Revisiting Obamacare shows tRump's desperation.

Concart said:
Focus son. This has nothing to do with expanding Obamacare. Trump wants it gone. His cult wants it gone. Among the non-brainwashed population, Obamacare is extremely popular. It seems like a bizarre political strategy to ask the Supreme Court to eliminate coverage for millions of people during a pandemic, but hey, I never considered myself a stable genius.
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Obamacare has never been highly popular. In fact, because of COVID 19, it is currently at an all-time high of 54%. Most of the time it languishes in the low 40's. Obamacare didn't give very many more people health insurance, a few million (maybe 1 or 2% of the population) at most. What it did was force people holding individual policies onto it in lieu of the previous private market. These were people with insurance who now had to get an Obamacare plan instead of what they had previously. For many, that new insurance was far crappier than what they had before.
 
T. A. Gardner said:
Obamacare has never been highly popular. In fact, because of COVID 19, it is currently at an all-time high of 54%. Most of the time it languishes in the low 40's. Obamacare didn't give very many more people health insurance, a few million (maybe 1 or 2% of the population) at most. What it did was force people holding individual policies onto it in lieu of the previous private market. These were people with insurance who now had to get an Obamacare plan instead of what they had previously. For many, that new insurance was far crappier than what they had before.
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https://www.forbes.com/sites/brucej...bamacare-more-popular-than-ever/#2189c2b645c3

Has nothing to do with Covid. My guess is that is higher than that now, but 55% is a significant majority. Good luck in November.
 
T. A. Gardner said:
Trump and many Republicans would like to see it gone. The Democrats want to expand it towards universal government health insurance and even health care.
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Many tRump idiots love the pre-existing component of the ACA, but hate Obama-care. They are too ignorant to understand that they are the same......lol
Saw it LIVE on a focus group myself......)
 
Concart said:
https://www.forbes.com/sites/brucej...bamacare-more-popular-than-ever/#2189c2b645c3

Has nothing to do with Covid. My guess is that is higher than that now, but 55% is a significant majority. Good luck in November.
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“The recent uptick reflects strong support among Democrats, 85% of whom now express favorable views,” Kaiser said in its analysis. “A narrow majority (53%) of independents also view the law favorably. While most Republicans (77%) still hold unfavorable views towards the ACA, the poll suggests that Republican voters have largely moved on from efforts to repeal the ACA and now rank opposition to a single-payer government health plan like Medicare-for-all among their top health priorities.”
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From the article. So those who liked it all along are heavily in favor of it while everyone else is ambivalent or hates it. That doesn't bode well for Democrats on this issue. You will also note that while the article doesn't come out and say it directly, it names companies in several places that indicate that the Obamacare market is largely one populated by second and third tier companies rather than premium ones. Comparing it to auto insurance, Obamacare has companies like The General, or Titan insurance where they do month-to-month premiums and cover those otherwise uninsurable.
 
Tacomaman said:
Many tRump idiots love the pre-existing component of the ACA, but hate Obama-care. They are too ignorant to understand that they are the same......lol
Saw it LIVE on a focus group myself......)
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The pre-existing condition component is definitely popular, but it goes against good actuarial processes. That is, it spreads the high cost of a few across the many rather than setting rates on the basis of individual use. Of course, most people are just too ignorant to understand statistics and the statistical process...

Another failing of Obamacare that is popular is the "...stay on your parent's plan until you are 26..." This eliminated 50% of the group most wanted to be insured under Obamacare, the 18 to 34 year-old healthy individual. By adding this it ensured the cost of plans would go up dramatically as the pool of insured would include far fewer healthy individuals that would not use a lot of benefits from a plan.

The unexpected outcome was that many healthy people readily chose the tax penalty (until eliminated) over getting a health insurance policy that cost considerably more out-of-pocket. Their economic choice was to keep more of their money and tell the government to f off with their mandatory program. Again, that was crippling as more healthy (eg., low cost to insurers) people refused to get coverage so the insurers were covering more high cost individuals they couldn't say no to.
 
T. A. Gardner said:
The pre-existing condition component is definitely popular, but it goes against good actuarial processes. That is, it spreads the high cost of a few across the many rather than setting rates on the basis of individual use. Of course, most people are just too ignorant to understand statistics and the statistical process...

