice), I got the impression you were saying his voters shouldn’t support him because seven years ago he said he wouldn’t ban abortions. But now you’re saying he shouldn’t support pro-life candidates?
(There’s a good chance I’m missing something but I’m just trying to understand the position)
christiefan915
Catalyst
No, I'm saying no matter how much he contradicts himself on the stuff that matters to his voters, they'll still support him. I would like to know what the last straw is for trump voters.
The second part is I wonder if the party wants him to support repub anti-choice candidates, or would they rather downplay the issue.
QP!
Verified User
Of course they will. Here's a video of him saying he's very pro-choice and wouldn't ban abortion if he were president. But proof doesn't matter to MAGAts. The link is from X.
Conversation
Ron Filipkowski
@RonFilipkowski
7 years before he had to run his Big Con to fool evangelicals that he was one of them, Trump said he was “very pro-choice” and wouldn’t even ban late-term abortions.[FONT=&]
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ThatOwlWoman
Not Nice
He already did that in the 2016 campaign. Too bad we'll never know how many he paid for, assuming his claims of getting laid, eh?
ThatOwlWoman
Not Nice
I guess the concept of hypocrisy escapes both you and the forced-birthers. They now want a national ban on abortion, and their #MalignantMessiah says he's in favor.
cawacko
Well-known member
Biden didn't exactly have the strongest pro-choice record during his earlier career in office. Did that stop you or other pro-choice people from supporting him for President in 2020?
cawacko
Well-known member
I see you are making a very large assumption on where I stand. You could ask my position first.
A politician is hypocritical?
I'm not defending Trump nor am I making any judgement on abortion. Do you think voters care more about what someone said on an issue years ago or how they voted on it while in office? To me the latter trumps (no pun intended) with most.
christiefan915
Catalyst
Heck, I voted for a pro-life candidate in the 2006 Senate election. It was between Bob Casey Jr. or Rick Santorum. I wouldn't vote for Santorum in a million years, plus Roe v. Wade was still solid. So I guess it depends, plus I'm not a single-issue voter although choice is pretty high on the list.
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cawacko
Well-known member
I'm willing to bet very few people hold all the exact same views later in life that they did when they were young. We all change and evolve in various ways. When talking about politicians some change views because their principles change and others because of political expediency. If I may ask a question, there are Democrats who are personally pro-life but have a perfect score while in office for being pro-choice. Is that hypocritical? Could you not vote for someone like that?
How Biden and Trump Switched Sides on Abortion
Both the current and the former president have become unlikely heroes on either side of the abortion debate. But that’s not where they started out.
Around the turn of the 21st century, two men who would be president weighed in on abortion.
"I'm very pro-choice," then-real estate businessman Donald Trump said in a 1999 interview on "Meet the Press," attributing his views to "a little bit of a New York background."
That was the same era when Joe Biden, then a Democratic senator from Delaware, was squishy on the issue. Also in 1999, Biden voted to express approval for Roe v Wade. But he also, during that period, voted to maintain a rule that prevented American military women from using their own money to get abortions in overseas military hospitals. In 1977, Biden voted against a compromise that would have allowed Medicaid funding of abortions in cases of rape, incest or where the life of the mother was a concern.
Until he was running for president in 2019, he supported the Hyde amendment banning the use of federal funds for abortions.
Fast forward to 2022, and both men have become unlikely heroes for the other side. Trump stood as the pivotal player as the Supreme Court – now one-third Trump appointees – dissolved the 50-year-old constitutional right to abortion.
And Biden, visibly enraged over the ruling, delivered a passionate call to arms, pledging to use his office to help women get abortions if they are in states where it is banned. And he pleaded with voters to help him get a Congress that will codify the right nationwide.
"Let's be very clear: The health and lives of women in this nation are now at risk," Biden said, displaying a mix of anger and sadness as he talked about young girls who would be forced to carry the products of incest and women who would endure the pain of delivering their rapists' offspring.
The ruling "made the United States an outlier among developed nations in the world," the president said. But "this decision must not be the final word. My administration will use all appropriate and lawful power" to help women seeking abortion, "but Congress must act. With your vote, you can act," he added. “You can have the final word. This is not over."
For many Americans – a strong majority of whom, polling shows, support abortion rights – Friday was like witnessing the expected death of a friend with a terminal illness. People largely knew the ruling was coming, since a leaked opinion laid out the reasoning to discard a right the high court itself established in 1993. But it was a gut punch nonetheless, with demonstrators chanting and weeping outside the black metal barriers protecting the Supreme Court, absorbing the reality of a day they had hoped still might not come.
"It was like a death," says Sonia Ossorio, president of the National Organization for Women New York.
And it would most likely not have happened had Trump not been elected president in 2016. An unusual type of presidential candidate – he was the first to have neither military nor political experience – Trump used his marketing and branding skills to win over key segments of the GOP base.
A thrice-married former casino owner who bragged in his books about his extramarital affairs, Trump was not a predictable favorite of religious conservatives and evangelicals. But he embraced a strong anti-abortion decision, vowing to appoint like-minded justices to the Supreme Court.
