Right to work...for LESS

[Bfgrn]

Human nature has not suddenly changed. The need for unions will never expire...

'Right to Work' for LESS

Extremist groups, right-wing politicians and their corporate backers want to weaken the power of workers and their unions through so-called "right to work" laws. Their efforts are a partisan political ploy that undermines the basic rights of workers. By making unions weaker, these laws lower wages and living standards for all workers in the state. By many measures, the quality of life is worse in states with "right to work" laws. Wages are lower, poverty and lack of insurance are higher, education is weaker—even infant mortality and the likelihood of being killed on the job are higher.

States with "Right to Work Laws Have:

Lower Wages and Incomes

• The average worker in states with "right to work" laws makes $1,540 a year less when all other factors are removed than workers in other states.1

• Median household income in states with these laws is $6,437 less than in other states ($46,402 vs. $52,839).2

• In states with "right to work" laws, 26.7 percent of jobs are in low-wage occupations, compared with 19.5 percent of jobs in other states.3

Less Job-Based Health Insurance Coverage

• People in states with "right to work" laws are more likely to be uninsured (16.8 percent, compared with 13.1 percent overall; among children, it’s 10.8 percent vs. 7.5 percent).4

• They’re less likely to have job-based health insurance than people in other states (56.2 percent, compared with 60.1 percent).5

• Only 50.7 percent of employers in states with these laws offer insurance coverage to their employees, compared with 55.2 percent in other states. That difference is even more significant among small employers (with fewer than 50 workers)—only 34.4 percent of them offer workers health insurance, compared with 41.7 percent of small employers in other states.6

Higher Poverty and Infant Mortality Rates

• Poverty rates are higher in states with "right to work" laws (15.3 percent overall and 21.5 percent for children), compared with poverty rates of 13.1 percent overall and 18.1 percent for children in states without these laws.7

• The infant mortality rate is 15 percent higher in states with these laws.8

Less Investment in Education

• States with "right to work" laws spend $3,392 less per pupil on elementary and secondary education than other states, and students are less likely to be performing at their appropriate grade level in math and reading.9

Higher Rates of Death on the Job

• The rate of workplace deaths is 36 percent higher in states with these laws, according to data from the Bureau of Labor Statistics.10

1 Economic Policy Institute.
2 U.S. Census Bureau, Table H-8. Median Household Income by State.
3 CFED, Asset and Opportunity Scorecard.
4 Kaiser Family Foundation.
5 Ibid.
6 Ibid.
7 Census Bureau, POV46: Poverty Status by State: 2010, related children under 18; Table 19. Percent of Persons in Poverty, by State: 2008, 2009 and 2010.
8 Kaiser Family Foundation.
9 National Education Association, Rankings & Estimates–Rankings of the States 2011 and Estimates of School Statistics 2012, December 2011; CFED, Asset & Opportunity Scorecard.
10 AFL-CIO, Death on the Job: The Toll of Neglect, April 2012.

"With all their faults, trade unions have done more for humanity than any other organization of men that ever existed"
Clarence Darrow

 

[007]

Such dishonest posting!!
Unions protect union members and often violently assault non union workers.

Union workers do less work, often substandard work, and get paid more.

After the union has rifled their paycheck to maintain the lifestyles of the rich and famous union bosses, are they better off?

You know, the bottom line?
What comes home?

When I was expelled from local 223 for being English( 223 apparently is an Irish union), I was hired into a management role by the Irish company I used to work for( owned by real Irish, not a bunch of plastic paddies who have never visited Ireland)!
This move doubled my income!!

A slightly lower income however is better than no income isn't it?

 

[PostmodernProphet]

we could end that disparity by making Right To Work national........

 

[Bfgrn]

we could end that disparity by making Right To Work national........

Not until I join YOUR union, the Monica Lewinsky's for the opulent...

PostmodernProphet Local #000

 

[Bfgrn]

Such dishonest posting!!
Unions protect union members and often violently assault non union workers.

Union workers do less work, often substandard work, and get paid more.

After the union has rifled their paycheck to maintain the lifestyles of the rich and famous union bosses, are they better off?

You know, the bottom line?
What comes home?

When I was expelled from local 223 for being English( 223 apparently is an Irish union), I was hired into a management role by the Irish company I used to work for( owned by real Irish, not a bunch of plastic paddies who have never visited Ireland)!
This move doubled my income!!

A slightly lower income however is better than no income isn't it?

Right wing pea brain propaganda from a right wing pea brain.