Another failing of Obamacare that is popular is the "...stay on your parent's plan until you are 26..." This eliminated 50% of the group most wanted to be insured under Obamacare, the 18 to 34 year-old healthy individual. By adding this it ensured the cost of plans would go up dramatically as the pool of insured would include far fewer healthy individuals that would not use a lot of benefits from a plan.

The unexpected outcome was that many healthy people readily chose the tax penalty (until eliminated) over getting a health insurance policy that cost considerably more out-of-pocket. Their economic choice was to keep more of their money and tell the government to f off with their mandatory program. Again, that was crippling as more healthy (eg., low cost to insurers) people refused to get coverage so the insurers were covering more high cost individuals they couldn't say no to.
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Lol, good actuarial process? Completely wrong. Actuaries assess risk, they don't place a value judgment on policy decisions. The rest is just ignorant. I work with actuaries every single day. I consult with Medicare Advantage plans on their risk adjustment data and how it impacts their business. I don't have the time or the energy to explain this to you, so I'll simply leave you with this. Obamacare is supported by 55% of Americans. That support has nothing to do with Covid. More importantly, many do not support it because they don't believe it goes far enough. And it doesn't.
 
T. A. Gardner said:
From the article. So those who liked it all along are heavily in favor of it while everyone else is ambivalent or hates it. That doesn't bode well for Democrats on this issue. You will also note that while the article doesn't come out and say it directly, it names companies in several places that indicate that the Obamacare market is largely one populated by second and third tier companies rather than premium ones. Comparing it to auto insurance, Obamacare has companies like The General, or Titan insurance where they do month-to-month premiums and cover those otherwise uninsurable.
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There is no such thing as a month to month Obamacare plan. That's nonsense.
 
Hello T. A. Gardner,

T. A. Gardner said:
Actually, there was more competition prior to the ACA and for the bulk of people they don't even have an ACA policy or use the program. Only people who are getting individual coverage need go through Obamacare. Even then, about a quarter of the people on it are covered by expanded Medicaid not an individual plan from a provider. As for providers, those have fallen in both quality and number since the program started. In almost all states, the big name, top tier, highest quality health insurers pulled out of Obamacare entirely.

https://www.theatlantic.com/health/...o-many-insurers-are-leaving-obamacare/526137/

In much of the US, there is just one provider for Obamacare plans. Many of the offered plans are really crappy too with limited networks of providers and poor coverage options.

Obamacare drove down competition and drove up prices. It also didn't provide the claimed idea that everyone would have health coverage. In fact, roughly the same number of people in the US today don't have health insurance as when the program started. Obamacare is a total failure. It is nothing but a bloated, useless, expensive, government bureaucratic disaster.
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Where was the competition prior to the ACA?

If you wanted a different health care policy you had to change jobs.

The reason for all of the downsides of the ACA is because Republicans refused to fight for the American people, allowed big insurance to dictate terms for allowing the new law. Big insurance is that powerful. They can tell the government what to do. They owned Congress.

The only way our representatives could possibly have stood up to big insurance and big pharma would have been if Democrats and Republicans stood up together, represented the consumers, represented the people, and told those big corporations how it was going to be. Democrats were amazing to get it across the finish line with big insurance, big pharma and Republicans all aligned against it. That provided health coverage for 30 million Americans who never had it nor would have.

Without the ACA insurers would be able to refuse insurance for anybody with preexisting conditions.

COVID-19, along with all the resultant complications, could now be considered a preexisting condition.

That would make health coverage off limits to anyone who tested positive if DT got his way.

DT appears to be determined to spread misery and death.
 
Hello Tacomaman,

Tacomaman said:
Many tRump idiots love the pre-existing component of the ACA, but hate Obama-care. They are too ignorant to understand that they are the same......lol
Saw it LIVE on a focus group myself......)
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The Affordable Care Act polls far higher with DT fans than Obamacare.

Respondents are surprised when they learn the two are one and the same.
 
T. A. Gardner said:
No, the ACA hasn't. The ACA did nothing for the medical system, it is nothing more than an insurance program. It did raise the cost of policies through the rafters. It drove down competition to near zero and often left those purchasing policies with only second and third tier insurers (eg., poor quality ones) as participants. It didn't really insure more people than before but did expand Medicaid at the cost of an additional state and federal tax burden.

As for the China flu...

