It was a complex decision and at the time it was also a popular one. It's idiotic simple minded assholes who attempt to paint it as Bush being a war hawk "cuz he was seeking revenge for daddy Bush".
Romney: Why tax cut is a bad deal
- Thread starter Chapdog
- Start date
It was a complex decision and at the time it was also a popular one. It's idiotic simple minded assholes who attempt to paint it as Bush being a war hawk "cuz he was seeking revenge for daddy Bush".
Bfgrn
New member
'Uncertainty' is conservative collective rhetoric attempting to control the language and frame the issue. It is BULLSHIT.
ANY business owner, CEO or captain of industry that makes expansion/contraction, hire/fire decisions based on a personal annual payment that may vary by +/- 4% IS a pinhead.
Business owners, CEO's or captains of industry make those decisions based solely on their business ledger, market analysis and supply and demand.
A decade of Bush's tax cuts created ZERO private sector job growth. Maybe your Monica Lewinsky act isn't enough. Why don't you try licking rich people's assholes.
Dixie - In Memoriam
New member
You guys have a really sick fascination with the anus and feces lately. I mean, like across the board! Has anyone else noticed this? How's that Hopey-Changey thing working out?
You can spew your whiny ass rhetoric all you like, your Messiah and his Mentor stood up there the other day and told you why we had to extend Bush's tax cuts. Until January, your Democrat Party still maintains FULL CONTROL of majority in both the House AND Senate! Why didn't Nancy and Harry just take a vote and decline on renewing the tax cuts? If that's what you pinheads believe is the best thing to do, why didn't you do it? YOU'RE IN CHARGE! Your own leaders spent their time going into great detail about why it is crucial to the economy and private sector job growth, to extend the Bush tax cuts for everyone. I know that all seems surreal to you, but it actually did happen, you didn't just dream it.
Bfgrn
New member
Here's your problem Dixie...Obama is not my Messiah. The tax cuts for the rich will NOT create jobs. A decade of Bush tax cuts for the rich created ZERO private sector job growth. Tax cuts for the rich is not fiscal conservatism or fiscal responsibility. It add MORE to the deficit and debt than either Bush's TARP or Obama's Stimulus bill. I 'hoped' Obama was another FDR or JFK. Instead we got Bush II.
cawacko
Well-known member
Wow.
I can remember back in college classes talking about how the stock market and businesses react to economic and even world uncertainty. I wish they had told me then that it was conservative collective rhetoric bullshit.
Not sure if that Lewinsky comment is directed at me personally but I've spent too much time in LA. I like them thin. She has too much meat on her bones for my personal preference. And I'm really not sure about licking rich people's assholes. Is that a shot at living in San Franicsco? I mean there are a lot of rich people here and a lot of asshole licking going on I'll give you that. However I'm not rich nor do I find licking ass to be my thing.
Bfgrn
New member
Yes, stock market and businesses react to economic and even world uncertainty. Someone's annual PERSONAL tax that could go up or down 4% is not reason for uncertainty. This is such bullshit. This 'uncertainty' rhetoric is Republican talking points. They are a bunch of parrots, how can you be so gullible? You right wing morons are painting business people as a bunch of insecure cry babies that would slit their own throats over this. If they are spending any time even thinking about this, they're liable to miss a 4% opportunity. Only the on your knees worshipers of the rich are having angst over it...
Cancel 2016.2
The Almighty
FYI... part of that market analysis and supply and demand they look at... is based on expectations of consumer spending.
If a consumer is expected to get taxed at and effective tax rate of 17% in year one and that expected effective rate is going to go to 19% due to a change in tax brackets..... what happens to their expected disposable income?
Nigel must have been a liberal arts major
Dixie - In Memoriam
New member
Doesn't sound like MY problem at all. You're free to reject your Messiah.
Well why isn't that what Clinton and Obama told us the other day? They said the exact opposite. And let's be clear about something, when it comes to the debt, you really don't give a shit. You see it as nothing more than a hammer to bash conservatives over the head with in these kind of conversations. Other than that, you couldn't care less about the debt, deficit, or spending.
Yeah, I understand, your Messiah let you down.
Uncertainty about the economy generally and uncertainty about tax rates are two separate and distinct things. First, there is no real uncertainty about taxes. Everyone knows full well what happens in two years. Taxes go up. To the extent there is any uncertainty, these businesses that are so concerned about uncertainty can avoid that uncertainty by making clear to their members of Congress that they would prefer the increased rates of current law to uncertainty attendant to changing the law.
People aren't hiring because the economy sucks and shows little sign of significant improvement in the near term, not because marginal tax rates might increase a few percentage points in a few years.
Here is where Republicans will screw themselves...
Romney is the best bet at beating Obama, however... He does not belive the proper ferrytail to win the Republican nomination.