"We're going to crush labor as a political entity"
Grover Norquist - Republican economic guru and co-author of the GOP's 'Contract with America'

 

[007]

Right wing pea brain propaganda from a right wing pea brain.

"We're going to crush labor as a political entity"
Grover Norquist - Republican economic guru and co-author of the GOP's 'Contract with America'

So you prefer to see union only workers.

What happens to the person the unions won't hire?
The guy who is the wrong race?
The guy who works too hard and makes the others look bad?
Grovel to unions or starve?
If they don't kill you sooner.

 

[midcan5]

If you notice the states that have the highest living standards and best education are not right to work states. Right to work is a euphemism for corporate power over its workers lives. Having worked in a union in my early career they are the generally fair and work for the employee. But willing slaves are the best employees and having Americans fight against fellow Americans is in the corporation's interest.

The book below helps explain how corporations managed to get Americans versus American workers. Propaganda works. Let's hope this motivates workers and they go back to fighting for all Americans not simply doing the wishes of money power.

"And yet over the course of the decade the old skepticism toward business that had been born in the Great Depression and reawakened for a new generation in the Vietnam era finally began to disappear. The economic transformations of the decade would be interpreted through the framework of the free market vision. The 1970s campaigns to revive the image of capitalism among college students bore fruit in the 1980s. Universities created new centers for the study of business themes such as entrepreneurship. Students in Free Enterprise, a group started in 1975 to bring students together to "discuss what they might do to counteract the stultifying criticism of American business," thrived on small college campuses, funded by companies like Coors, Dow Chemical, and Walmart (as well as the Business Roundtable). The group organized battles of the bands, at which prizes would be doled out to the best pro-business rock anthems, helped silkscreen T-shirts with pro-capitalist messages, and created skits based on Milton Friedman's writings, which college students would perform in local elementary schools. In the workplace, the decline of the old manufacturing cities of [he North and Midwest and the rise of the sprawling suburbs of the Sunbelt metropolises marked the rise of a new economic culture, dominated by companies such as Walmart and Home Depot and Barnes & Noble." Kim Phillips-Fein ('Invisible Hands')

 

[PostmodernProphet]

Not until I join YOUR union, the Monica Lewinsky's for the opulent...

I seem to recall that Monica was a Democrat.....

 

[PostmodernProphet]

Indiana became a right to work state recently.....did unemployment go up or down in Indiana since it passed?.....

 

[Mott the Hoople]

Indiana became a right to work state recently.....did unemployment go up or down in Indiana since it passed?.....

They went up. Indiana has the highest growth rate of minimum wage jobs in the Midwest since they became a RTK state.

Here's a list of RTK States and their rankings by Median Household Income.

Alabama (46) $41,415
Arizona (30) $46,709
Arkansas (48) $38,758
Florida (37) $44,299
Georgia (33) $46,007
Idaho (40) $43,341
Indiana (31) $46,438
Iowa (24) $49,427
Kansas (26) $48,964
Louisianna (44) $41,734
Mississippi (50) $36,919
Nebraska (22) $50,296
Nevada (27) $48,927
North Carolina (39) $43,916
North Dakota (20) $51, 704
Oklahoma (41) $43,225
South Carolina (42) $42, 367
South Dakota (28) $48,321
Tennessee (45) $41,693
Texas (25) $49,392
Utah (14) $55, 869
Virginia (7) $61,882
Wyoming (13) $56,322

That's an average ranking of RTK States of 32. That's only 7 States in the top 25 in Median Household Income and only 1 State in the top ten. The average median household income in RTK State is $46,867

By way of comparision there are only 8 non RTK State in the bottom 25 of median household income and only 2 (KY and WV) are in the bottom 10. The average household median income for non-RTK States is $54, 185. So on average a person living on an RTK State has a median household income $8,000/year more than a non-RTK State and $4,000 more than the national median household income of $50,502.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_U.S._states_by_income#States_ranked_by_median_household_income

 

[Crashk]

So you prefer to see union only workers.

What happens to the person the unions won't hire?
The guy who is the wrong race?
The guy who works too hard and makes the others look bad?
Grovel to unions or starve?
If they don't kill you sooner.

Unions don't hire workers the company does. If that person is lazy the union can only protect him for so long.

You must have been that lazy worker that the union refuses to back after you got into trouble 2 or 3 times.

The rest of your post is pure bullshit. As is your 'story'.


If we're going to have a global economy then we must have a global labor union or coalition of global unions to protect worker's rights.
Otherwise we'll all become low-wage slaves like those being produced in Right to Slave states.