Economically, the US hasn't been nearly slammed like many other nations.

https://www.forbes.com/sites/kenrap...shed-hardest-by-the-coronavirus/#43d0afca31e5

The US isn't nearly the worst case nation either if you compare them equally rather than with the bad statistics the US MSM usually uses.
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Yes, it has. Trump and the rightys have lied about it from the beginning to the end. The US has 30 percent of the Corona deaths in the world while being 4 percent of the population. Those undeniably clear numbers shows what a mishandled disaster the US has been. No nation is close to the mess we have and we are getting worse. I suppose a counter-argument is countries with universal healthcare have done a better job.
 
Concart said:
There is no such thing as a month to month Obamacare plan. That's nonsense.
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Are you that.... Whatever.

It was an analogy. Most Obamacare providers are now companies that control costs by limiting services and controlling the network of providers they pay to very carefully so their overall costs are minimized. This means you have long wait times for service, may have to drive many miles to see a doctor in the network, that sort of thing. Do anything out-of-network and you end up stuck with the whole bill. You might have heard of people lately getting whopping big bills their insurer won't pay for COVID 19... This is the sort of company likely telling them that.
The comparison to auto insurers like the General and Titan is apt. Those insurers do the same thing. Poor service, a very strictly set coverage, higher premium costs.
 
Nordberg said:
Yes, it has. Trump and the rightys have lied about it from the beginning to the end. The US has 30 percent of the Corona deaths in the world while being 4 percent of the population. Those undeniably clear numbers shows what a mishandled disaster the US has been. No nation is close to the mess we have and we are getting worse. I suppose a counter-argument is countries with universal healthcare have done a better job.
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Europe has as many or more deaths than the US does. That's a fair comparison not a country by country one. I bet China has way more but they're covering the extent of their outbreak up--still.

So, no, universal healthcare has made little or no difference. What does make a difference is population density.
 
T. A. Gardner said:
Are you that.... Whatever.

It was an analogy. Most Obamacare providers are now companies that control costs by limiting services and controlling the network of providers they pay to very carefully so their overall costs are minimized. This means you have long wait times for service, may have to drive many miles to see a doctor in the network, that sort of thing. Do anything out-of-network and you end up stuck with the whole bill. You might have heard of people lately getting whopping big bills their insurer won't pay for COVID 19... This is the sort of company likely telling them that.
The comparison to auto insurers like the General and Titan is apt. Those insurers do the same thing. Poor service, a very strictly set coverage, higher premium costs.
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You apparently know almost nothing about the ACA. Let's start with who is offering plans. I guess, for example, that Blue Cross Blue Shield is the same as General Insurance. LOL at you. Every single plan offered under the ACA has limits for out of pocket expenses. When you reach that limit, regardless of whether it is in or out of network, you will not pay anything additional for covered expenses. And hospitalizations for Covid-19 are covered by every single ACA plan. Period. Where I live, I have 66 plans to choose from. The WORST plans have an out of pocket limit of $8,150 dollars. Your information is false.
 
Concart said:
You apparently know almost nothing about the ACA. Let's start with who is offering plans. I guess, for example, that Blue Cross Blue Shield is the same as General Insurance. LOL at you. Every single plan offered under the ACA has limits for out of pocket expenses. When you reach that limit, regardless of whether it is in or out of network, you will not pay anything additional for covered expenses. And hospitalizations for Covid-19 are covered by every single ACA plan. Period. Where I live, I have 66 plans to choose from. The WORST plans have an out of pocket limit of $8,150 dollars. Your information is false.
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It is you that hasn't done your homework. The providers vary by state and county across the US. BC/BS does not directly participate today. Their subsidiary Anthem (like a General car insurance spinoff) does. Molina and Centere (aka Ambetter) are two other major providers. Much of the US has just one or two providers in 2020.

FEATURE-IMAGE-Two-Thirds-of-ACA-Marketplace-Enrollees-Can-Choose-From-At-Least-Three-Insurers-in-2020_1.png


So, while you may have "66 plans" those are likely offered by a mere handful of companies you can count on the fingers of one hand with fingers left over. The overall average for the US as a whole is about 4.5 providers right now.

Out-of-pocket expenses is a meaningless figure to the program. Sure, it's important to you, but somebody still has to pay the bill. And, that bill has grown significantly in size since Obamacare took effect.
 
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