He is one of them Mormons!
Enough of a componant of the Southern Republicans will be too prejudice against his religen for him to ever get the nomination.
Romney is the best bet at beating Obama, however... He does not belive the proper ferrytail to win the Republican nomination.
He is one of them Mormons!
Enough of a componant of the Southern Republicans will be too prejudice against his religen for him to ever get the nomination.
Russellbor
Verified User
I say we quit pussy-footing around and get serious. Corporate profits have exceeded pre 2008 levels. Lets get rid of the uncertainty once and for all. Don't renew the tax cuts on top earners, double them up, or hell, triple it up! Let the ones who got the most out of the bail outs pay for them. In the mean time eliminate income taxes on singles earning less than 40k a year and families earning less than 55k a year. The resulting increase in the personal incomes of those who will pump it back into the economy will more than offset the chilling effect on investment that the higher taxes on the top 5% will have. Even as the billions flow out from the ivory towers into the hands of government debtors, billions more will flow up the food chain to replace it.
That, of course, would only be phase one of the "America Gets Serious" act.
Phase Two: $4k tax per head on all outsourced jobs. This money will be used to replace lost tax revenue to the general fund as well as dollars lost from soc sec and medicare to outsourcing. Corp. America will still be spending around 65%-85% less on wages and benefits and will still benefit from the lack of regulations in the countries that the jobs are outsourced to. If that's not good enough for them too fucking bad. Get over it.
Phase Three: Half of all campaign contributions go to supporting Obama care. That ought to cover things well into the next millennium.
Penalties for tax evaders and dodgers - death to the CEO. Hanging or firing squad preferably.
There. Uncertainty eliminated.
That, of course, would only be phase one of the "America Gets Serious" act.
Phase Two: $4k tax per head on all outsourced jobs. This money will be used to replace lost tax revenue to the general fund as well as dollars lost from soc sec and medicare to outsourcing. Corp. America will still be spending around 65%-85% less on wages and benefits and will still benefit from the lack of regulations in the countries that the jobs are outsourced to. If that's not good enough for them too fucking bad. Get over it.
Phase Three: Half of all campaign contributions go to supporting Obama care. That ought to cover things well into the next millennium.
Penalties for tax evaders and dodgers - death to the CEO. Hanging or firing squad preferably.
There. Uncertainty eliminated.
Dixie - In Memoriam
New member
The economy sucks and shows little signs of significant improvement because we are $13 trillion in debt, and Congress continues to spend money at an alarming rate! I've not heard the first Democrat talk about seriously cutting spending, or cutting the budget. All Democrats seem to want to do, is add new government programs, and spend even more money we don't have.
With taxes and economic stimulation, it's really simple... the more money people get to keep in their pockets, the more money they have available to stimulate the economy. Raising taxes helps to stimulate the economy, like water helps to build a fire!
Now, there are a bazillion reasons people hire. There is no way to say that lowering tax rates will certainly cause people to hire, but it can indeed be a factor. It's not just from a monetary standpoint, because they will save $5k on taxes next year, they can afford to hire a new employee... that's static economic thinking again, which pinheads are famous for. When money is returned to the people, they tend to spend it. When they do, business increases, orders increase, profits begin to rise. As this all starts to take off, the astute businessperson might seize the opportunity to expand, anticipating great returns on their investment, because business is coming back. It is the optimism created by spurred economic activity, caused by tax cuts, which may or may not create new jobs, depending on the business. Some businesses do not prosper well in a vibrant economy... title loans... pawn shops... a tax cut and economic prosperity, might actually cause them to have to lay people off. The point is, nothing is static... everything is constantly changing. Regardless of any argument you can make, tax cuts always spark economic growth and activity.
Dixie - In Memoriam
New member
Lot easier said that done. I see NUMEROUS flaws in your plan right off the bat, and if I can see these problems, I am sure people in power see them as well. Tripling the tax on the upper 5% will not gain you much tax revenue, as most people in that group would simply avoid earning income. By cutting out the remaining middle class who pay taxes, you eliminated about $2 trillion in tax revenues. So what draconian cuts in our budget are you going to make, to compensate for the greatly reduced amount of tax revenues we'll be operating on? Let's go to Phase 2 of your stupidity, while you ruminate on that....
You can't tax outsourced jobs. There's these pesky little things called CAFTA, NAFTA, and GATT. They are laws passed by our Congress, which allow private enterprise to be conducted in nations elsewhere. So you would first have to repeal all 3 of these, and I am quite sure it would cause a bit of a diplomacy problem with the treaty nations. I don't suppose you've come up with a plan for that, have you? Then there is the matter of how you figure out the numbers, and ways to close any loopholes, and there are plenty. But none of this would ever come to fruition anyway, because the SCOTUS would rule that you don't have the Constitutional power to tax outsourced labor. On to Phase 3 of Stupid....