 

[Crashk]

The bigger picture here is to destroy the Democratic Party's base. To destroy unions, which back democrats, and to cause worker instability and fear. Not to mention to lower the standard of living for the 99%. The more poverty the right can cause the better chance they have at gaining power.

 

[Damocles]

The bigger picture here is to destroy the Democratic Party's base. To destroy unions, which back democrats, and to cause worker instability and fear. Not to mention to lower the standard of living for the 99%. The more poverty the right can cause the better chance they have at gaining power.

The main force in the destruction of the Union are the laws which gave everybody the same protections without the compulsory dues. The assumption is that it was bad righties who killed the unions, but it wasn't. We don't have to fight for the protections that the unions traditionally fought for, they are encoded in legislation largely passed by lefties...

http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs...sons-why-michigans-right-to-work-law-matters/

 

[Bonestorm]

The main force in the destruction of the Union are the laws which gave everybody the same protections without the compulsory dues. The assumption is that it was bad righties who killed the unions, but it wasn't. We don't have to fight for the protections that the unions traditionally fought for, they are encoded in legislation largely passed by lefties...

http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs...sons-why-michigans-right-to-work-law-matters/

What laws are those and when were they enacted?

The better argument is that employers voluntarily giving employees benefits that unions had to fight to secure as a means of union avoidance helped to diminish the need for union representation. Also, too, Republican-controlled National Labor Relations Board for 20 of the last 32 years helped quite a bit to kill unions and unionization efforts.

 

[PostmodernProphet]

They went up.

as expected, you lied...
http://chart.apis.google.com/chart?chxt=x,y&cht=lc&chs=594x200&chxs=0,666666,11,.3|1,666666,11,-1&chd=s:aaZaaZbcddeffghhiihiiiikkkkklmmllkkkkjijjiihhhgggggfeeeddcbbbaacbbccbbbbbbbbbabZZZaaaZZZYYYXYXWXWWXVVWWWWWVVVVUVUVVUUUUUUUUTUUUUTTTTUUVVVWWYYabccccdccccccddcdddefeeedcccbcbbbbaabaaaaZZZYYYYYYYXXXXWWXXWVWVWWVWVWXWXXXYYYZYabceeghkmpqruuuvwxwwvwwwvuuvuuwussrssssssrqpppoooopomnm,ZYYYYYXXYYabcdddcbbaaaabcddefffeedccccccddTUUUVWWWWWXXWWWVUUUUUVWWWVVVVVUUUUUUTTSSRQQQQQQRRRRRQQPONOOOPPPPPOONNNOOOPPPPPOOOPPPPOOOOPQRRSTUUVXYZZaaaaaZZYZYYYYYZaabbbbaZZZZZZZaaaaaabbaaaaaaaaaZZZYYYZZZZYYXXWWWWWWWWWXXWXXYZZbcdfhkorvy011100zz000zzyyxwwvutsrrrrstttssrqponnnopon_&chxl=01990||||||||||||||||||||||||1992||||||||||||||||||||||||1994||||||||||||||||||||||||1996||||||||||||||||||||||||1998||||||||||||||||||||||||2000||||||||||||||||||||||||2002||||||||||||||||||||||||2004||||||||||||||||||||||||2006||||||||||||||||||||||||2008||||||||||||||||||||||||2010||||||||||||||||||||||||2012|||||||||||10%|2.5%|5.0%|7.5%|10.0%|12.5%&chg=8.76,20.00,1,2,0.00,0&chco=dddddd,0000cc&chf=c,ls,0,ffffff,0.0219,f5f5f5,0.0328,ffffff,0.4343,f5f5f5,0.0328,ffffff,0.2628,f5f5f5,0.0693,ffffff,0.1423

 

[Bfgrn]

