robert macnamara dead...finally

meme said:
we are constantly shouted at that Liberals are some of the most tolerant and compassionate on the earth..

yet they are some of the biggest grave dancers of anyone they don't like I have ever seen..

very eye opening trait and quite a sick one to boot..
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I am not a liberal (or at least not a typical liberal). But I would dance on Robert MacNamara's grave with pleasure. And I would be happy to pour a bottle of good scotch over his grave. But only if I can strain it thru my kidneys first.


MacNamara is responsible for the worst of the Vietnam war. He was constantly over-riding what his military people told him in favor of PR and politics. A lot of good young men died because of Robert MacNamara. And even more were disabled by physical and mental wounds.

The man is a disgrace. And I have no problem saying so. Just because he is dead does not mean any of the facts changed. I would have said the same thing when he was alive.
 
meme said:
yet they are some of the biggest grave dancers of anyone they don't like I have ever seen..
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Its not that I dislike him. I hate the man. I know too many people who suffered because of what he did. And I don't dislike him because of his political affiliation like you would do. I despise him for what he did and for the result of his actions.

You dislike Osama. MacNamara killed or injured far more of our citizens than Osama did on 9/11/01.
 
WinterBorn said:
I am not a liberal (or at least not a typical liberal). But I would dance on Robert MacNamara's grave with pleasure. And I would be happy to pour a bottle of good scotch over his grave. But only if I can strain it thru my kidneys first.


MacNamara is responsible for the worst of the Vietnam war. He was constantly over-riding what his military people told him in favor of PR and politics. A lot of good young men died because of Robert MacNamara. And even more were disabled by physical and mental wounds.

The man is a disgrace. And I have no problem saying so. Just because he is dead does not mean any of the facts changed. I would have said the same thing when he was alive.
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ok, you remember that saying, you don't speak ill of the dead? well it seems that went out the door along with manners..no wonder the kids of this generation is so rude and self centered...
 
"you remember that saying, you don't speak ill of the dead?"

Do you think that applies to everyone who has died?
 
meme said:
ok, you remember that saying, you don't speak ill of the dead? well it seems that went out the door along with manners..no wonder the kids of this generation is so rude and self centered...
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When they executed Ted Bundy or Saddam Hussein, did you hold to the "don't speak ill of the dead" rule?

If they find out tomorrow that bin Laden is dead, will you say only gentle good things about him?



I am not name-calling because I didn't like his personality. I am hoping he burns in hell for causing the deaths of tens of thousands of american soldiers.

Just think of MacNamara as the exception that proves the rule. And I will bet that I am far less rude in my posts than you are in yours.
 
WinterBorn said:
Shhhhhh......don't say anything bad about someone after they die. It makes the kids of today rude and self-centered.
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Everyone's entiteled to their own conclusions and for the most part, they are based on their own life experiances.

War's were never meant to be fought, with the original goal being a stalemate.
 
WinterBorn said:
When they executed Ted Bundy or Saddam Hussein, did you hold to the "don't speak ill of the dead" rule?

If they find out tomorrow that bin Laden is dead, will you say only gentle good things about him?QUOTE]
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No, I wasn't sad about Bundy or Hussein and won't be about Bin Laden..but I also won't start a thread about it so I can gloat about it..just me I guess..but you all carry on..
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USFREEDOM911 said:
Everyone's entiteled to their own conclusions and for the most part, they are based on their own life experiances.

War's were never meant to be fought, with the original goal being a stalemate.
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I should not have stooped to the level I did in responding to your previous post. My apologies.

But you are absolutely correct about wars. If you must fight a war fight it to win and take care of your soldiers.
 
meme said:
No, I wasn't sad about Bundy or Hussein and won't be about Bin Laden..but I also won't start a thread about it so I can gloat about it..just me I guess..but you all carry on..
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Yes I will. The death of some people makes the world a better place.

MacNamara over-ruled his military leaders and did not allow them to fight to win. By doing so he caused untold suffering among the soldiers and their families.

I have seen right-wingers come unglued if someone so much as whispers a cross word about the men and women of our military.
 
WinterBorn said:
I should not have stooped to the level I did in responding to your previous post. My apologies.

But you are absolutely correct about wars. If you must fight a war fight it to win and take care of your soldiers.
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WWI and WWII were horrendous wars.
Everyone thought they were the wars to end all wars; because they here so horrific.
But then someone decided to have "War-lite" and all of a sudden, they weren't as bad.

Now look what happens.
 
Ballad of Penny Evans
by Steve Goodman


My name is Penny Evans and my age is twenty-one
I'm a widow of the war that was fought in Vietnam
I have two baby daughters and I do the best I can
They say the war is over but I think it's just begun

I remember I was seventeen when first I met my Bill
At his father's grand piano we played old 'Heart and Soul'
I only knew the left hand part, he knew the right so well
He's the only boy I slept with, and the only one I will

First we had a baby girl, we had two good years
And next the warning notice came, we parted without tears
Then it's nine months from our last goodbye our second child appears
And it's ten months and a telegram confirming all our fears

So once a month I get a check from some army bureaucrat
And once a month I tear it up and mail the damn thing back
Do they think that makes it all right? Do they think I'll fall for that?
They can keep their bloody money, it won't bring my Billy back

I never cared for politics, speeches I don't understand
Likewise I'll take no charity from any living man
But tonight there's fifty thousand gone in that unhappy land
And fifty thousand 'Heart and Souls' being played with just one hand

My name is Penny Evans and my age is twenty-one
I'm a widow of the war that was fought in Vietnam
I have two baby daughters - thank God I have no son
They say the war is over but I think it's just begun





[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j6W_a2U-bIU"]YouTube - Steve Goodman/Penny Evans[/ame]
 
Don't speak ill of the dead. Rubbish.

We'd be unable to write history books if such were the case. Imagine a book about Ghenghis Khan using these standards...
 
USFREEDOM911 said:
WWI and WWII were horrendous wars.
Everyone thought they were the wars to end all wars; because they here so horrific.
But then someone decided to have "War-lite" and all of a sudden, they weren't as bad.

Now look what happens.
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That is exactly right.
 
WinterBorn said:
That is exactly right.
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Wars should be horrific.
There should be so much carnage and destruction that everyone would think twice about going into one; but now it's all about the stalemate and not crossing over the line, by too much.

The Militaries main job is to blow things up and to destroy their opponents, by whatever it takes.
After the Military is done, then let the Politicians step in and play diplomate.
 
Damocles said:
Don't speak ill of the dead. Rubbish.

We'd be unable to write history books if such were the case. Imagine a book about Ghenghis Khan using these standards...
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what I was speaking about is the grave dancing that I find disturbing..
 
USFREEDOM911 said:
Wars should be horrific.
There should be so much carnage and destruction that everyone would think twice about going into one; but now it's all about the stalemate and not crossing over the line, by too much.

The Militaries main job is to blow things up and to destroy their opponents, by whatever it takes.
After the Military is done, then let the Politicians step in and play diplomate.
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That is why I opposed the hiding of the returning bodies of the dead soldiers. We need to show the flag draped caskets on the tarmac. We need to show the endless parade of funerals.

For every flag draped casket there is a family in mourning. It is not something that ends with the funeral or even the war. It is something that causes pain at every christmas family gathering, at every family reunion, and around every thanksgiving table.

War is not about glorious conquest. War is about young men and women dying in pain. It is about having our young men and women do horrible things to other young men and women. It is about horrors and atrocities.

The sooner we all learn that the sooner we can stop having wars.
 
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