Ronald Reagan at 100: The Darker Legacy

WinterBorn said:
Oh, so the fact that you don't know who James Watts is means Reagan didn't make a mistake?

Your denial is amazing. No mistakes? lmao Talk about a koolaid drinker, you have a keg of it by your bed, huh Dixie.
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Oh, I know who James Watt is... is that who you were referring to? What fucking difference does it make? Did it matter that Obama appointed VAN JONES to his cabinet? 'Cause, I'll bet you that son of a bitch is FAR more corrupt and unethical than James Watt ever dreamed of being. But, the Big O gets a pass, while we pontificate on the horrors of Ronnie Reagan!
 
Yurt said:
dark side? dreadful? come on winterborn, that is not trying to demonize him?

the first thing on the list could be said of clinton and obama, yet its dreadful and dark for reagan to have done so...
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Saying there was a "dark side" is demonizing?

Who is the whining hissy-fitter now....
 
Dixie said:
I suppose, to a liberal nitwit pinhead, wanting to consider ketchup a vegetable in school lunches is much more controversial and scandalous than say... president FDR wanting to appoint two additional judges to the Supreme Court, so he could implement his socialist agenda, huh?
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We are not asking whether any other president made mistakes. YOu claim Reagan had no mistakes and no scandals.

Pointing at other presidents does not change what Reagan did.
 
Dixie said:
Oh, I know who James Watt is... is that who you were referring to? What fucking difference does it make? Did it matter that Obama appointed VAN JONES to his cabinet? 'Cause, I'll bet you that son of a bitch is FAR more corrupt and unethical than James Watt ever dreamed of being. But, the Big O gets a pass, while we pontificate on the horrors of Ronnie Reagan!
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Look Dixie, you are dancing a jig where none is necessary. I did not say Obama was a better president or that Reagan was a bad president.

I just said he wasn't perfect, despite what his worshippers like you say. And you jump in and PROVE what I said.

YOu claim Reagan had no mistakes. James Watt was a huge mistake. The fact that have been worse men in cabinets is debateable. But what is NOT debateable is that Watt was a mistake that Reagan made.
 
WinterBorn said:
Reagan did some great stuff. I admire a lot of what he did. But, like Mott, this idolizing him like the right does is sorta sick.

Yes, he did great stuff. He also supported murderous dictators, broke laws, lied about it, and helped create some ugly situations for us all over the world.

He wanted ketsup listed as a vegetable in school lunches.

He put Watts in as the secretary of the interior. Does anyone remember Watts' response to someone talking about the terrible decisions he made about use of federal lands? He actually said God was going to have judgement day soon, so we needn't worry about it.
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I was working in DC in the summer of 84 when that idiot Watts decided not to invite those heathen rock n rollers the Beach Boys to headline the 4th of July concert. Thank God Nancy intervened. There was a lot of great bands that played that day but the one that really stood out in my mind was Roy Clark. Man he put on a hell of a show. One of the best guitarist ever!
 
Yurt said:
btw winterborn, i would love for you explain how the ketchup is a vegetable is solely reagan's "mistake" makes him a bad president....i just read up on it and from that one source, it doesn't sound like reagan did anything stupid at all

http://www.straightdope.com/columns...a-usda-really-classify-ketchup-as-a-vegetable
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Eh, the subject has been seen as a joke, a mistake by the Reagan Administration, and more. If that falls by the wayside, there is plenty there to go with.

For the sake of the argument, I stand corrected and withdraw "ketsup" as a Reaganesque mistake.
 
Onceler said:
Reagan inspired a ton of confidence in people - that's no small thing for a leader. His persona was naturally suited for the Presidency.

However, his policies hurt many, many people. People tend to gloss over that when mythologizing his legacy.
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I agree they do. Reagan was was a mixed bag and many of his policies I can now say with 20:20 hind sight were not good for the nation but man was he charismatic. I really liked Ronnie.
 
Mott the Hoople said:
My favorite mythology about Reagan is that he won the cold war. Anyone who believes that is an idiot who knows nothing of modern history.
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i don't know of anyone who said he won the cold war single handedly, but there does appear to be many (liberals included) who believe he played a huge part....

How Reagan won the Cold War.
By Fred Kaplan

So, did Ronald Reagan bring on the end of the Cold War? Well, yes. Recently declassified documents leave no doubt about the matter.