as expected, you lied...
http://chart.apis.google.com/chart?chxt=x,y&cht=lc&chs=594x200&chxs=0,666666,11,.3|1,666666,11,-1&chd=s:aaZaaZbcddeffghhiihiiiikkkkklmmllkkkkjijjiihhhgggggfeeeddcbbbaacbbccbbbbbbbbbabZZZaaaZZZYYYXYXWXWWXVVWWWWWVVVVUVUVVUUUUUUUUTUUUUTTTTUUVVVWWYYabccccdccccccddcdddefeeedcccbcbbbbaabaaaaZZZYYYYYYYXXXXWWXXWVWVWWVWVWXWXXXYYYZYabceeghkmpqruuuvwxwwvwwwvuuvuuwussrssssssrqpppoooopomnm,ZYYYYYXXYYabcdddcbbaaaabcddefffeedccccccddTUUUVWWWWWXXWWWVUUUUUVWWWVVVVVUUUUUUTTSSRQQQQQQRRRRRQQPONOOOPPPPPOONNNOOOPPPPPOOOPPPPOOOOPQRRSTUUVXYZZaaaaaZZYZYYYYYZaabbbbaZZZZZZZaaaaaabbaaaaaaaaaZZZYYYZZZZYYXXWWWWWWWWWXXWXXYZZbcdfhkorvy011100zz000zzyyxwwvutsrrrrstttssrqponnnopon_&chxl=01990||||||||||||||||||||||||1992||||||||||||||||||||||||1994||||||||||||||||||||||||1996||||||||||||||||||||||||1998||||||||||||||||||||||||2000||||||||||||||||||||||||2002||||||||||||||||||||||||2004||||||||||||||||||||||||2006||||||||||||||||||||||||2008||||||||||||||||||||||||2010||||||||||||||||||||||||2012|||||||||||10%|2.5%|5.0%|7.5%|10.0%|12.5%&chg=8.76,20.00,1,2,0.00,0&chco=dddddd,0000cc&chf=c,ls,0,ffffff,0.0219,f5f5f5,0.0328,ffffff,0.4343,f5f5f5,0.0328,ffffff,0.2628,f5f5f5,0.0693,ffffff,0.1423

An unlabeled chart with no link to the source. If you are telling the truth, a link will follow promptly.

 

[Bonestorm]

Unemployment in Indiana went up and then went down, largely in line with the national average. Indiana's neighbor to the East that has no "right to work" law performed better than the national average so I'm not sure what the point is.

 

[Damocles]

What laws are those and when were they enacted?

Well, first we'll have to determine exactly what unions fought for, and what was that Dung? Over a period of time I believe that we'd have stopped child labor without unions, but overtime laws? The 40 hour week? Do you think that one might have been suggested first by unions? How about vacation time? If you have a certain number of employees you have to give health insurance? Minimum wage? Safety laws? Discrimination laws? These are laws, protections unions fought for that over time became codified.

The better argument is that employers voluntarily giving employees benefits that unions had to fight to secure as a means of union avoidance helped to diminish the need for union representation. Also, too, Republican-controlled National Labor Relations Board for 20 of the last 32 years helped quite a bit to kill unions and unionization efforts.

The better argument would be that, if that was what happened. However, laws were passed, they give me many of the same protections that unions used to fight for... Nowadays unions are largely a branch of one of the parties that you are forced to partake in without regard to your right to assemble. Force to assemble is not the same thing as exercising a right.

 

[007]

Unions don't hire workers the company does. If that person is lazy the union can only protect him for so long.

You must have been that lazy worker that the union refuses to back after you got into trouble 2 or 3 times.

The rest of your post is pure bullshit. As is your 'story'.


If we're going to have a global economy then we must have a global labor union or coalition of global unions to protect worker's rights.
Otherwise we'll all become low-wage slaves like those being produced in Right to Slave states.

I gave the reason, local 223 refer to themselves as the Irish union, I was ejected from the union for being British.
The Irish owner of the company hired me in a management role and doubled my pay.
Unlikely that he would do that had I been lazy.

Unions reject many people for many reasons then use violence against those people for earning outside the union structure.

 

[Bonestorm]

Well, first we'll have to determine exactly what unions fought for, and what was that Dung? Over a period of time I believe that we'd have stopped child labor without unions, but overtime laws? The 40 hour week? Do you think that one might have been suggested first by unions? How about vacation time? If you have a certain number of employees you have to give health insurance? Minimum wage? Safety laws? Discrimination laws? These are laws, protections unions fought for that over time became codified.

When were they enacted? The FLSA was enacted in 1938 and it did a lot of what you have up there: overtime laws, 44 hour work week, child labor prohibition, minimum wage. There is no federal law that I know of requiring vacation time. OSHA passed in 1970. Anti-discrimination in 1964.

So, like, unions haven't fought for that stuff since for quite a while. They fight for other things, like better wages, pensions, workplace democratization, progressive discipline, for cause termination and lots and lots of other things that are not addressed in any legislation.

It's a bad argument.

The better argument would be that, if that was what happened. However, laws were passed, they give me many of the same protections that unions used to fight for... Nowadays unions are largely a branch of one of the parties that you are forced to partake in without regard to your right to assemble. Force to assemble is not the same thing as exercising a right.

Uh, that is what happened. Also, too, no one is required to pay for the political activities of the unions and no one is forced to partake in their political activities. They just have to pay for the work the union does to secure the benefits all employees enjoy.