Trump won the white evangelical voter overwhelmingly, with 81% to Democratic nominee Hillary Clinton's 16% of that vote, according to exit polls, helping to put him over the top in pivotal states.
"They both switched, in a way," says Barbara Perry, a presidential scholar and Supreme Court expert at the University of Virginia's Miller Center.
For Biden, it was "an evolution," she says. A devout Catholic who lost a baby in a car accident, Biden was personally opposed to abortion, a view that was partly reflected in his voting record.
But since then, with changing times and views towards women (not to mention being married to Jill Biden, the first first lady to hold a professional job outside the White House), Biden has become a strong supporter of abortion rights, Perry notes.
For Trump, Perry says, the evolution was transactional.
"He's just a gross opportunist. He said what he needed to say to get the Republican nomination," Perry says.
Trump, who continues to hold rallies and dangle the possibility of a 2024 run even as Congress holds damaging hearings on his role in the Jan. 6 insurrection, celebrated the ruling Friday.
"This brings everything back to the states where it has always belonged,” Trump told Fox News. “This is following the Constitution and giving rights back when they should have been given long ago."
Biden – who was in the Oval Office when the ruling came down and made tweaks to a draft speech prepared in anticipation of the decision – acknowledged in his Friday remarks that there was little he could do to ease the effects of the decision. The president said he would direct the Department of Health and Human Services to make sure "critical medicines" such as the abortion pill are "available to the fullest extent possible."
The White House also said it would fight any efforts by states to prevent women from traveling to another state to obtain an abortion.
But the reality is, Biden said, that only Congress can vote to codify what was in the now-defunct Roe ruling.
With Biden's popularity low and midterm trends not favoring the party in power, Democrats are facing loss of control of the House and possibly the Senate this fall. Should that happen, there would be virtually zero chance for congressional action codifying abortion rights. If a Republican were president, abortion rights activists fear that a GOP Congress would ban all abortions, even in states that are now electing to retain access to abortion under the new Supreme Court ruling.
Democrats hope the abortion issue will be a galvanizing issue for dispirited voters who don't want Republicans in power but might not be motivated to turn out at the polls. On Friday, legions of Democratic candidates declared they would fight for abortion rights if elected.
In the past, foes of abortion have been more effective at turning out their voters, perhaps because abortion rights supporters were complacent in thinking Roe would not be overturned. But the Friday ruling could reverse the momentum, Democratic operatives think.
"Centering abortion access in our messaging ahead of this midterm cycle is critical to mobilizing voters against the pressing threat Republicans pose to both reproductive rights and democracy," says Danielle Butterfield, executive director of the Democratic SuperPAC Priorities USA. "The threat of Republican extremism has only grown since 2020 and we’ll be reminding voters of exactly that to drive them to the polls.”
Ossorio predicts women will answer Friday's ruling at the polls in November.
"We're at the end of our ropes," after years of bearing the extra family burden from COVID, the baby food shortage and the child care crunch, Ossorio says. "This is a huge galvanizing moment. There isn't any energy for politeness or stepping aside as we're 'supposed' to do. Women are very focused now."
https://www.usnews.com/news/politic...ow-biden-and-trump-switched-sides-on-abortion
christiefan915
Catalyst
I could be wrong but I read the OP as showing yet another example of trump's hypocrisy, and whether his abortion flip-flops would turn anybody against him. We already know the most fanatical of his cult, including some religious figures, have given him a pass on his adulteries, so I think this won't matter either.
christiefan915
Catalyst
See post 13, I've already done it.
cawacko
Well-known member
My observation would be politicians can and do change positions (whether on principle or political expediency) and what he did in office would trump any statement made prior. Because once in office you are forced to show your cards.
(What I'm saying above would apply to anyone. Trade is important to me. If someone years ago used anti-free trade rhetoric but once in office supported free trade, their actions in office would carry far more weight than anything said prior - assuming they continue to support the free trade positions)
cawacko
Well-known member
Please feel free to tell me if I'm off (and hopefully I'm not repeating myself).
This would be equivalent to Republicans telling Democratic voters that because Biden hasn't always fully been 100% pro-choice he's a hypocrite and you shouldn't vote for him in 2024. I'm willing to bet that would not be a very convincing argument to pretty much all Democrats.
You go back to the 2016 campaign trail and Trump said he would appoint judges to overturn R v W and he did. One can say he's hypocrite because he changed his viewpoint on the issue but if you're pro-life he did exactly what they've been wanting for decades. So this idea that pro-lifers shouldn't vote for him because of a statement made years ago (which they would have known about in 2016) doesn't really move the needle.
ThatOwlWoman
Not Nice
Biden is a devout Catholic and thus is personally not pro-choice, but has chosen to support choice in his role as POTUS. There's been talk by more than one RC leader about excommunicating him.
ThatOwlWoman
Not Nice
I think voters tend to expect the POTUS to keep his personal beliefs out of his policies and decisions. At least LW voters do. RW voters want a POTUS who publicly supports their religious and personal beliefs. On some level IMO RWers know that Trump is a liar, a criminal, a hypocrite, a fraud. But because he says what they want to hear and promotes grievance and victimhood, he's their boy.