The end of the Cold War may be the most oddball chapter in the history of the 20th century. How fitting, then, that the two most oddball leaders, Gorbachev and Reagan, made it come to pass.



http://www.slate.com/id/2102081/

click the link for more
 
Yurt said:
are you serious, there are numerous libs who profess obama to be amazing miracle worker...cbs just put up show about him calling him the president of the world....clinton was a miracle worker on the ecnomy and so forth....the only thing i see some libs saying negative about clinton is in regards to his dick. and even then, you get many libs saying its his private life and many libs crying foul over the "witchhunt"....he is by and large held up as a saint wrongly attacked by a vast right wing conspiracy....

i really don't think using dixie as an example for republicans or conservatives helps your theory out winterborn....
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I don't disagree that there are people who worship Obama and Clinton. I misspoke what I was trying to say. Despite the people who want to point at Obama or Clinton as examples of great presidents, there is nothing in my lifetime to come close to the fervor with which the members of the Church of The Gipper proclaim his name.

Any mention of negative things about Reagan brings out the dogs. And on this topic, Dixie is not rare.
 
WinterBorn said:
Look Dixie, you are dancing a jig where none is necessary. I did not say Obama was a better president or that Reagan was a bad president.

I just said he wasn't perfect, despite what his worshippers like you say. And you jump in and PROVE what I said.

YOu claim Reagan had no mistakes. James Watt was a huge mistake. The fact that have been worse men in cabinets is debateable. But what is NOT debateable is that Watt was a mistake that Reagan made.
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Reagan DIDN'T make any mistakes! You are trying to claim he wasn't perfect, and that's not hard to support... I agree, he wasn't PERFECT, no mortal man is! As for presidents, and actual presidential mistakes, Reagan was as close to perfect as it gets. The hyped up bullshit you have drummed up, should be a testament to how pathetic and stupid this argumentative line is. I mean really... his Interior Secretary appointment? That's all you got?
 
WinterBorn said:
I don't disagree that there are people who worship Obama and Clinton. I misspoke what I was trying to say. Despite the people who want to point at Obama or Clinton as examples of great presidents, there is nothing in my lifetime to come close to the fervor with which the members of the Church of The Gipper proclaim his name.

Any mention of negative things about Reagan brings out the dogs. And on this topic, Dixie is not rare.
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i've seen folks as USMB laud obama like he is christ, no matter what. i've also met some in my laugh who laud clinton like he did nothing wrong and seen them on message boards....i don't doubt your experience, but i think worshippers abound on both sides.

dixie is a far, far rightwing individual, the right can do no wrong and in fact he believes i'm a left wing wacko....i don't doubt there are others like dixie, but i just don't see it on the level you have. perhaps because i live in liberal cali on the coast
 
Dixie said:
Reagan DIDN'T make any mistakes! You are trying to claim he wasn't perfect, and that's not hard to support... I agree, he wasn't PERFECT, no mortal man is! As for presidents, and actual presidential mistakes, Reagan was as close to perfect as it gets. The hyped up bullshit you have drummed up, should be a testament to how pathetic and stupid this argumentative line is. I mean really... his Interior Secretary appointment? That's all you got?
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:palm:

why must you be such a wacko at times?
 
PostmodernProphet said:
actually, I fantasized about her coming to America and becoming President instead of Bush 1.......
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Why didn't someone say so at the time? We tried all sorts to get rid of her. Free holiday's in the Falklands, an island in the sun....No. That should be an island ON the sun!
But, poor soul, didnt really understand people. She wanted to get Arthur Scargill (mineworkers leader) into the sack but went about it in the wrong way. Bit like little girls in the playground who vow hatred to the boy they most lust over!!
She did for sex what what your Palin does for polar bears!
 
Dixie said:
Reagan DIDN'T make any mistakes! You are trying to claim he wasn't perfect, and that's not hard to support... I agree, he wasn't PERFECT, no mortal man is! As for presidents, and actual presidential mistakes, Reagan was as close to perfect as it gets. The hyped up bullshit you have drummed up, should be a testament to how pathetic and stupid this argumentative line is. I mean really... his Interior Secretary appointment? That's all you got?
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Thats a pretty serious screw up. Reagan put a man in charge of all of our public lands and he turned around and said "We will mine more, drill more, cut more timber.".