Why should you get to decide that half of the money I donate to my personal candidate of choice, has to fund a program which is about to become extinct? I mean, what planet do you live on, and what the hell are they smoking there?
Cancel 2016.2
The Almighty
If a consumer is expected to get taxed at and effective tax rate of 17% in year one and that expected effective rate is going to go to 19% due to a change in tax brackets..... what happens to their expected disposable income?
Now apply that answer to all consumers.
Then maybe you will be able to comprehend why businesses being uncertain about future tax rates will effect the economy. Then maybe you will understand why consumers might hold back on spending.
But no.... that is asking too much of you. You will once again ignore the above and continue parroting what your Dem masters told you.
You're just saying that tax increases are bad for a recovering economy, not that "uncertainty" about taxes prevents business from hiring.
The bottom line is that Republicans like tax cuts and think tax increases are always a bad thing. instead of just saying that they have instead settled on this nonsense about "uncertainty." It's stupid.
Russellbor
Verified User
Tax the top dogs more to offset what ever losses are not made up by having the 2 trillion pumped back into the economy.
Screw diplomacy, we have more nukes and b-1 bombers. Let them get pissed, we'll just rattle our swords a little louder and drown them out.
Don't call it an outsource tax, call it a fuck-you-to-everyone-who-shipped-jobs-overseas tax. Base it on whatever you want, just get the money back here where it belongs.
In the mean time I'll be getting Alcatraz spiffed up to use for the U.S. version of the Bastille. The heads can be chopped on fishermans warf and rolled into the bay to chum for sharks.
I could eat me some nice shark steaks just now.
Screw diplomacy, we have more nukes and b-1 bombers. Let them get pissed, we'll just rattle our swords a little louder and drown them out.
Don't call it an outsource tax, call it a fuck-you-to-everyone-who-shipped-jobs-overseas tax. Base it on whatever you want, just get the money back here where it belongs.
In the mean time I'll be getting Alcatraz spiffed up to use for the U.S. version of the Bastille. The heads can be chopped on fishermans warf and rolled into the bay to chum for sharks.
I could eat me some nice shark steaks just now.
Russellbor
Verified User
Tax the top dogs more to offset what ever losses are not made up by having the 2 trillion pumped back into the economy.
Screw diplomacy, we have more nukes and b-1 bombers. Let them get pissed, we'll just rattle our swords a little louder and drown them out.
Don't call it an outsource tax, call it a fuck-you-to-everyone-who-shipped-jobs-overseas tax. Base it on whatever you want, just get the money back here where it belongs.
In the mean time I'll be getting Alcatraz spiffed up to use for the U.S. version of the Bastille. The heads can be chopped on fishermans warf and rolled into the bay to chum for sharks.
I could eat me some nice shark steaks just now.
Screw diplomacy, we have more nukes and b-1 bombers. Let them get pissed, we'll just rattle our swords a little louder and drown them out.
Don't call it an outsource tax, call it a fuck-you-to-everyone-who-shipped-jobs-overseas tax. Base it on whatever you want, just get the money back here where it belongs.
In the mean time I'll be getting Alcatraz spiffed up to use for the U.S. version of the Bastille. The heads can be chopped on fishermans warf and rolled into the bay to chum for sharks.
I could eat me some nice shark steaks just now.
Bfgrn
New member
That's why food stamps and extending unemployment insurance are the best stimulus to the economy. For every dollar spent on food stamps, $1.73 is generated throughout the economy. Expanding unemployment benefits gets the next biggest bang for the buck. That's because, although the unemployed are already getting checks, they need to spend the money. For every dollar spent here, the economy would see a return of $1.64. The Bush tax cuts are a horrible deal on stimulus grounds, returning only 35 cents in new economic activity for each dollar we spend.
ref. ref.
Cancel 2016.2
The Almighty
No moron....
AGAIN.... If consumer spending on the whole is expected to decrease because of potential increases in taxes, then businesses will plan on lower growth rates and thus will reduce hiring expectations.
If consumer spending on the whole is expected to increase because of tax cuts, then business will have higher relative growth rates and thus will increase hiring expectations.
If businesses are uncertain of what will happen with taxes, they will err on the side of the lower growth rates due to the costs involved with hiring/firing.
That said, tax increases are NOT always a bad thing. We will see higher taxes due to the insane spending habits of the idiots in DC. It would have been preferred for the idiots to simply have created a policy that said 'we are extending all tax brackets for the next two years to help stimulate the economy, but in 2014 the rates on income over $250k will increase to 'x''
That would have been preferred. Because then businesses would know exactly what was going to happen. But as usual the idiots in DC simply pushed the problem into the future.