He was a disaster.




If you want ignore Iran/Contra scandal as liberals making noise, that is laughable.

If you want to forgive him for his administration covering up a massacre by his "freedom fighters", that is your choice.

But this "he didn't make any mistake or have any scandals" is ridiculous.
 
Dixie said:
Wow.... Things have really hit an all-time low for pinhead liberals. Imagine, being relegated to bashing dead would-be centenarians.... life pretty much sucks, huh?

Ronald Wilson Reagan was the most popular and probably the most outstanding president of our lifetime. His conservative philosophy lives on today in the Tea Party movement, as strong as it ever was. Liberals despise Reagan for everything he stood for, which is basically, everything a liberal is NOT. It doesn't surprise me liberals have a negative view of Reagan, it does surprise me, they need to bring him up to avoid discussing the issues of the day. Oh... It would have been his 100th birthday, that's just a wonderful opportunity to bring him up and trash and bash his legacy.... right libbies? That's where your ethics and integrity are at these days, isn't it?
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Sorry Dixie, I like Ronnie a lot, I sincerly did, but despite his many character flaws Clinton has been the best President in my life time. Reagan did not lead this nation to the level of prosperity that Clinton did and Reagan was never really tested by any great crises (though neither was Clinton). The last 4 years of Clintons Presidency were the best years of my life financially and using Reagans standard of "Are you better off now or then." Clinton walks away with that one. I prospered far more under Clinton then I did Reagan. Only 4 US Presidents in my life time had to lead this nation during times of great crisis. Reagan wasn't one of them. They were Johnson Vietnam), Nixon (Vietnam, Watergate), Ford (Nixon's resignation) and Bush II (Sept 11). Three of those Presidents failed badly. Ford was the only one who managed a great national crisis admirably and paid a huge political price for it too. Personally of the Presidents in my life time I find Ford to have been the most admirable from the stand point of personal character. Considering he was a michigan grad.....you have no idea how hard that was for me to say!!
 
Yurt said:
i've seen folks as USMB laud obama like he is christ, no matter what. i've also met some in my laugh who laud clinton like he did nothing wrong and seen them on message boards....i don't doubt your experience, but i think worshippers abound on both sides.

dixie is a far, far rightwing individual, the right can do no wrong and in fact he believes i'm a left wing wacko....i don't doubt there are others like dixie, but i just don't see it on the level you have. perhaps because i live in liberal cali on the coast
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I'm not "far far right" at all. I am quite moderate and a fiscally conservative. I also don't think you are a left-wing wacko, I think you are a misguided libertarian moderate who is very easily duped by liberal propaganda, or a former 'compassionate conservative' who still thinks we need to work with liberals and try to get along. When you are posting as yourself, you seem to be fairly inline conservative with your views, very similar to my own... but when your wife or gay lover posts as you, the viewpoint is off the charts to the left. I really wish you'd set them up with their own account here, it's not that hard to do, I am sure Grind or Damo can help with that.
 
Yurt said:
i don't know of anyone who said he won the cold war single handedly, but there does appear to be many (liberals included) who believe he played a huge part....

How Reagan won the Cold War.
By Fred Kaplan

So, did Ronald Reagan bring on the end of the Cold War? Well, yes. Recently declassified documents leave no doubt about the matter.

The end of the Cold War may be the most oddball chapter in the history of the 20th century. How fitting, then, that the two most oddball leaders, Gorbachev and Reagan, made it come to pass.



http://www.slate.com/id/2102081/

click the link for more
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Reagan certainly played a significant role in ending the cold war as did all the US Presidents from Truman to George H.W. Bush. Nor can you discount the impact that world leaders like Lech Welensa, Pope John Paul II and Michael Gorbachev had in ending the cold war but there is certainly this tendency of Reagan worshipers to over state his impact. Reagan, for example, was not as significant in wining to Cold War as Truman was and that is not meant as a slight towards Reagan. Truman took a huge political hit for the containment doctrine he implmented but he stood by it as did Ike, JFK, Johnson, Nixon, Ford, Carter, Reagan and Bush I. The two biggest factors for the US winning the Cold War was #1 the consistant application of the Truman Doctrine as US policy towards Soviet expansionism for over 40 years and #2 the fact that the Soviets severly over extended their reach and their ultimate collapse was a great deal related to that over reach.
 
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